Catholic Church Position on Immigration

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RevKevin,

People were not reflecting the whole scope by the American bishops…the chairman of the bishops council made this clear…and that people are to learn English and assimilate…the left wing will not allow English as our official language. We do not want to become balkanized.

I am thankful that the clergy overseeing my secular fraternity is encouraging everyone to develop reciprocal and spiritual relationships. The Hispanics tend to want to keep separate. It is hard. I worked with foreigners…but the priests and nuns always spoke the common language so we could all be together even though we spoke different languages.

Contarini was correct that after Guadalupe, the relations among the Spanish and the Indians began to improve, there were great conversions…many intermarriages…Catholicism is universal when it is faithful.

I also believe that when we address social problems, we have to look at the full picture. There is blame and good on both sides. Law and order must be upheld…speak Spanish in Mexico, speak English in America…good order…

there is just so much divisions based on the veil of language among people of same common tongue…
KathleenGee

All this is fine and good but it does not answer my questions.
As far as intermarriages go, all my children are half hispanic.
I gather you don’t live in a border state so you don’t know the problems they have with this.
To be honest with you I say that I live in Mexico, thats how bad the problem is here. When my child was dinied pre-school because he speaks english but if he spoke spanish he would have been able to go to pre-school. When they have spanish speaking classes for children who don’t speak english and don’t try to teach them english. When you go to the emergency room because your feet have swollen which is a sign of heart problems and have to waite because some illegal has the sniffles and no insurance to go to a P.C… When your property value goes down because of their lifestyle.
 
Indeed we do. I take “peaceful” to mean that you aren’t killing or otherwise harming people. I agree with St. Thomas Aquinas that an unjust law is no law. The claim that “peaceful immigration” is legally open to Latin Americans is a cruel joke. The numbers admitted are radically disproportionate to the need.

Edwin
Who’s need?
When we have 11 million actually, that is only a guesstimate ] ILLEGAL Foreigners sucking from the teat…it becomes extremely hard to nourish the LEGAL Immigrants…let alone the nationalized citizens of a country.

We allow more LEGAL Immigrants than any other country. Well over 1.27 million a year.

We accept more refugees… Of the top ten countries accepting resettled refugees in 2006, the United States accepted more than twice as much as the next nine countries combined.

8 million immigrants came to the United States from 2000 to 2005 – more than in any other five-year period in the nation’s history. Almost half entered illegally.

How is a law unjust…when it requires aliens, who seek the refuge of America, to take on responsibility of citizenship… through American laws?

,
To hold our immigration laws as unjust…You must condemn every other countries Immigration laws Including Mexico’s ]

Actually, Mexico is a lot better off financially, than many other countries. If we wish to be fair…Maybe we should…cut down on Mexican Immigrants and raise the numbers of immigrants from poorer counties.IMHO
 
Who’s need?
When we have 11 million actually, that is only a guesstimate ] ILLEGAL Foreigners sucking from the teat…it becomes extremely hard to nourish the LEGAL Immigrants…let alone the nationalized citizens of a country.

We allow more LEGAL Immigrants than any other country. Well over 1.27 million a year.

We accept more refugees… Of the top ten countries accepting resettled refugees in 2006, the United States accepted more than twice as much as the next nine countries combined.

8 million immigrants came to the United States from 2000 to 2005 – more than in any other five-year period in the nation’s history. Almost half entered illegally.

How is a law unjust…when it requires aliens, who seek the refuge of America, to take on responsibility of citizenship… through American laws?

,
To hold our immigration laws as unjust…You must condemn every other countries Immigration laws Including Mexico’s ]

Actually, Mexico is a lot better off financially, than many other countries. If we wish to be fair…Maybe we should…cut down on Mexican Immigrants and raise the numbers of immigrants from poorer counties.IMHO
I just got back from Mexico on a Mission trip, and there is definitely another perspective to be seen. If I were a mother in Mexico, I would do anything I could to get my children out of the country and into the US. Most areas have no running water, no healthcare, kids get a fifth-grade education, corruption is 100% commonplace (even in the lower levels of government), and there is no way for people born in poverty to climb up the socio-economic ladder. Sure, there are poorer countries, but Mexico is a third world nation that we need to help.

