Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

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Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible
By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent
THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.

The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture.

See link for the rest of the story…

timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article574768.ece

So the Catholic Church now claims the Bible is not true?
 
Is that what they said? No. Not even in the quotes you provide is that what was being said.

The Bible is true. The Catholic Church has always believed it to be true. Parts of it may not be historically or scientifically accurate. This is not new.

Furthermore, beware of secular United Kingdom online periodical prejudices.
 
Where is this document and is there a Vatican response to it?
 
Is that what they said? No. Not even in the quotes you provide is that what was being said.

The Bible is true. The Catholic Church has always believed it to be true. Parts of it may not be historically or scientifically accurate. This is not new.

Furthermore, beware of secular United Kingdom online periodical prejudices.
By the way thanks for response…

I posted a question about The Gift of the Scripture both here and at the ask an apologist. I got 27 views and 1 response. But as soon as I made it look like I might be blasting the Church I get action.

What a surprise…
 
To teach that the bible is accurate in timeline and topography is a diservice to Truth. Not to say that those inaccuracies don’t seve a good purpose in revealing Truth but only to say that their purpose is not to be historically accurate.
 
When I started high school in 1965, Mother Bernard told us the Bible is a literary form. It’s a book of truths, not a book of facts.

Like someone else mentioned, this isn’t exactly a new idea.
 
Augustine himself discouraged a strictly literal interpretation of the Bible. And Aquinas was probably the most important proponent of Natural Theology. This is just a misunderstanding.

Quoted from the article: We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,”

This story is about 1900 years too late. This has always been the position of the Church.
 
The strange case of Mssr. Abelard Reuchelin and his deduction that…

Christianity is a Hoax

“the New Testament, the Church, and Christianity, were all the creation of the Calpurnius Piso family, who were Roman aristocrats. The New Testament and all the characters in it…are all fictional.” And so begins one of the most amazing little pamphlets that I’ve come across in many an aeon. Its conclusions, if true, are astounding, for they shake the foundations of history and make a mockery of the wits and intellects of a great host of epoch bending sages, philosophers, and theologians. Thus the gospel according to one Abelard Reuchelin, an earnest researcher of historic genealogies who specialized in ancient families. he began to zero in on one family in particular, the Piso family of Roman Patricians, who dominated the Roman aristocracy over several generations, producing caesars, consuls, generals, statesmen, philosophers, historians, scholars and bishops of the early Church. blood and marriage relations within the Piso family included Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Suetonius, Trajan, Vitellius, Vespasian, Julius Caesar’s uncle Lucius Piso, Galba Caesar, and on and on. Rome was essentially ruled by the same tribe directly for over two hundred years, and indirectly via the Church up to the present.
 
By the way thanks for response…

I posted a question about The Gift of the Scripture both here and at the ask an apologist. I got 27 views and 1 response. But as soon as I made it look like I might be blasting the Church I get action.

What a surprise…
As it stands, this thread has got 7 replies and 8 views. I don’t know what you are talking about with the 27 views and 1 reply. Was that a different posting altogether? Ask The Apologist is not always answered and IF it is, it’s not necessarily immediate. ALSO, the views are the people who have clicked on it, not people who have scrolled over to get the, “gist,” of the thread.

Good question as to where is the doccument. Perhaps asking the UK Times will show you their source.
 
This is nice and all but not what I am looking for.

Has anyone here read the document? If so what does it say?

(No I have not read yet, I ordered one it is on its way)

Has the Vatican responded to the document or the report?

Have the Bishops responded to the report?

Is this a valid document?

These are the questions I am asking. I know the report is from a secular news rag. I was just using it to get any kind of response. Sorry I did it that way, but useless you post something to stir people up around here you get ignored.

And yes I have read Jimmy Akins article. However it addresses the report and the reporter not the document.
 
