Catholic Christians... Did you know?

[Super_Sola]

If you “pray” for me, do so according as Christ taught–to the Father in Jesus Name. Anything else will not be heard by Him. And what will you pray for? I am saved by Him, and Kept by Him, and NO ONE can pluck me out of His hand! Glooooooooooory to God forver!
Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus.

 

[rtconstant]

That’s interesting–the “sacraments” are supposed to impart God’s grace, etc, but they never did for me or the thousands I saw every week at Mass. All my family members and friends were dead in trespasses and sins, and by nature children of wrath-Eph 2:1-3. We all walked according to the course of THIS WORLD, according to the spirit of disobedience. None of us knew the Lord, or loved His Holy Scriptures, nor were we reading the Bible, nor was our BIG Catholic church providing any Bibles for us. Typical Catholic policy down through history!

The sacraments are a DEAD RITUAL devoid of God and His grace, as the life of the typical Catholic PROVES. They love the world and the things of this world, and all they have is just a little dead religion tacked on. Catholicism is a PERFECT MATCH for a religious hypocrite.

It wasn’t until I began to read the Scriptures faithfully, and until I stopped listening to my priests, and listened to the “born again” Christians who kept telling me to repent and put my faith in Christ for salvation that I experienced the grace of God. The whole time I was a Catholic, I was BOUND IN SIN, unable to be free from it, free from partying, even though I knew it was wrong, i could no more stop than I could stop breathing. Until I cried out to Jesus Christ in repentance, and confessed I was wrong in trying to save myself and “be good”, that Christ filled my heart, and INSTANTLY I was delivered of sin, partying and loving this world. I now loved Jesus and His holy ways. Amazingly, I suddenly found Catholicism repugnant as well. As I studied my Bible and history, I saw what Catholicism was–an Apostasy from the truth. Rome departed from the truth into the Apostate System it now is, it is DEVOID of the truth, the Spirit of God, the Power of God, the anointing, and the grace of God. It is a dead religion. The Mass every Sunday was like a weekly funeral service and the LONGEST hour of the week!

I have a feeling this is exactly the kind of post the OP was not wanting in his thread.

 

[OHCA_XP]

Whoops, same person that I’m praying for. Well it was twice, and it was in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I’m sure God heard that nonetheless. Continue in your search for God. I admire your drive and sincerity to know our Lord. I hope you’ll keep me in your prayers as well.

 

[Dauphin]

All my family members and friends were dead in trespasses and sins, and by nature children of wrath-Eph 2:1-3. We all walked according to the course of THIS WORLD, according to the spirit of disobedience. None of us knew the Lord, or loved His Holy Scriptures, nor were we reading the Bible, nor was our BIG Catholic church providing any Bibles for us.

It’s your responsibility to purchase a Bible and read it diligently. Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ. It’s good that you can acknowledge sin and failure - it’s the first step to true contrition.

Typical Catholic policy down through history!

Which is why the Bible has always been read at Mass and religious art has always been used to communicate biblical stories? Realize that most laymen during the middle ages couldn’t read. A mass distribution of Bibles to the illiterate masses would hardly have done any good.

The sacraments are a DEAD RITUAL devoid of God and His grace, as the life of the typical Catholic PROVES. They love the world and the things of this world, and all they have is just a little dead religion tacked on.

The behavior of sinners hardly proves anything. Peter saw the miracles of Christ with his own eyes, and he still denied him thrice. We know that the sacraments are effective because Christ has told us so.

Catholicism is a PERFECT MATCH for a religious hypocrite.

We’re all hypocrites to a degree. Even if we recognize the perfect model of Christ, we’re sinners, and we’ll always fall short. That shouldn’t prevent us from preaching the truth.

It wasn’t until I began to read the Scriptures faithfully, and until I stopped listening to my priests, and listened to the “born again” Christians who kept telling me to repent and put my faith in Christ for salvation that I experienced the grace of God. The whole time I was a Catholic, I was BOUND IN SIN, unable to be free from it, free from partying, even though I knew it was wrong, i could no more stop than I could stop breathing. Until I cried out to Jesus Christ in repentance, and confessed I was wrong in trying to save myself and “be good”, that Christ filled my heart, and INSTANTLY I was delivered of sin, partying and loving this world. I now loved Jesus and His holy ways.