The United States has a special responsibility towards Mexico because we are the ones who brought gangs into their country, and if Americans didn’t use drugs, then the drug problem in Mexico would be virtually eliminated.

I also think we should stop associating “illegal immigrant” with Mexicans. Sure, the majority might be Hispanic, but there are hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants from developed countries in Asia and Europe. They should be the ones weeded out since they have fully functioning home countries, not the Mexicans who have a legitimate claim to a better life.

Illegal Immigrants pay taxes, support our industries, etc. The only difference between an illegal and a legal immigrant is how they entered the US, honestly. We cannot despise these people for wanting a better life for their children, it only shows their love.

Also, the language jabs are very inappropriate. The US does not have an official language, nor are immigrants forced to be perfectly fluent in English when they immigrate. The Swiss teach their children five language so that they can converse with people from neighboring countries. The fact that many Americans don’t know more than one language should not be an aspect of pride.

The role of the church should be to protect and to love anyone who comes to it, regardless of their status in the world. As Christians we need to love our neighbors, even our enemies, and the means feeding them, and clothing them, and sheltering them, even if it may be detrimental to ourselves.
 
I just got back from Mexico on a Mission trip, and there is definitely another perspective to be seen. If I were a mother in Mexico, I would do anything I could to get my children out of the country and into the US. Most areas have no running water, no healthcare, kids get a fifth-grade education, corruption is 100% commonplace (even in the lower levels of government), and there is no way for people born in poverty to climb up the socio-economic ladder. Sure, there are poorer countries, but Mexico is a third world nation that we need to help.

The United States has a special responsibility towards Mexico because we are the ones who brought gangs into their country, and if Americans didn’t use drugs, then the drug problem in Mexico would be virtually eliminated.

I also think we should stop associating “illegal immigrant” with Mexicans. Sure, the majority might be Hispanic, but there are hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants from developed countries in Asia and Europe. They should be the ones weeded out since they have fully functioning home countries, not the Mexicans who have a legitimate claim to a better life.

Illegal Immigrants pay taxes, support our industries, etc. The only difference between an illegal and a legal immigrant is how they entered the US, honestly. We cannot despise these people for wanting a better life for their children, it only shows their love.

Also, the language jabs are very inappropriate. The US does not have an official language, nor are immigrants forced to be perfectly fluent in English when they immigrate. The Swiss teach their children five language so that they can converse with people from neighboring countries. The fact that many Americans don’t know more than one language should not be an aspect of pride.

The role of the church should be to protect and to love anyone who comes to it, regardless of their status in the world. As Christians we need to love our neighbors, even our enemies, and the means feeding them, and clothing them, and sheltering them, even if it may be detrimental to ourselves.
This is the type of post I would expect from someone that wants to help those less fortunate… 👍👍

Cheers…!!
 
Two additional point --is that Mexico will imprison anyone for years for illegal entry, and what is it with Mexico that people want to flee it?
Proverty! One of my issues with so many of my fellow Americans is their failure to understand what it is like to live in a third world country. Many of my friends will say:

That is not true,I have traveled the world extensively and know what poverty is like in many countries.

Sorry,not the same thing. Visiting and LIVING it are two entire different things.
 
Originally Posted by rev kevin
I have no problem with Immigration as long as it is done in a legal manner, according to our laws. I do have a problem with illegal immigration. Those who smub their noses at our laws, coming here and demanding the same rights that a citizen of the U.S. has. Putting a burden on our schools, hospitals, our state. Crime is up and the city I live in has gone down. I live in a border state and the city that I live in is 40% non-hispanic and 60% hispanic, Out of the 60%, 40% are illegal.
And I suppose you have concrete evidence supporting your claim? 40% out of 60%-eh?
30 years ago it was 80% non-hispanic and 20% hispanic, Out of the 20%, 5% were illegal. In order to get a job you have to speak hispanic. This is a big problem.
You have to speak Spanish? What state do your currently live at?
Lets say you own property and someone sneeks on it (comes on it illegally) and desides to stay. Would you let them? They don’t pay you for property they are staying on, they demand that you supply them with water, food. They demand that you supply them with a house to live in, educate their children, pay for their medical. They demand the same rights you have as a property owner and demand it of your property. Then they have other family members come live with them and their family members and their family members and so on and so on. Next thing you know you have hundreds of thousands of illegals living off you on your property. What would you do? Would you let them stay? If so, why? If not, why?
And how easy it is to point fingers at another race/ethnic group,rather than pointing fingers at the GOVERNMENT who sets up systems,laws,regulations,etc,etc.
 