As it stands, this thread has got 7 replies and 8 views. I don’t know what you are talking about with the 27 views and 1 reply. Was that a different posting altogether? Ask The Apologist is not always answered and IF it is, it’s not necessarily immediate. ALSO, the views are the people who have clicked on it, not people who have scrolled over to get the, “gist,” of the thread.

Good question as to where is the doccument. Perhaps asking the UK Times will show you their source.
It was a different thread

I have never gotten a response to anything ask at the Ask The Apologist. I am sure they thousand a day.

I know how the views work. As I said it seem unless you blast away no one turns their heads.

The report is some two old I dout many of the folks at the UK Times can remember that far back.
 
When I started high school in 1965, Mother Bernard told us the Bible is a literary form. It’s a book of truths, not a book of facts.

Like someone else mentioned, this isn’t exactly a new idea.
Brilliant!

I also heard that the bible isn’t a book, its a library.
 
The Bible is what a friend of mine told a few years ago. The Bible is your Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. It is life’s manual to everything. Any questions and answers are found it the Bible which, just isn’t a book. It is so much more
 
Well, I found (if you look up the Clifton archdiocese in the UK) that supposedly the bishops of England, Scotland and Wales issued a TEACHING document or were going to issue the document.

First, I haven’t seen the document. While it may exist (or may still be in the planning stages, it isn’t quite clear), if it does exist, I haven’t seen it on the official UK Catholic websites (which one would expect to do) and the only reference I saw was that a copy was available for a fee.

Second, even if there is a document (such as the ones our own U.S. Bishops issue for teaching purposes) those still do not equate to The Catholic Church.

We all know how the secular media can muck up words. If the words are at all ambiguous, highly nuanced, or esoteric. . .they are going to be mangled even more.

If the bishops said, as one person quoted, “We are not meant to find full scientific accuracy” SO WHAT???

Not finding “full scientific accuracy” does not mean (as some appear to think) that whatever is found is INACCURATE.

When I was taking 3rd grade science, did my textbook go into 'full scientific accuracy about chromosomes? Heck, no. Check out the college and post grade biology courses, and what you learn about chromosomes is far more full and accurate. . .but what you learn in 3rd grade IS SCIENTIFICALLY ACCURATE to the level an 8 year old understands.

Or take, for example, the medieval (and indeed the classic antiquity GrecoRoman) theory that the body temperment was composed of 4 ‘humours’ or fluids, and that a person was governed ‘more’ by one or two, thus a person could be phlegmatic, choleric, melancholic, etc.

For THE TIME, the SCIENTIFIC ACCURACY was unquestioned. But was it full? Was it ‘accurate’ according to what we know in AD 2008? Would it have been accurate if it had been put forth in 2008 BC???

And above all. . .IS the Bible MEANT TO BE 'scientifically accurate?? Or it is meant to be true. . .with ‘true’ not necessarily expressing the science of ‘today’ yet still being true?

Just you wait until 100 years from now some great scientific discovery is made about, say, how the pancreas functions. And just you wait until they start going through all the literature and medical treatment etc. regarding diabetes and pancreatic cancer–IN THE LIGHT OF THE NEW KNOWLEDGE.

They’ll say, “Good gravy–these people were quacks. They were imbeciles. How could they NOT have seen what the REAL cause of the diseases were, now that WE know them? How could they speak of diabetes and pancreatic cancer the way they did? Wrong, wrong, wrong.”

Same kind of mushy thinking here. . .that because the Bible doesn’t speak specifically that “Lo–ye earth moves around ye sun in a spherical form of ye ellipse, and ye sun does not REALLY move even though ye psalms speak of it 'rising and setting, forsooth”. . .oh murgatroyd, the Bible is not FULLY SCIENTIFICALLY ACCURATE
 
Well, I found (if you look up the Clifton archdiocese in the UK) that supposedly the bishops of England, Scotland and Wales issued a **teaching **document or were going to issue the document.

