Catholic Church is a target for al-Qaeda

[gilliam]

A message on an Islamic forum associated with al-Qaeda, identifies the Pope and the Vatican as an integral part of the West’s war on Islamic terrorism which means that the Catholic Church and Vatican City are targets for jihadists.

hat tip

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

One of the principles that should guide Catholics in our relationship with our Muslim brothers and sisters is the following statement of Vatican II:

**“Although in the course of the centuries many quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Muslims, this most sacred Synod urges all to forget the past and to strive sincerely for mutual understanding. On behalf of all mankind, let them make common cause of safeguarding and fostering social justice, moral values, peace, and freedom” (Nostra aetate, section 3).

In addition to concentrating on working with Muslims for peace, we should try to gain their active assistance in the fight against abortion and the legalization of same-sex unions.

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[geezerbob]

Steve O'Brien:

In addition to concentrating on working with Muslims for peace, we should try to gain their active assistance in the fight against abortion and the legalization of same-sex unions.

Keep and spread the Faith.

Wanna add fanatic bombers to that list?

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

geezerbob:

Wanna add fanatic bombers to that list?

“Working for peace” covers both anti-war and anti-terrorism activities.

By the way, an unjust war is also a form of terrorism–state terrorism.

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[Franze]

The message was written by a laicist spanish who was detained now. He is 40 years old and wrote the message from the a public organism in Catalonia( Spain)

 

[Brad]

Steve O'Brien:

One of the principles that should guide Catholics in our relationship with our Muslim brothers and sisters is the following statement of Vatican II:

***“Although in the course of the centuries many quarrels and hostilities have arisen between Christians and Muslims, this most sacred Synod urges all to forget the past and to strive sincerely for mutual understanding. On behalf of all mankind, let them make common cause of safeguarding and fostering social justice, moral values, peace, and freedom” (*Nostra aetate, section 3).

In addition to concentrating on working with Muslims for peace, we should try to gain their active assistance in the fight against abortion and the legalization of same-sex unions.

Keep and spread the Faith.

Great! Do you mind handing that document to the Islamic extremists? Let me know how it turns out. Thanks!

 

[Brad]

I guess we’d have a pretty good indication of sheeps and wolves were this to happen.

 

[Fitz]

“Working for peace” covers both anti-war and anti-terrorism activities.

By the way, an unjust war is also a form of terrorism–state terrorism.

Keep and spread the Faith.

So you think anti war activities are noble? I think many of the anti war activities are renegade, like Cindy Sheehan’s circus in Texas. It is a collection radical and extreme groups, most of which are definitely anti Catholic or anti Christian in practice.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

Fitz:

So you think anti war activities are noble? I think many of the anti war activities are renegade, like Cindy Sheehan’s circus in Texas. It is a collection radical and extreme groups, most of which are definitely anti Catholic or anti Christian in practice.

As a member of the radical and extreme group that published the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I don’t think, but know, that anti-war activities (like anti-abortion and anti-terrorism activities) are noble:

**“All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 2308).

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[gilliam]

Steve O'Brien:

As a member of the radical and extreme group that published the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I don’t think, but know, that anti-war activities (like anti-abortion and anti-terrorism activities) are noble:

***“All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war” (*Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 2308).

Keep and spread the Faith.

You should also know that the civil authority has the responsibility to protect their citizens

2321 The prohibition of murder does not abrogate the right to render an unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm.** Legitimate defense is a grave duty for whoever is responsible for the lives of others or the common good. **

[2310](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2310.htm’) Public authorities, in this case, have the right and duty to impose on citizens the obligations necessary for national defense. Those who are sworn to serve their country in the armed forces are servants of the security and freedom of nations. If they carry out their duty honorably, they truly contribute to the common good of the nation and the maintenance of peace.107

.

 

[Fitz]

Steve O'Brien:

As a member of the radical and extreme group that published the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I don’t think, but know, that anti-war activities (like anti-abortion and anti-terrorism activities) are noble:

***“All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war” (*Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 2308).

Keep and spread the Faith.

The anti war groups in Crawford Texas don’t have the right to life in mind. Of course I am prolife and anti terrorist!

 

[Brad]

Steve O'Brien:

As a member of the radical and extreme group that published the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I don’t think, but know, that anti-war activities (like anti-abortion and anti-terrorism activities) are noble:

***“All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war” (*Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 2308).

Keep and spread the Faith.

Avoidance of war: noble and correct.

Anti-war: Illogical and irrational.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

gilliam:

You should also know that the civil authority has the responsibility to protect their citizens

2321 The prohibition of murder does not abrogate the right to render an unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm.** Legitimate defense is a grave duty for whoever is responsible for the lives of others or the common good. **

[2310](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2310.htm’) Public authorities, in this case, have the right and duty to impose on citizens the obligations necessary for national defense. Those who are sworn to serve their country in the armed forces are servants of the security and freedom of nations. If they carry out their duty honorably, they truly contribute to the common good of the nation and the maintenance of peace.107.

Gilliam should be commended for citing the Catechism of the Catholic Church This is something that few pro-war Catholics do. Still, Gilliam’s citations reflect the fact that the Church allows only ***defensive * ** warfare as ethically justifiable. The U.S. incursion into Iraq had nothing to do with defense, for Iraq neither attacked us nor threatened to do so. Further, President Bush himself admitted that there’s no evidence connecting Saddam Hussein’s government with 9/11:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3118262.stm

Thanks, Gilliam! Let’s have more citations from the new catechism, papal encyclicals, Vatican II documents, and other statements of the Magisterium. After all, this is a Catholic forum.