What is a country when borders are taken down? Take down a border,no country.

Concerning the war with Mexico and the independence of Texas and other states, many Mexicans helped us fight that war BECAUSE, Mexico at that time suppressed the people of Mexico. The US helped free people once again. I get so sick and tired of these liberal people “blame America 1st”. If America is so bad, go to a socialist Nation somewhere. Freeing people is a duty as a Christian Nation, NOT stealing as Contarini said. THAT is the Christian way, not to turn your head and let people go into a socialist/communist drug lord state.

Also, if Mexicans are against what their country stands for, it is up to them to change it. Not run from it. American people would stay and change it’s own gov’t if it were the case.
 
I just got back from Mexico on a Mission trip, and there is definitely another perspective to be seen. If I were a mother in Mexico, I would do anything I could to get my children out of the country and into the US.
So you would as a Mexican mother, do anything??? You would teach your children, by your actions, that the ends justify the means? That you have no responsibility other than to self and your families needs and desires? That is an interesting “Christian” concept, to me.😦
Most areas have no running water, no healthcare, kids get a fifth-grade education,
So immigration somehow solves these problems, for those left behind? They locals not able to immigrate ] are still left with no running water…a poor education…healthcare. I’m sorry, but your logic has some major flaws, IMHO. Immigration, is a poor substitute…In fact, it promotes these hardships as you still leave hundreds behind to suffer for each you allow to immigrate.

What stops the local Churches… Catholic and others and Peace Corps ect ]… from teaching? Providing better health water …sanitation ] needs? THIS is how ** local ** needs are addressed.
corruption is 100% commonplace (even in the lower levels of government), and there is no way for people born in poverty to climb up the socio-economic ladder. Sure, there are poorer countries, but Mexico is a third world nation that we need to help.
And immigration is the answer for internal problems?
The United States has a special responsibility towards Mexico because we are the ones who brought gangs into their country,
Could you please provide your evidence of this statement? Gangs have been with ALL of us since the beginning of time recorded…for good or bad. Im almost positive that: To the Jews…Jesus and His Gang…was bad for Jewish traditions
and if Americans didn’t use drugs, then the drug problem in Mexico would be virtually eliminated.
Nonsense, IMHO. If America " dried out" tomorrow, Drugs would be sold to the next easy target. By geographic sense alone, USA is the easiest to run illegal drugs. Crime seeks the “easiest ways”…that is the nature of crime.
I also think we should stop associating “illegal immigrant” with Mexicans. Sure, the majority might be Hispanic,
Then logic dictates that we can associate Mexicans with illegal immigration, if your above statement is accurate…can we not?
but there are hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants from developed countries in Asia and Europe. They should be the ones weeded out since they have fully functioning home countries, not the Mexicans who have a legitimate claim to a better life.
Legitimate…means Legal. No one …Asian, European, Mexican or other …HAS the right to not support the laws of the country they enter.
Illegal Immigrants pay taxes, support our industries, etc.
It is true they buy local goods…But can you support that they pay such as Social Security…Federal Income taxes? These can only be done as a LEGAL immigrant…Since ILLEGAL Immigrants don’t possess the correct paperwork to do so - that is what makes them Illegal.
The onliy difference between nan illegal and a legalc immigrant ise how they entered the US,
The difference is Individual responsibility that LEGALS have adhered / taken on…and illegals chose to disregard.
honestly. We cannot despise these people for wanting a better life for their children, it only shows their love.
People who want a better life…start with their individual responsibilities. Not expect a hosting country to cater to their irresponsible actions… They, after-all chose to live in America. The laws that protect and allow them nourishment are for ALL Americans. This includes our immigration laws.
Also, the language jabs are very inappropriate. The US does not have an official language, nor are immigrants forced to be perfectly fluent in English when they immigrate.
I think, they are quite appropriate. We waste tax payer monies to preserve a culture. A selected population…that is discrimination to ALL other cultures.
The Swiss teach their children five language so that they can converse with people from neighboring countries.
The Swiss teach five languages because they are a World Banking Country. World Banking accounts for most of the Swiss’ GNP…it make only sense to teach so many languages.
The fact that many Americans don’t know more than one language should not be an aspect of pride.
Did you know, that Spanish is a required language in many schools? Not like French, Latin…etc which are electives. Every tax-payer within the states and districts affected, are required to pay to teach Spanish to preserve a culture.
The role of the church should be to protect and to love anyone who comes to it,
The role of the Church, IMHO is to address local concerns…Immigration to a foreign country…is NOT addressing the home needs.
regardless of their status in the world. As Christians we need to love our neighbors, even our enemies, and the means feeding them, and clothing them, and sheltering them, even if it may be detrimental to ourselves.
ABSOLUTELY, We as Christians, should adopt Families within their country. Not exploiting them by exporting them to another.
 