First, I haven’t seen the document. While it may exist (or may still be in the planning stages, it isn’t quite clear), if it does exist, I haven’t seen it on the official UK Catholic websites (which one would expect to do) and the only reference I saw was that a copy was available for a fee.

Second, even if there is a document (such as the ones our own U.S. Bishops issue for teaching purposes) those still do not equate to The Catholic Church has infallibly proclaimed that the Bible is not true.

Not by a long shot.

We all know how the secular media can muck up words. If the words are at all ambiguous, highly nuanced, or esoteric. . .they are going to be mangled even more.

If the bishops said, as one person quoted, "We are not meant to find full scientific accuracy"in the Bible – So what???

Not finding “full scientific accuracy” does not mean (as some appear to think) that whatever is found is inaccurate.

When I was taking 3rd grade science, did my textbook go into 'full scientific accuracy about chromosomes? Heck, no. Check out the college and post grade biology courses, and what you learn about chromosomes is far more full and accurate. . .but what you learn in 3rd grade is scientifically accurate, though not fully and completely so, to the level an 8 year old understands.

Or take, for example, the medieval (and indeed the classic antiquity GrecoRoman) theory that the body temperment was composed of 4 ‘humours’ or fluids, and that a person was governed ‘more’ by one or two, thus a person could be phlegmatic, choleric, melancholic, etc.

For the time, the scientific accuracy was unquestioned. But was it full? Was it ‘accurate’ according to what we know in AD 2008? Would it have been accurate if it had been put forth in 2008 BC???

And above all. . .**is **the Bible meant to be 'scientifically accurate?? Or it is meant to be true. . .with ‘true’ not necessarily expressing the science of ‘today’ yet still being true?

Just you wait until 100 years from now some great scientific discovery is made about, say, how the pancreas functions. And just you wait until they start going through all the literature and medical treatment etc. regarding diabetes and pancreatic cancer–in the light of the new knowledge.

They’ll say, “Good gravy–these people were quacks. They were imbeciles. How could they have not seen what the real cause of the diseases were, now that we know them? How could they speak of diabetes and pancreatic cancer the way they did? Wrong, wrong, wrong.”

Same kind of mushy thinking here. . .that because the Bible doesn’t speak specifically that “Lo–ye earth moves around ye sun in a spherical form of ye ellipse, and ye sun does not really move even though ye psalms speak of it 'rising and setting, forsooth”. . .oh murgatroyd, the Bible is not fully scientifically accurate. Horrors. It says the sun rises and sets (and that isn’t accurate.). Horrors. It claims to be inerrant but it isn’t scientifically accurate.

Horrors.

These people are scaremongers and IMO were deliberately trying to make it look as though "The Catholic Church’ was denying the Bible.

hogwash.
 
For ‘the sacred writers, or to speak more accurately – the words are St. Augustine’s – the Holy Spirit, who spoke by them, did not intend to teach men these things of the universe – things in no way profitable to salvation’; which principle ‘will apply to cognate sciences, and especially to history,’ that is, by refuting, ‘in a somewhat similar way the fallacies of the adversaries and defending the historical truth of Sacred Scripture from their attacks.’ Nor is the sacred writer to be taxed with error, if ‘copyists have made mistakes in the text of the Bible,’ or, ‘if the real meaning of a passage remains ambiguous.’ Finally, it is absolutely wrong and forbidden ‘either to narrow inspiration to certain passages of Holy Scripture, or to admit that the sacred writer has erred,’ since divine inspiration ‘not only is essentially incompatible with error but excludes and rejects it as absolutely and necessarily as it is impossible that God Himself, the supreme Truth, can utter that which is not true. This is the ancient and constant faith of the Church"

Ripped off from here rtforum.org/lt/lt120.html
 
I’ve heard this news repeated often in many forums I am a member of (some of them non-religious). I think we can make a few points on this:

1.) The title of the article tells us that ‘The Catholic Church no longer swears by the truth of the Bible.’ And the introductory paragraph says that the ‘hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church’ has published a document yet the article continues by saying that those who published it are the bishops of England, Wales and Scotland (not all the bishops, i.e. the hierarchy of the Catholic Church!). Obviously, anyone could figure out that not all bishops of the Church are located in these locales; the (arch)dioceses in England, Wales and Scotland comprise only a small fraction of the universal Church.