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

Brad:

Avoidance of war: noble and correct.

Anti-war: Illogical and irrational.

Avoidance of smoking and lung cancer: nobel and correct.

Anti-smoking and anti-lung cancer: illogical and irrational.

Granted, the Church allows ***defensive * ** and ***protective * ** military action, so the analogy isn’t perfect. But the Magisterium is so terrified of the murderous destructive capability of modern conventional weapons and, above all, of nuclear weapons that it doesn’t hesitate to teach categorically and emphatically as follows:

**“All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 2308).

I wish to listen to the Church. It is Christ who is speaking through her (*Lk * 10:16).

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Steve O'Brien:

Gilliam should be commended for citing the Catechism of the Catholic Church This is something that few pro-war Catholics do.

He is, we do, but many of the anti-war Catholics on this forum don’t pay any attention.
Steve O'Brien:

Still, Gilliam’s citations reflect the fact that the Church allows only ***defensive ***warfare as ethically justifiable.

So now you are going to give us your definition of ‘defensive’?
Steve O'Brien:

The U.S. incursion into Iraq had nothing to do with defense, for Iraq neither attacked us nor threatened to do so.

There you go. Case closed. You were given a long list of links demonstrating the link between Al Qu’eda and Saddam Hussein. Yet you do not even afford us the courtesy of referring to those links in any manner at all let alone a systematic manner. You just ignore us.
Steve O'Brien:

Thanks, Gilliam!

And thanks to you Steve for showing us your hand which appears to be empty.

 

[Brad]

Steve O'Brien:

Gilliam should be commended for citing the Catechism of the Catholic Church This is something that few pro-war Catholics do. .

You apprently do not hang out with the same Catholics as I do.

 

[Brad]

Steve O'Brien:

Avoidance of smoking and lung cancer: nobel and correct.

Anti-smoking and anti-lung cancer: illogical and irrational.

Throughout the course of history, nations have been attacked and wiped off the planet. Some have defended themselves (engaged in war), while others are no longer around.

Throughout the course of hisotry, noone has ever been forced to defend themselves from a cigarette.
Steve O'Brien:

Granted, the Church allows ***defensive *** and ***protective *** military action, so the analogy isn’t perfect. But the Magisterium is so terrified of the murderous destructive capability of modern conventional weapons and, above all, of nuclear weapons that it doesn’t hesitate to teach categorically and emphatically as follows:

***“All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war” (*Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 2308).

I wish to listen to the Church. It is Christ who is speaking through her (*Lk * 10:16).

Keep and spread the Faith.

I completely agree with the Church in these statements. I don’t understand why you think that those that support the Iraq war cannot also support these statements.

 

[Steve_O_Brien]

Brad:

I completely agree with the Church in these statements. I don’t understand why you think that those that support the Iraq war cannot also support these statements.

American Catholics who disagree with the opposition of Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger to the U.S. invasion of Iraq may say that they accept the Church’s anti-war and pro-peace premises as set forth in sections 2302-2330 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and (in a more developed manner) in sections 77-90 of Vatican II’s Gaudium et spes. Nevertheless, those Catholics are not drawing a necessary conclusion from those premises.

Logically, there’s a contradiction in saying that one is for peace while defending a war of aggression. True, the injustice of the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq is not a Catholic dogma, but it’s still necessary for Catholics to draw correct practical conclusions from general moral principles.

Please remember that every act of conventional warfare is now a possible spark igniting a nuclear conflagration. The Church, speaking in the name of Christ and imploring the intercession of his Mother, the Queen of Peace, is trying to avert this horror. Let’s help the Church in this urgent endeavor.

One reason for pro-war sentiment among American Catholics is the failure to make the imperative distinction between the virtue of *patriotism * and the vice of jingoism. As the new catechism warns us, “Caesar is not ‘the Lord’” (section 450).

(In post my post #14, “nobel” should be “noble.” As on another forum where I hang out, we should be able to edit our posts indefinitely to counteract the Devil’s typo mischief.)

Keep and spread the Faith.

 

[Fitz]

Steve O'Brien:

Logically, there’s a contradiction in saying that one is for peace while defending a war of aggression.

I don’t agree that it is a war of agression. We are not fighting the Iraqi people. We are working closely with them to give them back their country. Any civilian casualties have been unfortunate and terrible accidents. Many of these have been caused by the insurgents who often are fighters from outside of Iraq.

 

[Matt25]

Fitz:

So you think anti war activities are noble? I think many of the anti war activities are renegade, like Cindy Sheehan’s circus in Texas. It is a collection radical and extreme groups, most of which are definitely anti Catholic or anti Christian in practice.

The Catechism on anti-war activists **[

2311

](http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3EpenWindow%28%27cr/2311.htm%27%29 Public authorities should make equitable provision for those who for reasons of conscience refuse to bear arms; these are nonetheless obliged to serve the human community in some other way**%between%**

**And Gaudium et Spes osjspm.org/cst/gs2.htm

For this reason, all Christians are urgently summoned to do in love what the truth requires, and to join with all true peacemakers in pleading for peace and bringing it about.

Motivated by this same spirit, we cannot fail to praise those who renounce the use of violence in the vindication of their rights and who resort to methods of defense which are otherwise available to weaker parties too, provided this can be done without injury to the rights and duties of others or of the community itself.

Insofar as men are sinful, the threat of war hangs over them, and hang over them it will until the return of Christ. But insofar as men vanquish sin by a union of love, they will vanquish violence as well and make these words come true: “They shall turn their swords into plough-shares, and their spears into sickles. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more” (Isaias 2:4).