What is a country when borders are taken down? Take down a border,no country.

Concerning the war with Mexico and the independence of Texas and other states, many Mexicans helped us fight that war BECAUSE, Mexico at that time suppressed the people of Mexico. The US helped free people once again. I get so sick and tired of these liberal people “blame America 1st”. If America is so bad, go to a socialist Nation somewhere. Freeing people is a duty as a Christian Nation, NOT stealing as Contarini said. THAT is the Christian way, not to turn your head and let people go into a socialist/communist drug lord state.

Also, if Mexicans are against what their country stands for, it is up to them to change it. Not run from it. American people would stay and change it’s own gov’t if it were the case.
And how easy we forget history when it suit us. And the U.S also suppressed its own people called: slaves and Native Americans. How long were they mistreated?

And get so tired of the so-called conservatives :“America has no blame at all” attitude.

Socialist? Last time I checked the U.S. runs a thing called Social Security and Medicare,etc,etc? What are those? Non-socialist programs?
 
So you would as a Mexican mother, do anything??? You would teach your children, by your actions, that the ends justify the means? That you have no responsibility other than to self and your families needs and desires? That is an interesting “Christian” concept, to me
I’ll clarify. I wouldn’t kill, I wouldn’t willingly hurt anyone. What I meant is that I can understand why they would move into America. Most families have nothing there, and I can see how a mother would look at American children and think, “These children are no better than mine, no superior in the eyes of God, yet they get education, plumbing, health care, safe housing, and a future,”. I can understand why they would move to the US, trying to do what is right for their children.
So immigration somehow solves these problems, for those left behind? They locals not able to immigrate ] are still left with no running water…a poor education…healthcare. I’m sorry, but your logic has some major flaws, IMHO. Immigration, is a poor substitute…In fact, it promotes these hardships as you still leave hundreds behind to suffer for each you allow to immigrate.
What stops the local Churches… Catholic and others and Peace Corps ect ]… from teaching? Providing better health water …sanitation ] needs? THIS is how local needs are addressed.
Immigration solves these problems for those who move, and often times they send money back to their families. I’m not saying it is at all a good long term solution, I am just saying that we need to be more sensitive to those who have moved. Obviously their nation has major issues to work out, and perhaps them leaving is not the best solution, but we cannot hate them for leaving.