Yet you reject the Church. I find this account impossible to believe. Embracing Christ does not involve rejecting his church. If you had bad priests, that’s hardly a reason to abadon the faith of the apostles and martyrs.

Amazingly, I suddenly found Catholicism repugnant as well.

Sounds more like you fell for a delusion from Satan. It’s impossible that Divine Grace lead you away from the Church.

As I studied my Bible and history, I saw what Catholicism was–an Apostasy from the truth. Rome departed from the truth into the Apostate System it now is, it is DEVOID of the truth, the Spirit of God, the Power of God, the anointing, and the grace of God. It is a dead religion. The Mass every Sunday was like a weekly funeral service and the LONGEST hour of the week!

There’s not much substance here. Let’s reproduce this statement with a Catholic twist and see if you can discern how useless it is:

“As I studied my Bible and history, I saw what Protestantism was–an Apostasy from the truth. The protestant “reformers” departed from the truth into the Apostate System they now embrace, it is DEVOID of the truth, the Spirit of God, the Power of God, the anointing, and the grace of God. It is a dead religion. The Baptist Fellowship Meeting every Sunday was like a weekly funeral service and the EMPTIEST hour of the week!”

Are you getting it now? This sort of thing doesn’t help. Reasoned arguments are much more compelling.

 

[OHCA_XP]

RT: Well this is an example of what this thread is about…charity isn’t always taken into account on either side, Catholic or non-Catholic.

An important thing to remember, and I’m sure you know already, is that we’re sinners, plain and simple. We’re going to make mistakes when dealing with each other. But as Catholics, we have to maintain the charity that is often lost (again, on both sides).

 

[Dauphin]

It is a LOT MORE “charitable” than the way Rome has “proselytized” Prostestants! Crusades…

Wait… the crusades were against the protestants!? That’s a new one. I pray you’re not referring to the albigensian crusade, because the Cathars are about as far from “Bible-only” Christians as you can get, taking into account the fact that they were gnostics who rejected the Old Testament, and didn’t believe Jesus was a human being.

They’re completely unrelated to protestants. The only thing they have in common with it is that they rejected the authority of the Church and adopted it as their own.

 

[thirdn6]

Super Sola,

Aren’t you supposed to be glad you were found ahead of the others? Aren’t you supposed to bless those who are still in their journey of coming home, of those who are still under the power of sin? Does it help to condemn the Church after you “found Him”? Is that the spirit of a true Christian that’s in you?

I’m just wondering…
God bless.

---

Be angry, and sin not… Give not place to the devil.
Ephesians 4:26-27 +

 

[Super_Sola]

My “arguments” are very well “reasoned” as they are statements of FACT. Facts are quite “reasoned”. It is a FACT that as a Catholic I was bound in sin, and it is a fact that when I cried out to the Lord Jesus, not Mary, to save me from my sin, self-righteousness, and opposing the simple gospel message the “born-agains” kept telling me of, that I WAS DELIVERED from a rock n roll lifestyle and became a holy man, so much so, that my friends were in SHOCK at the change in me, and even my countenance reflected the love and mercy of Christ.

Unless the devil is now delivering people from sin, it was the Lord who set me free. I am not “searching” for Him, I have been FOUND by Him. I am His and He is mine. Glory to God who has revealed His Son in me.

 

[Super_Sola]

Dauphin, Rome has murdered MANY Protestants. As for the Albigenses-- so if they are “gnostic” its OK to murder people? I see the calloused spirit of Rome operates in your mind as well. Second, the Albigensians were HARDLY what Rome says they were.

 

[OHCA_XP]

I pray Sola you find yourself back on the road to the Catholic Church, seeing as there was only the One Church that Jesus Christ established. I’m glad that you’ve found a new desire for Sacred Scripture, but please remember it was at the efforts of the Catholic Church guided by the Holy Spirit, that you have a Holy Bible to read.

