Catholic Church and medicinal marajuana?

[LittleSoldier]

Dan, would you please answer the following question:

Which law takes precedence, God’s Law or man’s law??

 

[Philena]

I have cancer and horrible nausea after treatment. I am going to ask my doctor about medical marijuana in pill form.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I have cancer and horrible nausea after treatment. I am going to ask my doctor about medical marijuana in pill form.

I hope you can find what helps you. You are in my prayers.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I wanted to post the same thing, but do not have the time to look up the references. You said it very well:thumbsup:

Sometimes humans are just WRONG.

You are so correct. Sometimes humans are just ** W R O N G ! !**

 

[LittleSoldier]

I just read a report today that indicates that today’s more powerful marijuana increases the chances of becoming schizophrenic sixfold. If you know anyone with this illness you’ll understand that it is a serious, dreadful mental illness for which there is no cure.

On the other hand, an alcoholic can discontinue drinking.

I think we have enough legal means of poisoning ourselves. Do we need to legalize more?

I have asked you for a link. I’ve noticed that you have been participating in other threads, yet you still have failed to provide a link.

Will you please provide it? This is my second request.

Thank you.

 

[Petergee]

I know a few of people who smoke cannabis, and none of them state that it makes them hallucinate. It merely enhances sensations beyond that of a normal state. Science backs this up by showing that ingesting THC will cause your brain to release endorphons. You can do your own experiement on this if you’d like. Get a sports drink, take a sip, It’s bland, right? Now run 20-30 minutes on a treadmill or elliptical machine. Now take a sip. It’s exceptionally flavorful and sweet. The reason is that exercise releases endorphins in your brain much like marijuana does. We don’t want to outlaw exercise do we? At any rate, small amount of THC (say, that of 1 ounce of cannabis with NATURAL levels, not the super beefed-up ones) will create the same effect as running 30 minutes on a treadmil. That is to say, how you feel after jogging 30 minutes is exactly how you would feel after one joint) I don’t know about all of you, but when I am done at the gym, I am perfectly fine to drive home, to date I have no brain damage, and my sports drinks taste as good as ever.

If you don’t mind I’d prefer to trust the findings iof medical scientists over the personal anecdotes of you and your mates.

If we, as a society can get over the social stigma of the smear campaigns run against it by scared paper mills and racist activists, we can use it to treat a wide range of illnesses.

“racist”???WTH??

I personally think that if a naturally occuring plant can be used, rather than harsh man-made industrialized chemicals, we need to be doing all we can to seek that out, rather than poisoning ourselves with highly processed chemicals because we are clinging to our social preconceptions put forth by people with greedy agendas.

A common fallacy. “natural” is not necessarily better. Usually “natural” raw plant extracts are harsher and far more dangerous of poisoning than the standardised and purified drugs obtained from such plants.

One only needs to see an opiate addict in real life (especially if it is some close to you) to know that we need better ways of pain management NOW…before more families like mine are destroyed.

Don’t confuse opiate addiction with pain relief. Addicts take opiates because they are addicted, not because they are in pain and need something to relieve it.

 

[Petergee]

So you are saying that marijuana shouldn’t be used for medical purposes??

Of course not, I said nothing of the kind.

And you are saying that “a very few health authorities have authorised the very limited therapeutic use of …chemicals in the cannabis plant?”

So why is it legal in Oregon and California? If it does no or little good, why are people that I know who are on the medical marijuana program saying it works??

Because their politicians sought the cheap populism of giving what they want to people who pushed arguments long on emotion and short on facts like yours, some of them well meaning but used as tools by those seeking to cynically exploit the physically and mentally sick and vulnerable for profit.

Are you in chronic pain? Are you going through chemotherapy? Are you a terminally ill patient dying from cancer?

I am in chronic pain.

Yes.

I can’t stand the pain sometimes. I have been on every pain medication from tylenol 2 to morphine. I have a good chance with marijuana.

Probably not, according to every scientific study done so far.

Do you think I should keep taking methadone even though it is causing (reversible) brain damage?

No. it’s not.

u know what it feels like to not be able to understand simple concepts although one has a master’s degree??

Yes I see what you mean.

Marijuana does not cause hallucinations. I never had hallucinations when I was using marijuana as a recreational drug when I was in college. I have never known of anyone who had or is having hallucinations when using marijuana.

… It is a good medication. It may save my sanity and keep me from wanting to kill myself when the pain gets so bad that all I can do is cry and writhe around on the bed and hope that the nausea will go away.
… Do you understand that people who use marijuana have managed to keep their pain under control?? I’ve spoken to these people. It has worked for them.

It works.

If you don’t mind I’d prefer to trust the findings of medical scientists over the personal anecdotes of you and your mates.

It’s not a sin to use a legal substance from a plant that God created to ease one’s agonizing pain. It’s not a sin.

You are wrong.

Neither I nor anybody else here said that it’s a sin. You are casting false accusations.

