Catholic Church in Spain fights Franco-era image

[LemonAndLime]

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11698387

Just inside the ancient city walls of Toledo, the church of Santiago el Mayor is still busy on Sundays.

Whilst one priest says Mass, another hears confession in a booth at the back. There are several services in a row but the congregation is shrinking, even in this former bastion of Spanish Catholicism.

One priest estimates that only around 10% of his parishioners attend Mass regularly now. The national average is 14.4%.

It is one indication of the state of the Church here, as Pope Benedict XVI arrives for his second visit since taking office.

Following a pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela, he will consecrate the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona, Anton Gaudi’s famous unfinished work.

The Church in Spain has largely escaped the sexual abuse scandals that caused so much damage in Ireland, America and elsewhere but it is facing its own set of challenges.

For four decades, the Church was closely allied with General Franco’s dictatorship.

After the transition, many Spaniards turned away as democracy and secularism became synonymous.

 

[JW10631]

Did the article mention the savage brutality delivered by the Republicans to the Church during the Spanish Civil War?

Zapatero would have been a Spanish Republican’s dream. Spain has been infected with the same secularism that has infected the rest of Western Europe. It’s very easy to blame religion for all the world’s problems. The Enlightenment has held that as one of its core beliefs for centuries.

Spain should remember its history from a little farther back say, the year 711. The Muslims were worse suppressors than Franco.

 

[OriginalJS]

The church profited greatly from its alliance with Franco and it still has great perks in Spain. Franco’s regime is a nightmarish memory and it will be difficult for the church to shed the public association. The response to the recent papal visit shows the church has a long way to go in Spain with many.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

The church profited greatly from its alliance with Franco and it still has great perks in Spain. Franco’s regime is a nightmarish memory and it will be difficult for the church to shed the public association. The response to the recent papal visit shows the church has a long way to go in Spain with many.

Is it not disinviting to see so many photos of Catholic clerics in the Franco era and even beyond with their right arm extended in the fascist salute? How could Catholic priests and bishops have embraced fascism, so inimical to our Catholic faith?

 

[nguirado]

What was so nightmarish about Franco? He was a dictator, but he wasn’t a Hitler, Castro, Stalin, Pot, etc.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

What was so nightmarish about Franco? He was a dictator, but he wasn’t a Hitler, Castro, Stalin, Pot, etc.

Not a monster like them, only a demi-monster. I see.

 

[estesbob]

Is it not disinviting to see so many photos of Catholic clerics in the Franco era and even beyond with their right arm extended in the fascist salute? How could Catholic priests and bishops have embraced fascism, so inimical to our Catholic faith?

The same way so many Catholics embrace pro-abortion politicians who are inimical to our Catholic faith. It is not unusual for people to jettison their faith in favor their political beliefs. You see it in CAF on a daily basis.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

The same way so many Catholics embrace pro-abortion politicians who are inimical to our Catholic faith. It is not unusual for people to jettison their faith in favor their political beliefs. You see it in CAF on a daily basis.

A very valid point.

But you’re still likely to get static from those who see Franco as some sort of Catholic hero.

 

[nguirado]

I see him neither positively or negatively. You may be repeating leftist propaganda.

 

[Brendan]

Not a monster like them, only a demi-monster. I see.

If the alternative was the Spanish Republicans, the Church (and Spain) made the correct choice.

 

[curlycool89]

If the alternative was the Spanish Republicans, the Church (and Spain) made the correct choice.

Because a choice between 2 power-mad dictator’s is always fun

 

[Holly3278]

This is so sad. But what makes me really angry is the fact that a bunch of homosexual activists decided to kiss when His Holiness Benedict XVI arrived on scene!!!

 

[OriginalJS]

It seems the thread has gone off track. The church is fighting the Franco-Era image precisely because it is so bad and the church profited greatly by cooperating; this is in contrast to the resistance to totalitarianism offered by the church in eastern bloc countries like Poland.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

It seems the thread has gone off track. The church is fighting the Franco-Era image precisely because it is so bad and the church profited greatly by cooperating; this is in contrast to the resistance to totalitarianism offered by the church in eastern bloc countries like Poland.

Just so. The Church in Poland is vigorous and thriving, and can look back at its history since the end of WWII regarding its dealings with totalitarianism with pride, as can all Polish Catholics. Spain got what it deserved for cozying up uncritically to a dictator - a faltering Church, diminishing numbers of congregants, and a lack of respect for the Church.

