Catholic Church Position on Immigration

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Contarini,

About the need ‘to feed one’s family’, power people in South and Central American countries know very well the Catholic Church’s mandate for the poor.

But what I am pointing to, and again people are showing their own inclinations to only part of what the catechism is teaching, there is the age old problem of power forces using and exploiting the poor for political purposes. That is evil. And the fact that our resources are being plundered. Our economic and health system took years to develop based on a particular infrastructure. When the infrastructure is deliberately hit, it is abuse and will collapse.

America itself is a victim of the left and its propaganda. I lived with it, saw it first hand. It is deliberate what is happening today in the transfer of wealth, most don’t even know where the money is going. We have forces inside our country destroying it from within.

So it is not about refusing aid to the poor, but the leftist war against our country that has been going on since the beginning of Marxism. This war also incorporates globalist, transnational forces – people without countries – who are exploiting our poor with loans they know they could never pay back, who are manipulating our food supply – and possibly using the illegals to farm such genetically modified food, as well as other necessities of life that are being manipulated and not really good for us or our environment, as well as our financial system.

People are reacting basically to what is happening to our entire country, and it has many heads.
 
The other issue people are sensing is alot of hypocrisy in the illegal movement.

There is focus on Mexico’s corruption and drug war. But there is little focus on the Mexican government promoting illegal immigration and support to the USA, while if anyone comes into their country illegally, they are imprisoned up to 10 years. How come Mexico is not taking care of its own people? Why does one see a photo of the Mexican/American border…and on one side you see a barren desert, and may be just a mile on the other side within the United States, you see so much wealth and prosperity?? That is the problem. What is going on in Mexico that is preventing it from being prosperous and causing such poverty to its own people. They are manipulating their poor, endangering their lives by sending them here, not feeding their poor. They have the same type of land as the Americans.

And there is leadership within the illegal movement that is saying that SW USA, and its prosperity and wealth it has worked for, belongs to them.

Instead of the focus of America always the bad one – but people want to come here, there needs to be more of a focus on Mexico and why people are poor. Here we go, but during Catholic Mexico in times’ past, it was known as the center of learning in the New World, not the USA. The Masonic Revolution destroyed the infrastructure and created alot of poverty and corruption.

Someday America will be a poor country. Socio economic wars only backfire on themselves. Some day America will be bankrupt, its infrastructure destroyed because of these wars and abuse of the generosity of our people.

Catholic social doctrine is universal. It just does not take one side of people. The quote given also was bolded to show the respect and support for our infrastructure by immigrants who come here as well, legal or illegal. There is alot of corruption done by legal immigrants. I know and I have lived in international areas of this country my entire life.
 
Hesychios said:
Wow, I am glad you brought that up.

That was a real case of immigrants abusing the hospitality of the host nation.

The same thing happened to Hawaii.
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The language of the US is English.

It is not uncharitable to expect immigrants to learn English.

If I was moving to another country I would want to learn the languange, and I know the most immigrants do.

We don’t want America to become Balkanized like much of the world.

A common language is an important step toward unity and it makes justice and prosperity more attainable for all citizens and legal immigratns.
 
The Leftists have succeeded in preventing America from instituting English as its official language!!!

There are public schools now in my city where our Pledge of Allegiance to our own country is not allowed.

We will wake up some morning and find we no longer live in America and that we can no longer openly practice our religion. Or, we will be allowed to practice our faith, but we will be second class citizens with no opportunities.

I know a young mother who lost her job, an injustice knowing the work field she was in as a caregiver. She went to get food stamps. There were illegals at the benefits office. She was denied any help for food because the parttime case she still had gave her a small income, disqualifying her because of $60 she earned. Yet the illegals got the aid.

That is how they are being used.
 
You know a person by the company he keeps…

Two days ago, Mexico filed a ‘friend of court’ brief in US Federal court for Federal judge to declare Arizona’s SB1070 unconstitutional, while Mexico itself severely prosecutes anyone crossing its borders.

Subsequently, it is now joining with the ACLU, MALDEF, and the radical LaRaza that wants to take over the prosperous SW USA.
 
KathleenGee said:
You know a person by the company he keeps…

Two days ago, Mexico filed a ‘friend of court’ brief in US Federal court for Federal judge to declare Arizona’s SB1070 unconstitutional, while Mexico itself severely prosecutes anyone crossing its borders.

Subsequently, it is now joining with the ACLU, MALDEF, and the radical LaRaza that wants to take over the prosperous SW USA.
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This stuff boggles my mind. I don’t understand how people can be so hypocritical of the exact same policies that they enforce in their own country?
 