The following website is a summary of studies on medical marijuana. Research has been conducted and research is continuing to be conducted, just like for any possible medication. This website shows that marijuana is a putative useful medication for numerous medical conditions.

Yes, putative, exactly as I said.

I’m sure they would appreciate your telling them how counter-productive the use of marijuana is.

Again, I never said any such thing. Another false accusation.

 

[Petergee]

Thank you very much. I see what your are saying.​

Everything that is made up of matter is a poison. It is only the dosage that determines how bad or lethal the affect might be. Big difference though in consuming hemlock and Cannabis. Also God never makes mistakes. Everything He created has it’s purpose and we as man are to discover it’s potential. Who know’s maybe hemlock does have a benefit that we don’t know of yet and rattlesnake venom is really useful in antivenom.

My question was rhetorical. Of course God doesn’t make mistakes.

And everything He made has a purpose and Man has the right and duty to investigate the created world.

However you would have a very hard time trying to prove that EVERY one of the millions of different kinds of animals, plants and substances has some particular useful purpose IN MAN. You also might want to think again about the logic of “God made rattlesnake venom to help us because it enables us to produce rattlesnake antivenom as an antidote for rattlesnake venom.”

 

[stringbeanduck]

Probably not, according to every scientific study done so far.

That’s quite false. Science does show there are good benefites of marijuana so your every scientific study done so far flies right out the window there. Furthermore I warn you about discouraging other’s from investigating medicine that might help thier condition. Human life is sacred and we must be carful what we tell each other.

My question was rhetorical. Of course God doesn’t make mistakes.

And everything He made has a purpose and Man has the right and duty to investigate the created world.

However you would have a very hard time trying to prove that EVERY one of the millions of different kinds of animals, plants and substances has some particular useful purpose IN MAN. You also might want to think again about the logic of “God made rattlesnake venom to help us because it enables us to produce rattlesnake antivenom as an antidote for rattlesnake venom.”

Hard time? So what we give up and not look the potential? BTW that’s not an accusation to imply what you are saying, but a question, hence the question mark. Would if God already designed a cure for ALS, that’s in a rare species of plant we know little about? I’m not into the study of God’s creation to prove what every plant and animal can do in man. But if say a plant, like marijuana, has therapeutic properties, then that should be investigated.

Also you might want to think again about implying that I am using the logic: “God made rattlesnake venom to help us because it enables us to produce rattlesnake antivenin as an antidote for rattlesnake venom.”

No where in my post did say that. What I did say is that rattlesnake venom is useful for creating antivenin. Not that our God created it for the purpose of making anti-venom.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Of course not, I said nothing of the kind.

Hence, my question. I was trying to determine what your position on this subject is.

Because their politicians sought the cheap populism of giving what they want to people who pushed arguments long on emotion and short on facts like yours, some of them well meaning but used as tools by those seeking to cynically exploit the physically and mentally sick and vulnerable for profit. Yes. Probably not, according to every scientific study done so far. No. it’s not.

So provide links or references to every scientific study done so far.

If you don’t mind I’d prefer to trust the findings of medical scientists over the personal anecdotes of you and your mates.

I don’t mind at all. What I do mind is that you don’t bother providing references.

Neither I nor anybody else here said that it’s a sin. You are casting false accusations.

You stated this (in Post 56):

"The use of Cannabis is particularly sinful because, like LSD, it is an hallucinogen." [bolding mine]

You are stating that the use of Cannabis is particularly sinful. It is not an unfounded accusation.

Yes, putative, exactly as I said.

Agreed.

Of course you never provided any links to back up your claims. Why should I believe you?? Either provide scientific evidence to back up your claims or discontinue making such claims.

Again, I never said any such thing. Another false accusation.

I believed it was implied in your post. I misread it and I apologize.

In Post 57 you stated the following:

“In PoA[sic] very few health authories[sic] have authorised the very limited experimental therapeutic use of highly purified and standardised extracts of one or two of the dozens of biologically active chemicals in the cannabis plant. The question of whether these preparations do any good at all is still being investigated. No health authority that I know of has endorsed the so-called “therapeutic” use of cannabis as such.”

Of course you never provided any links to back up your claims. Yet we are supposed to believe what you say. Either provide scientific evidence to back up your claims or discontinue making such claims.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using anecdotal evidence - its invalidity is questioned by persons who are not well educated in research methodology and statistical analysis. I have provided both anecdotall evidence and scientific evidence (see Post 59). You appear to claim that you have more.

So provide it!!

 

[LittleSoldier]

My question was rhetorical. Of course God doesn’t make mistakes.

And everything He made has a purpose and Man has the right and duty to investigate the created world.

However you would have a very hard time trying to prove that EVERY one of the millions of different kinds of animals, plants and substances has some particular useful purpose IN MAN. You also might want to think again about the logic of “God made rattlesnake venom to help us because it enables us to produce rattlesnake antivenom as an antidote for rattlesnake venom.”