 

[OHCA_XP]

Sola, please don’t put words in Dauphin’s mouth. He never said it was okay to murder anybody. Also, this isn’t the blame game. Both Protestants and Catholics and whatever other religion have made many mistakes in the past. The point is to learn from them and not dwell on them.

 

[Tonks40]

My “arguments” are very well “reasoned” as they are statements of FACT. Facts are quite “reasoned”. It is a FACT that as a Catholic I was bound in sin, and it is a fact that when I cried out to the Lord Jesus, not Mary, to save me from my sin, self-righteousness, and opposing the simple gospel message the “born-agains” kept telling me of, that I WAS DELIVERED from a rock n roll lifestyle and became a holy man, so much so, that my friends were in SHOCK at the change in me, and even my countenance reflected the love and mercy of Christ.

Unless the devil is now delivering people from sin, it was the Lord who set me free. I am not “searching” for Him, I have been FOUND by Him. I am His and He is mine. Glory to God who has revealed His Son in me.

Praise God that you have turned your life over to Christ! I’m sure that this made a profound effect on your life.

But as one Christian to another, let me remind you of a teaching that Christ himself gave:

Matt 7:1-5
"Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye,’ while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.

FACT: You cannot judge another person’s faith journey. I cannot judge on whether or not you’ll be going to hell based on my beliefs.

FACT: We are ALL sinners.

This is why we all have faith in the Risen Lord, Jesus Christ. His promise for eternal life applies to each and everyone of us.

Please…just keep that in mind…God Bless.

 

[Dauphin]

My “arguments” are very well “reasoned” as they are statements of FACT. Facts are quite “reasoned”. It is a FACT that as a Catholic I was bound in sin, and it is a fact that when I cried out to the Lord Jesus, not Mary, to save me from my sin, self-righteousness, and opposing the simple gospel message the “born-agains” kept telling me of, that I WAS DELIVERED from a rock n roll lifestyle and became a holy man, so much so, that my friends were in SHOCK at the change in me, and even my countenance reflected the love and mercy of Christ.

Listen… this is just about the opposite of a display of holiness. Bragging about your piety and describing your own behavior in such glowing terms is precisely what Jesus preached against. I’m sure I don’t have to quote Bible verses at you, since you claim to be well versed in that book.

You’re not making any sort of reasonable argument at all. Assertions of fact are not arguments. You seem to be implying that since you were sinful while you were Catholic, that all Catholics are sinful and must repent.

It’s akin to saying because A is B in one instance, all As are B. It’s complete nonsense. Your own experience in the Church is irrelevant, It’s the objective truth, which we draw from divine revelation, that should be our starting point for discussion. If we differ on Biblical interpretation or ecclesiastical authority, then we should engage in a dialogue on those topics. Arguing about personal experience isn’t helpful.

Unless the devil is now delivering people from sin, it was the Lord who set me free. I am not “searching” for Him, I have been FOUND by Him. I am His and He is mine. Glory to God who has revealed His Son in me.

This is a delusion. Satan’s very talented at them. You may have been delivered from one type of sin, but you seem to have fallen immediately into another.

 

[Dauphin]

Dauphin, Rome has murdered MANY Protestants. As for the Albigenses-- so if they are “gnostic” its OK to murder people? I see the calloused spirit of Rome operates in your mind as well. Second, the Albigensians were HARDLY what Rome says they were.

Catholics have murdered many Protestants, and Protestants have murdered many Catholics. And yes, murder is indeed wrong.

It’s not on the behavior of sinners that the Church stands or falls. Instead, it rests on the promises of Christ to preserve His Church from error.

 

[Super_Sola]

I didn’t put words in Dauphin’s mouth. An EXCUSE was made for Rome’s murder of the innocent Albigenses because of what they believed, as if somehow, them being unorthodox made Rome’s crime more palatable. That is a Catholic attitude manifested all throughout the Dark Ages.