Justin,

What it really gets down to is Judeo-Christian morality and the 10 commandments. Catholic Church still speaks out defending the sanctity of human life. The internet and intelligence have made our earth so small that so much is being exposed.

In the end, the Lord and His people will win. But we must keep our eyes on heaven and not so much on this earth…and in this scenario, see it as a grace to be charitable to all…

because looking up, your Redemption will be at hand, not the works of this earth. so if it gets too much, it is time to pull in, and now keep your eyes solely on the Lord and His providence, and have peace, deep peace.

These are the things I am working on myself…not to worry, and let people think what they want and be more charitable and not irritable with other people’s differences.
 
Update:

Here are quotes from Bishop John C. Webster, Diocese of Salt Lake CIty, chairman of the USCCB Committee on Migration:

"What kind of immigration reform do the bishops what exactly? Amnesty? Open borders?

Answer: “Neither. The U.S. Bishops’ prescription for mending our broken system is to bring the 11 undocumented out of the shadows, register them with the government, require them to pay a fine and any taxes owed, and require them to learn English and work as they wait in the back of the line for a chance of citizenship. This is not “amnesty,” which is generally defined as granting a benefit without anything in return.”

“The U.S. bishops would also support an increase in the family-based and employment-based visas so that immigrant families could migrate to the United States in a safe, legal and controlled manner, and not be subject to the abuse of human smugglers or to death in the desert.”

“It is our view that making changes to the legal immigration system will help ease pressure on our border by taking undocumented immigrants out of the enforcement equation, freeing up law enforcement to focus upon those who are here to harm us – drug smugglers, human traffickers, and would-be-terrorists - not those simply looking for a job.”

“We also believe…that Congress should examine how the root causes of migration can be addressed, so that migrants can stay where they are and work in dignity.”
 
KathleenGee said:
Subsequently, it is now joining with the ACLU, MALDEF, and the radical LaRaza that wants to take over the prosperous SW USA.
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Do you believe the Mexican War was a just war?

If it wasn’t, why is it nefarious for persons of Hispanic culture to wish to recover (nonviolently) what was wrongfully and violently taken from them?

Edwin
 
KathleenGee said:
The Leftists have succeeded in preventing America from instituting English as its official language!!!

There are public schools now in my city where our Pledge of Allegiance to our own country is not allowed.

We will wake up some morning and find we no longer live in America and that we can no longer openly practice our religion. Or, we will be allowed to practice our faith, but we will be second class citizens with no opportunities.
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Why is an influx of Christians (traditionally Catholics, but often now Pentecostals) going to damage the position of Christianity in America?

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
Do you believe the Mexican War was a just war?
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Do you believe the Spanish invasion of Mexico and Central America was a just war?
If it wasn’t, why is it nefarious for persons of Hispanic culture to wish to recover (nonviolently) what was wrongfully and violently taken from them?
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Edwin
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Why they stole it from indigenous people, in the first place…
 
The mentality of the Renaissance was such that the world was there to be discovered, cultivated.

I read as much as I could on the ancient history of Central America, and to some point, the history of Mexico. The Spanish Conquistadors were indeed very impressed and amazed at the cultural development of the Aztec people. Montezuma himself had a spiritual dream of boats with crosses on the sails navigated by white men would arrive at his shores…the event seemed divine. But then, you also have to look at the religion of the Aztecs and their fear of the night god. To appease him and have the sun return, human sacrifice was believed the means to bring about another day.

The people told the Spanish the Aztecan priests were very nice. Their custom of gentility among the priests and men were to carry a flower a certain way in the hand. The sacrificial room was full of blood encrusted on the walls and floors. Many times, it was neighboring Indian tribes who were taken, especially the teens. There was an impestuous confrontation by an underling of the head of the Spanish armada surrounded by Indians, and he initiated a bloodbath. This then led to the war between the Conquistadores and the Indians. It took 2 years to finally defeat the Aztecs. The Aztecs were bringing their own 2 year old children up the stairs to be sacrifice to win the war. In the end they lost. But it was the neighboring Indian tribes who committed the worst atrocities at the end.

Relations between the Indians and Spaniards was very bad. There were few converts. Bishop Zumarraga prayed to Our Lady for roses in December that his prayers would be heard and there would be peace among the peoples. Juan Diego was an Indian who walked 13 miles a day to Mass and back, a sacristan. Mary appeared to him. She left her imprint on his tilma. It was in pictographs. The Aztecans communicated through pictographs. When Juan opened his tilma to the bishop giving him roses from the lady, the image appeared. The image of Mary on the tilma is about 500 years old. Normally cactus cloth lasts only 20 years.