Also, Mexico has very little infrastructure. The Government has very few programs that help the poor in a timely and effective manner. Also, the Catholic church there isn’t very effective (at least in some areas) because many people have combined it with pagan beliefs (at least in their personal worship) and the general consensus is that the poor are poor for a reason and the rich are usually not too generous in that regard. I am not an expert on this topic, but that is what I gathered from talking to the people there. Outside organizations are doing quite a lot, building houses, providing sanitation, but they are nowhere near to putting a dent in the problem.
Could you please provide your evidence of this statement? Gangs have been with ALL of us since the beginning of time recorded…for good or bad. Im almost positive that: To the Jews…Jesus and His Gang…was bad for Jewish traditions
I wrote a research paper on this earlier this year, but I’m having trouble finding the article, but I can share the research with you. It said that the idea of gangs used for drug trafficking moved down from California area and became popular within Mexico. That was when drug trade became a huge problem in Mexico.

Ahh, I think I found it. Oh, nope, but the one I just found talked about how America’s lax drug laws are the ones that actually allow cartels to arm themselves. I’ll keep looking for it though, and I’ll let you know when I find it.
Nonsense, IMHO. If America " dried out" tomorrow, Drugs would be sold to the next easy target. By geographic sense alone, USA is the easiest to run illegal drugs. Crime seeks the “easiest ways”…that is the nature of crime.
Sure, there still would be drugs, but Mexico would no longer be used as a stop in the drug dealing chain. Canada doesn’t have as large of a drug problem because Marijuana is legal for the most part, so illegal cartels don’t make so much of profit. Drug producing countries would still sell, but Mexico would definitely be less involved.

“Mexico, a major drug… transit country, is the main foreign supplier
of marijuana and a major supplier of methamphetamine to the United States.
Although Mexico accounts for only a small share of worldwide heroin production,
it supplies a large share of heroin consumed in the United States. An estimated 90%
of cocaine entering the United States transits Mexico.”
  • From a report presented to Congress
Then logic dictates that we can associate Mexicans with illegal immigration, if your above statement is accurate…can we not?
No! Just because there are illegal aliens that are Hispanic, it doesn’t mean that all Hispanics are illegal aliens. Associating a stereotype with a given race is a very dangerous thing to do, and also very rude and insensitive.
It is true they buy local goods…But can you support that they pay such as Social Security…Federal Income taxes? These can only be done as a LEGAL immigrant…Since ILLEGAL Immigrants don’t possess the correct paperwork to do so - that is what makes them Illegal
Actually. 1) Even if they don’t pay social security, they will never have access to the benefits, so it is ultimately a moot point 2) They can pay federal income taxes. According to the Tax Foundation, illegal immigrants can pay taxes using an Individual Tax Identification Number and while not all of them do that, the number of them applying for that identification number is quickly increasing. USA Today puts an estimate at $9 billion paid each year by illegal immigrants.
 
Sorry, I had to split my post into two because it was too long…😃
I think, they are quite appropriate. We waste tax payer monies to preserve a culture. A selected population…that is discrimination to ALL other cultures.
That makes no sense. How do we pay to preserve a culture? The government is not paying so that these people can speak spanish, and even if illegal immigrants did not exist, we should still respect legal immigrants who chose to speak spanish. Sure, they should be encouraged to speak english and given the opportunity to learn, but not hated for it. It makes sense to learn the languages of those in your country, to the extent that you can, in order to converse easily with those around you. Just like Switzerland is the center of the world bank, the US is a country of immigrants.
The role of the Church, IMHO is to address local concerns…Immigration to a foreign country…is NOT addressing the home needs.
ABSOLUTELY, We as Christians, should adopt Families within their country. Not exploiting them by exporting them to another.
That makes no sense! My point was, the church is not here to judge some for being legals, some for being illegally here. In fact, when they considered passing the Patriot Act, the Catholic church stood up and said that they would continue helping illegal immigrants because they are equal in the sight of God. When people immigrate to your town, it becomes a local concern, at least in the eyes of the church, and they should be loved just like anyone else.