Second, you call Christ delivering me from sin a Satanic delusion. Only someone bound by the Devil could utter such a lie. What God has made clean NO MAN can call unclean! And then you say I am bragging about my piety? I am bragging on Christ and HIS deliverance. Why do you twist what I say? Rome has taught you well. The delusion is yours.

Tonks40:

If you read further in Matthew 7, you will see that Christ said we CAN KNOW A TREE BY ITS FRUIT. A good tree CANNOT bring forth bad fruit, nor a bad tree good fruit. And also, the Epistle of 1John was written so we could know true vs false believers–so we could judge. Foe example, John says that if someone says “I know Him” and walks in darkness LIES, and the truth is not in Him, and if someone says they know Him, yet do not obey His commandments, such a person is a liar-1John 1:1:5-7, 2:3.

Also we WERE sinners, we who truly believe the real gospel are now SAINTS, His children, partakers of the Divine Nature, and make clean and holy by the blood of Christ by faith. Christ saves us FROM our sin, not in them. He gives us a new life in Him, and in Him is no darkness at all.

 

[OHCA_XP]

Sola, you’ve hijacked this thread, and at most demonstrated the ill effects of substituting misplaced pride in the place of charity.

I’m not going to condescend, but I sincerely hope you replace what comes off to me as misinformed aggression (not stupidity) with a more open heart to the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Tonks40]

If you read further in Matthew 7, you will see that Christ said we CAN KNOW A TREE BY ITS FRUIT. A good tree CANNOT bring forth bad fruit, nor a bad tree good fruit. And also, the Epistle of 1John was written so we could know true vs false believers–so we could judge. Foe example, John says that if someone says “I know Him” and walks in darkness LIES, and the truth is not in Him, and if someone says they know Him, yet do not obey His commandments, such a person is a liar-1John 1:1:5-7, 2:3.

Also we WERE sinners, we who truly believe the real gospel are now SAINTS, His children, partakers of the Divine Nature, and make clean and holy by the blood of Christ by faith. Christ saves us FROM our sin, not in them. He gives us a new life in Him, and in Him is no darkness at all.

The point of THIS THREAD originally posted by a non-Catholic Christian is to NOT JUDGE! (please see her original post) If you want to get into a discussion of Matthew 7, then please start another thread. But before you do, learn about what the Church teaches, so that your discussions CAN be fruitful.

As to the OP - I agree - protestants are NOT dumb. And we are NOT to judge.

 

[Dauphin]

I didn’t put words in Dauphin’s mouth. An EXCUSE was made for Rome’s murder of the innocent Albigenses because of what they believed, as if somehow, them being unorthodox made Rome’s crime more palatable. That is a Catholic attitude manifested all throughout the Dark Ages.

No excuse was made for anything. I didn’t raise the issue of whether any of the crusades were justified. Instead, I questioned your assertion that crusades were launched against protestants, which the Cathars were not. You seem to have conceded that you were wrong to say that, so let’s move on.

Second, you call Christ delivering me from sin a Satanic delusion. Only someone bound by the Devil could utter such a lie. What God has made clean NO MAN can call unclean! And then you say I am bragging about my piety? I am bragging on Christ and HIS deliverance. Why do you twist what I say? Rome has taught you well. The delusion is yours.

You’ve been delivered from one sin directly into the grip of another. You can’t reject sin and reject Christ’s Church at the same time. It doesn’t work that way. Satan has devised a method of keeping you in sin while filling you with delusions that you have been “saved” by rejecting the Church. Satan will often take a sliver of truth goodness and turn it to his advantage.

If you read further in Matthew 7, you will see that Christ said we CAN KNOW A TREE BY ITS FRUIT. A good tree CANNOT bring foth bad fruit, nor a bad tree good fruit. And also, the Epistle of 1John was written so we could know true vs false believers–so we could judge. Foe example, John says that is someone says “I know Him” and walks in darkness LIES, and the truth is not in Him, and if somone says they know Him, yet do not obey His commandments, such a person is a liar-1John 1:1:5-7, 2:3.

Well, there you go! A perfect reason to obey Christ’s commands and re-enter His Holy Church.