Conversions among the Indians came about. They understood finally the message of Christ through Mary and her sign. The bishop declared that women and girls had a right to an education hundreds of years before North American women did. Universities were built, various Indians became teachers and scholars…in time there was little poverty in Mexico, and it became the center of learning for the New World.

Eventually there came about clergy material excess that caused scandal, but overall the priests and missionaries were beloved by the people. The Masonic Revolution destroyed the infrastructure of Mexico, it became poor and has not fully recovered.

You can see the border of California with much prosperity divided by a fence and on the other side a barren desert. So may be you can say to take back is stretching it because the Americans built California and the SW.

The only solution is peace and reciprocity and that Mexico itself needs to be restored. Afterall, it seems no one is fully looking at Mexico to see why people in the past have wanted to flee it.
 
I came across the bishop’s remarks the other day that were clearly balanced and acknowledged the abuses and impositions coming into our country from illegal immigration and the radical hate mongers wanting to take over the fruits of our labor.

How long do people play the blame game…they did it to us…we will do it to them…

Only turning the other cheek will help. I know of so many Americans who do look the other way and wish no harm to the illegals, although they do not like what is happening to our borders.
 
kimmielittle said:
Do you believe the Spanish invasion of Mexico and Central America was a just war?
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No.
Why they stole it from indigenous people, in the first place…
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Indeed. And if indigenous people had more kids than people who identify themselves culturally as Spanish, and immigrated from other places to Mexico, and began demanding equal rights for Nahuatl alongside Spanish, etc., the Spanish would have no reason to complain whatsoever.

Of course, the fact is that the Spanish, for all their evil actions, were not as viciously and consistently racist as the English and intermarried (or at least inter-procreated) quite freely with the indigenous people, so that many Mexicans have indigenous descent and identify themselves with the indigenous population. Since this relatively (only relatively) less vicious racism in the Spanish-speaking parts of the hemisphere is probably due to the influence of Catholicism, it’s ironic that I should have to point it out on a Catholic forum.

But at any rate, the point is that of course we can’t simply hand back all land all over the earth to whatever group originally owned it. In most cases the first human inhabitants are extinct as a distinctive group (though of course one assumes that many of us are descended from them). In some cases, like native populations in North America or the Gaelic inhabitants of the Scottish Highlands, there aren’t that many left.

The point I’m making is that when the people from whom the land was wrongfully taken, or people culturally indistinguishable from them, “threaten” to take the land back through peaceful immigration, this is something at which all right-minded people (not to mention all Christians, and particularly all Catholics) ought to rejoice. It is certainly not part of some nefarious plot to bring down Christianity!

Edwin
 
I have no problem with Immigration as long as it is done in a legal manner, according to our laws. I do have a problem with illegal immigration. Those who smub their noses at our laws, coming here and demanding the same rights that a citizen of the U.S. has. Putting a burden on our schools, hospitals, our state. Crime is up and the city I live in has gone down. I live in a border state and the city that I live in is 40% non-hispanic and 60% hispanic, Out of the 60%, 40% are illegal. 30 years ago it was 80% non-hispanic and 20% hispanic, Out of the 20%, 5% were illegal. In order to get a job you have to speak hispanic. This is a big problem.
Lets say you own property and someone sneeks on it (comes on it illegally) and desides to stay. Would you let them? They don’t pay you for property they are staying on, they demand that you supply them with water, food. They demand that you supply them with a house to live in, educate their children, pay for their medical. They demand the same rights you have as a property owner and demand it of your property. Then they have other family members come live with them and their family members and their family members and so on and so on. Next thing you know you have hundreds of thousands of illegals living off you on your property. What would you do? Would you let them stay? If so, why? If not, why?
 
RevKevin,

People were not reflecting the whole scope by the American bishops…the chairman of the bishops council made this clear…and that people are to learn English and assimilate…the left wing will not allow English as our official language. We do not want to become balkanized.

I am thankful that the clergy overseeing my secular fraternity is encouraging everyone to develop reciprocal and spiritual relationships. The Hispanics tend to want to keep separate. It is hard. I worked with foreigners…but the priests and nuns always spoke the common language so we could all be together even though we spoke different languages.

Contarini was correct that after Guadalupe, the relations among the Spanish and the Indians began to improve, there were great conversions…many intermarriages…Catholicism is universal when it is faithful.

I also believe that when we address social problems, we have to look at the full picture. There is blame and good on both sides. Law and order must be upheld…speak Spanish in Mexico, speak English in America…good order…

there is just so much divisions based on the veil of language among people of same common tongue…
 
Contarini said:
The point I’m making is that when the people from whom the land was wrongfully taken, or people culturally indistinguishable from them, “threaten” to take the land back through peaceful immigration, this is something at which all right-minded people (not to mention all Christians, and particularly all Catholics) ought to rejoice. It is certainly not part of some nefarious plot to bring down Christianity!