2.) The article says:
Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design” to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.
But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”.
This belief is not new. The bishops are merely repeating what was already believed before in Church circles; after all, since when should we expect the media to actually give a care about the Church, much less report about her and her beliefs accurately?

Biblical literalism (believing and interpreting every word in the Bible in an explicit literal manner, denying any existence of allegory, parable and metaphor in it) only became widespread during the Reformation.

Before that, the Bible was not usually interpreted in a completely literal way; while some Church Fathers such as Sts. Basil the Great, Gregory the Theologian, John Chrysostom and Ephrem the Syrian, believed in a literal interpretation of the Bible; that does not mean all took the Bible very literally. Here is St. Justin Martyr on Genesis:
“For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, ‘The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,’ is connected with this subject.” (Dialogue with Trypho, chapter 81)
Origen once remarked:
“What intelligent person will suppose that there was a first, a second and a third day, that there was evening and morning without the existence of the sun and moon and stars? Or that there was a first day without a sky? Who could be so silly as to think that God planted a paradise in Eden in the East the way a human gardener does, and that he made in this garden a visible and palpable tree of life, so that by tasting its fruit with one’s bodily teeth one should receive life? And in the same way, that someone could partake of good and evil by chewing what was taken from this tree? If God is represented as walking in the garden in the evening, or Adam as hiding under the tree, I do not think anyone can doubt that these things, by means of a story which did not in fact materially occur, are intended to express certain mysteries in a metaphorical way.”
Saint Augustine, one of the most influential theologians of the Catholic Church, suggested that the Biblical text should not be interpreted literally if it contradicts what we know from science and our God-given reason. In the book “The Literal Interpretation of Genesis” (408 AD), Augustine took the view that everything in the universe was created simultaneously by God, and not in seven days like a plain account of Genesis would require. He argues that the six-day structure of creation presented in the book of Genesis represents a logical framework, rather than the passage of time in a physical way. Augustine also doesn’t envisage original sin as originating structural changes in the universe, and even suggests that the bodies of Adam and Eve were already created mortal before the Fall. Apart from his specific views, Augustine recognizes that the interpretation of the creation story is difficult, and remarks that we should be willing to change our mind about it as new information comes up.
“It not infrequently happens that something about the Earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he [the non-Christian] should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are. In view of this and in keeping it in mind constantly while dealing with the book of Genesis, I have, insofar as I was able, explained in detail and set forth for consideration the meanings of obscure passages, taking care not to affirm rashly some one meaning to the prejudice of another and perhaps better explanation.” (The Literal Interpretation of Genesis 1:19–20, chapter 19)
“With the scriptures it is a matter of treating about the faith. For that reason, as I have noted repeatedly, if anyone, not understanding the mode of divine eloquence, should find something about these matters [about the physical universe] in our books, or hear of the same from those books, of such a kind that it seems to be at variance with the perceptions of his own rational faculties, let him believe that these other things are in no way necessary to the admonitions or accounts or predictions of the scriptures. In short, it must be said that our authors knew the truth about the nature of the skies, but it was not the intention of the Spirit of God, who spoke through them, to teach men anything that would not be of use to them for their salvation.” (ibid, 2:9)
By the way, here is a website reviewing that document which is entitled “The Gift of Scripture.
 
Is that what they said? No. Not even in the quotes you provide is that what was being said.

The Bible is true. The Catholic Church has always believed it to be true. Parts of it may not be historically or scientifically accurate. This is not new.
So, which part of the Bible do Catholics believe God got wrong?
 
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