Ultimately, your interpretation of these passages is bound to be subjective. We need to deal with the objective in scripture, not those passages which can easily be interpreted to mean whatever the reader wants.

Also we WERE sinners, we who truly believe the real gospel are now SAINTS, His children, partakers of the Divine Nature, and make clean and holy by the blood of Christ by faith. Christ saves us FROM our sin, not in them. He gives us a new life in Him, and in Him is no darkness at all.

So you’re not a sinner? You’re already saved? What if you were to murder someone tomorrow, or committ adultery? Am I to believe that you would go to heaven, or am I to believe that these things are impossible? That you are incapable of sin?

This idea just doesn’t square with reality.

 

[Super_Sola]

No excuse was made for anything. I didn’t raise the issue of whether any of the crusades were justified. Instead, I questioned your assertion that crusades were launched against protestants, which the Cathars were not. You seem to have conceded that you were wrong to say that, so let’s move on.

You DID make an excuse, albeit a lame one, citing their unOrthodoxy. Words mean things, and attitudes do shine through. Your Catholic attitude spoke loud and clear there. And the Albigensians, the Cathari were far more Christian than their murderers! John the Apostle said NO MURDERER has eternal live abiding in Him-1John 3:15, therefore the whole rotten mess, and all those involved in the Crusades and Inquisitions were wicked, lost religious hypocrites pretending to be working for the Lord, doing EVIL in His Name.

You’ve been delivered from one sin directly into the grip of another. You can’t reject sin and reject Christ’s Church at the same time. It doesn’t work that way. Satan has devised a method of keeping you in sin while filling you with delusions that you have been “saved” by rejecting the Church. Satan will often take a sliver of truth goodness and turn it to his advantage.

I see you have NO SCRIPTURE to back up your empty assertions. Only the Devil would say what you say. Your church is not Christ’s church, but that “satan” you keep bringing up. Christ demanded no denominational affiliation to be saved, but to CALL UPON HIS NAME. You are calling Him a liar. How Catholic of you.

And how Pharisaical as well, seeing your reaction is EXACTLY what theirs was when they confronted a man healed by Christ. They concluded He did it by Beelzebub. You are in sad company.

Well, there you go! A perfect reason to obey Christ’s commands and re-enter His Holy Church.

Ultimately, your interpretation of these passages is bound to be subjective. We need to deal with the objective in scripture, not those passages which can easily be interpreted to mean whatever the reader wants.

Really? And WHO decides which passages are “objective”, you? Your statements above are ALL subjective. And they are more baseless assertions. Anything the Bible says is OBJECTIVE and FACT.

So you’re not a sinner? You’re already saved? What if you were to murder someone tomorrow, or committ adultery? Am I to believe that you would go to heaven, or am I to believe that these things are impossible? That you are incapable of sin?

No murderer has eternal live abiding in him–1John 3:15. So to Hell went all the Crusaders, Popes, priest, monks, cardinals, etc that were involved in killing innocent people. Are you going to say John the Apostle is wrong and that those bloody Roman murderers did have eternal life in them while they shed the blood and stole the life of thousands of human beings?

Here is a passage for you. Let us see how “objective you are”

John:
8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son
abideth ever.
8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Romans:

6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may
abound?
6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Do you believe the above?

 

[OHCA_XP]

“In them there are some things hard to understand, that the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.” 2 Peter 3:16

Again, to stay with the topic of the thread, I don’t think you’re and idiot Sola. I just know that you alone are not the authority for Biblical interpretations. I don’t claim that authority either.

Also, the fact that we have “denominations” shows that you’re wrong. We, as Christians, are not allowed to believe whatever we want, especially if what we believe (eg doctrines) contradict themselves. Doctrines cannot contradict themselves anymore than God can cease to be God. Truth cannot be un-truth, but that’s what denominations seek to do. So before you cut and paste any more Bible passages, I suggest you find a more concrete authority of what they mean other than what you think they mean, or what your pastor think they mean, or what your denomination think they mean, because they were not given such an authority.