Edwin
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Evidently, we read from a different book. “Peaceful Immigration” does not support illegal immigration. Since the1940’s we have had Peaceful Immigration available. For the Common Good of citizens and immigrants.
 
KathleenGee said:
…

The problem is that America is being branded as bad by being concerned about the overflow and its effect, besides the crimes, and outside of the drug cartels, nobody is addressing the bad in Mexico and why people want to flee. You see a photograph of the Mexico/USA border and it is like black and white. One side prosperity and the other side, same climate and terrain, a barren desert with a few houses. But it is America that is bad…this is Marxism. I was in a country that went Marxist and the first day of its existence, it showed no regard for its own people. Later when so much destruction came to the country, the Marxists refused international aid…anyway, the seized newspapers said, ‘America is the Enemy of the World’.

Innocent illegals are being motivated to come here not just by the Marxists, or the drug cartels, or the human trafficking, but other powers – I assume, governmental as well, due to an age old grudge against the gringos.

Shows how much the power of forgiveness has. I have met illegals and found them very good. But I read all the time what is happening across town by the others who are deliberately abusing us, people with criminal minds.

There needs to be more balance by the Church on addressing the entire issue.
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Couple of thoughts…Balance is what the Gay and Lesbians are asking for…
Balance is what part of the Pro-Choice movement is asking for…It seems to me that the Church can only instruct the truth and often times it is not what people want to hear, nevertheless many people want a balance.

On your point about Marxist countries I believe those are the countries that the state:
  1. Owns a significant share of the large heavy industries.
  2. Owns a significant portion of the Banking and finance sector.
  3. Controls Higher learning through student loan programs so they can define futures.
  4. Own or significantly control the health care systems.
  5. Regulate production of food and land use.
  6. Regulate what can and cannot be taught to children.
  7. Control a significant amount of the energy sector.
Maybe the above are just Socialist countries? Capitalist countries would not have the above characteristics. I guess the difference is just in the degree or amount of these industries that the state owns? In any event our country appears to have all of these “symptoms”, so using the above criteria we are not capitalist, but already socialist and marching left. The question is how far left are we and is this what you would call a balance?
 
kimmielittle said:
Evidently, we read from a different book. “Peaceful Immigration” does not support illegal immigration.
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Indeed we do. I take “peaceful” to mean that you aren’t killing or otherwise harming people. I agree with St. Thomas Aquinas that an unjust law is no law. The claim that “peaceful immigration” is legally open to Latin Americans is a cruel joke. The numbers admitted are radically disproportionate to the need.

Edwin
 
rev_kevin said:
I have no problem with Immigration as long as it is done in a legal manner, according to our laws. I do have a problem with illegal immigration. Those who smub their noses at our laws, coming here and demanding the same rights that a citizen of the U.S. has. Putting a burden on our schools, hospitals, our state. Crime is up and the city I live in has gone down. I live in a border state and the city that I live in is 40% non-hispanic and 60% hispanic, Out of the 60%, 40% are illegal. 30 years ago it was 80% non-hispanic and 20% hispanic, Out of the 20%, 5% were illegal. In order to get a job you have to speak hispanic. This is a big problem.
Lets say you own property and someone sneeks on it (comes on it illegally) and desides to stay. Would you let them? They don’t pay you for property they are staying on, they demand that you supply them with water, food. They demand that you supply them with a house to live in, educate their children, pay for their medical. They demand the same rights you have as a property owner and demand it of your property. Then they have other family members come live with them and their family members and their family members and so on and so on. Next thing you know you have hundreds of thousands of illegals living off you on your property. What would you do? Would you let them stay? If so, why? If not, why?
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Kevin,

Yasser Arafat said the best weapon against the Zionist was the Palestinian womb… I would say blame this all on contraception and abortion. Martin Luther said contraception was evil and I agree with him. It is really pretty simple Supply and Demand. Kill 53 million + all the births due to contraception and you end up with a demand signal which we broadcasted over the boarder. We did not have the illegal issues prior to the 80’s except in farming, jobs Americans did not want to do. Now we have them everywhere.

Supply and Demand is:
The Drug War
Was Prohibition
The oldest profession

Oh well, until people see that contraception is the root of the Pro-Death tree this Immigration fruit we are eating will continue to come.

We unless Planned Parenthood can work its way into Mexico. Then some people will be able to cheer as their immigration problems will go away.:rolleyes:

I won’t be one of those cheering… I would rather they come then let PP get them.:o
 
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