The contrast couldn’t be any clearer.

 

[inocente]

The Spanish are very family oriented, have had democracy for less than 30 years and love personal freedom. Three quarters of the population identify themselves as Catholic, they reverently take part in solemn processions in Holy Week, virtually all the fiestas are based on Saint’s Days, and they uphold Christian values as well as any. The tiny local church out here in the middle of nowhere has just been lovingly restored at great cost to the village.

I’m neither Spanish by birth nor a Catholic, and my friends seem fine with Catholicism but not with the Church if that makes any sense. They don’t necessarily directly associate the Church with Franco (only grandparents remember him firsthand, and they prefer to change the subject), but increasing see it as part of an irrelevant past era.

Meanwhile the Church here seems unable or unwilling to reassert itself, and somehow manages to turn Benedict’s positive messages into a negative, dry book of rules. The Spanish have their faults but if Mother Knows Best is the only game in town then I can’t really blame some of them for being attracted by the bright lights of secularism. Anyone with an answer should email the Vatican sooner rather than later.

 

[John_Pascendi]

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11698387

Just inside the ancient city walls of Toledo, the church of Santiago el Mayor is still busy on Sundays.

Whilst one priest says Mass, another hears confession in a booth at the back. There are several services in a row but the congregation is shrinking, even in this former bastion of Spanish Catholicism.

One priest estimates that only around 10% of his parishioners attend Mass regularly now. The national average is 14.4%.

It is one indication of the state of the Church here, as Pope Benedict XVI arrives for his second visit since taking office.

Following a pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela, he will consecrate the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona, Anton Gaudi’s famous unfinished work.

The Church in Spain has largely escaped the sexual abuse scandals that caused so much damage in Ireland, America and elsewhere but it is facing its own set of challenges.

For four decades, the Church was closely allied with General Franco’s dictatorship.

After the transition, many Spaniards turned away as democracy and secularism became synonymous.

Spain was invaded by communist forces in the late 1930s and this attack was glorified in hollywood as it always does when the reds win.Spain has never been the same since Franco was dethroned for a red dictatorship. It was neutral during ww2 and never fought against Hitler and his left wing goons and has suffered since. The same wording as in the above is used against Battista…of cuba…golly what a bad man.but cuba one could leave when one wanted but when the tolerant ones took over cuba one could only leave this island paradise on a raft and under gunfire and stress…as Elians mom found out!!!

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Spain was invaded by communist forces in the late 1930s and this attack was glorified in hollywood as it always does when the reds win.

What movie or movies glorified the Republican side in the Spanish Civil War? Name one.

Spain has never been the same since Franco was dethroned for a red dictatorship.

There was NO Communist dictatorship in Spain following Franco’s death. He died, he wasn’t de-throned. He wasn’t king of Spain, unless only in his own fascist mind.

It was neutral during ww2 and never fought against Hitler and his left wing goons

Instead of fighting Hitler, Franco sent an army to fight against one of our most valuable allies!

and has suffered since.

If so, the Spaniards brought it on themselves.

 

[michael_john_ch]

Many people seem to hate Franco because he used the Devil the Nazi regime; which is hard to do; he won the civil war and stop Spain from coming a Communist country. The Popular Front did the same using the devil Communist Russian Stalin. The Popular Front funded by Russia destroyed churches, raped nuns and murdered them with priests and you asked why the Spanish Catholic Church found Franco a friend. The Liberal Media denounced Franco but said nothing of the Popular Front.

 

[curlycool89]

Many people seem to hate Franco because he used the Devil the Nazi regime; which is hard to do; he won the civil war and stop Spain from coming a Communist country. The Popular Front did the same using the devil Communist Russian Stalin. The Popular Front funded by Russia destroyed churches, raped nuns and murdered them with priests and you asked why the Spanish Catholic Church found Franco a friend. The Liberal Media denounced Franco but said nothing of the Popular Front.

No, it’s more the fact that he was a fascist oppressive dictator. It doesn’t matter which “side” he came from. An oppressive dictator is an oppressive dictator is an oppressive dictator, whether they’re communist or fascist.

It’s always surprising to see Americans defend a dictator, since the entire point of America was to be a country free from old-world monarchies, aristocracies, and oligarchies.

 

[nguirado]

What made Franco a fascist? Remember that the Soviets called anybody who wasn’t their brand of communism a fascist (even Trotsky).