Would you please provide the post number where the poster (I believe it was Stringbeanduck) made the statement: “God made rattlesnake venom to help us because it enables us to produce rattlesnake antivenom as an antidote for rattlesnake venom?”

I can’t find this quote in any post. Thank you.

 

[LittleSoldier]

If you don’t mind I’d prefer to trust the findings iof medical scientists over the personal anecdotes of you and your mates.

So far I haven’t seen any findings of medical scientists. It would be nice if you would provide references to scientific studies. So far you have failed to do so.

A common fallacy. “natural” is not necessarily better. Usually “natural” raw plant extracts are harsher and far more dangerous of poisoning than the standardised and purified drugs obtained from such plants.

Please provide scientific evidence to back up your claim.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Don’t confuse opiate addiction with pain relief. Addicts take opiates because they are addicted, not because they are in pain and need something to relieve it.

Then I am an opiate addict because after taking it for several years (for pain relief), I have found it extremely difficult to give up. I have managed to cut my dosage dramatically but I can’t get off the opiates completely.

So, I am an addict and I use opiates for pain relief. Sometimes the two go hand in hand.

 

[Petergee]

I warn you about discouraging other’s from investigating medicine that might help thier condition. Human life is sacred and we must be carful what we tell each other.

You “warn” me. Oh dear. I did not discourage anyone from investigating medicine that might help his condition.

What I did say is that rattlesnake venom is useful for creating antivenin. Not that our God created it for the purpose of making anti-venom.

Indeed, useful for creating antivenin TO RATTLESNAKE VENOM. Not to anything else. If the usefulness of something is confined to the possibility of its being used as a basis to create an antidote to its own chief effect of causing death, pardon me for not thinking that it’s particularly useful.

 

[Petergee]

Hence, my question. I was trying to determine what your position on this subject is.

So provide links or references to every scientific study done so far.

I don’t mind at all. What I do mind is that you don’t bother providing references.

I will just as soon as I can work out what it is you disagree with me about what the science is. You said that you agreed with me that science has found only putative therapeutic effects of some cannabis constituents. Yet for some reason you keep rudely telling me that I’m wrong and making false accusations about me.

You stated this (in Post 56):

"The use of Cannabis is particularly sinful because, like LSD, it is an hallucinogen." [bolding mine]

Indeed. If you think that is the same thing as saying
" It’s a sin to use a legal substance from a plant that God created to ease one’s agonizing pain." then you are wrong as well as uncharitable.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using anecdotal evidence - its invalidity is questioned by persons who are not well educated in research methodology and statistical analysis.

LOL. I would like to meet one scientist who would agree with that claim. As the scientific taw goes, “the plural of anecdote is not data”.

 

[Petergee]

Then I am an opiate addict because after taking it for several years (for pain relief), I have found it extremely difficult to give up. I have managed to cut my dosage dramatically but I can’t get off the opiates completely.

So, I am an addict and I use opiates for pain relief. Sometimes the two go hand in hand.

Indeed. That doesn’t mean that they are the same thing.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Probably not, according to every scientific study done so far.

You “warn” me. Oh dear. I did not discourage anyone from investigating medicine that might help his condition.

Indeed, useful for creating antivenin TO RATTLESNAKE VENOM. Not to anything else. If the usefulness of something is confined to the possibility of its being used as a basis to create an antidote to its own chief effect of causing death, pardon me for not thinking that it’s particularly useful.

Your comparing apples and oranges here. I’m talking about usefulness with in specific regards to creating antivenin and you’re talking about it like I’m saying it to be useful over all. Whether rattlesnake venom causes death is moot, the fact remains that it has a use in making it’s own antivenin. When did I say rattlesnake venom was useful for anything else?

Look at the statement above at the top. When you say probably not, you are discouraging him from using marijuana. If you said, “I think it’s a good idea that I go out and drive, it might help me.” and I responded, “Probably not.” That would indeed be a discouragement from driving. You don’t have to tell someone specifically not to do something for it be a discouragement. Let’s ask him. Little Soldier. when you read the phrase “Probably not, according to every scientific study done so far” do you get the feeling those words are discouraging about using marijuana, encouraging about using marijuana, or indifferent about using marijuana?

 

[spn82756]

One of many interesting articles on its medical use:

msnbc.msn.com/id/15145917

 

[Sushi]

I’m not sure what the Catholic Church teaches on this. I do believe that if you’re using it for medical benefits and not just for “getting stoned” that it’s okay.

 

[StillWondering]

Alcohol is a drug. So, its use, according to this is a grave offense. Do you accept this? It is pretty black and white.

Note the quote says " drug use". You need to know what it means by this. It means abusing drugs. The document is written for a worldwide audience. So I can understand the subtlety of the language being a problem. But basically that is what it is talking about. Using drugs for purposes that are meant to hamper one’s mind and get a high are under this category. So yes, if you use alcohol as an intoxicating escape, it would be included.