What do you mean that you should adopt families within their country? And how are we exploiting them by exporting them to another? I don’t see how that makes sense.
  1. Of course we should help the Mexicans/ other countries in need so that they won’t need to immigrate in order to lead a healthy life, but that doesn’t mean we should disdain those who have immigrated.
  2. Nobody is forcing anyone to immigrate, it is a personal choice made by that family, and honestly, despite the low pay that some illegal immigrants get, they are often less exploited than at home.
And as to your comment FaithJoy:
Concerning the war with Mexico and the independence of Texas and other states, many Mexicans helped us fight that war BECAUSE, Mexico at that time suppressed the people of Mexico. The US helped free people once again. I get so sick and tired of these liberal people “blame America 1st”. If America is so bad, go to a socialist Nation somewhere. Freeing people is a duty as a Christian Nation, NOT stealing as Contarini said. THAT is the Christian way, not to turn your head and let people go into a socialist/communist drug lord state.
Also, if Mexicans are against what their country stands for, it is up to them to change it. Not run from it. American people would stay and change it’s own gov’t if it were the case.
  1. The US wasn’t fighting with Mexico to free the people of Mexico. It had two goals at the time. The first was to fully establish the boundary line between Mexico and Texas. The second was to get more land. They did both. We know for sure that they weren’t into freeing everybody because at the point where the war ended, the US was in a position to conquer the entire country (since they captured basically the entire army) but they only took the land convenient to them.
  2. Have you ever been to Mexico? The lower class about 70% of the country or more, and they have no say in anything. Democracy has a totally different meaning to them, and corruption is not just a quib made to gain votes in an election, it actually exists. You cannot go anywhere or doing anything big unless you bribe the city office, and your local drug lords, and the police. They cannot change anything! I’m not saying that leaving the country is a good long term solution. I’m just saying that we should just be respectful and try to help them.
I really don’t understand. We are on a Catholic forum, I thought I’d be seeing more Christian love, but I’m getting the same “liberals this” “Hispanics that” comments that I noticed on yahoo answers. We have to love everybody as Christians, regardless of whether or not that have different values, or if they are hurting us, or hating us. I’m not saying you have to hold hands and sing Kumbaya, but at least try to visit their perspective and to find positive solutions for the problem, rather than spewing illogical hatred.
 
And I suppose you have concrete evidence supporting your claim? 40% out of 60%-eh?

You have to speak Spanish? What state do your currently live at?

And how easy it is to point fingers at another race/ethnic group,rather than pointing fingers at the GOVERNMENT who sets up systems,laws,regulations,etc,etc.
Ya I do.
Lets see when applying for a Job here, or for that fact when they are posted they say must be bilingual, (spanish speaking) This kind of sign is in stores, Dr. offices, my dentist had a sign that said that. This is in the U.S.A. Texas. Talk about pointing fingers, you are doing the same thing. All that needs to be done is secure the border and inforce the current laws. I quess you don’t live in a border state where this is a major problem. How would you feel if your job was taken by a illegal because the would work for less money?
 
Actually. 1) Even if they don’t pay social security, they will never have access to the benefits, so it is ultimately a moot point 2) They can pay federal income taxes. According to the Tax Foundation, illegal immigrants can pay taxes using an Individual Tax Identification Number
I’ll tackle this one first 🙂

Actually, no. The Individual Tax Identification Number requires LEGAL alien status Identification…i.e such as a non expired Passport…Green Card…Work Visas…etc.
What documents are acceptable as proof of identity and foreign status?
IRS has streamlined the number of documents the agency will accept as proof of identity to obtain an ITIN. There are now 13 acceptable documents.
An original, or a certified or notarized copy, of an UNEXPIRED passport is the only document that is accepted for both identity and foreign status. If you do not have a passport, you must provide a combination of current documents that contain expiration dates - we accept documents issued within 12 months of the application if no expiration date is normally available. The documents must also show your name and photograph, and support your claim of foreign status.
IRS will accept certified or notarized copies of a combination (two or more) of the following documents, in lieu of a passport:
  • National identification card (must show photo, name, current address, date of birth, and expiration date)
  • U.S. driver’s license
  • Civil birth certificate (required for dependents under 18 years old)
  • Foreign driver’s license
  • U.S. state identification card
  • Foreign voter’s registration card
  • U.S. military identification card
  • Foreign military identification card
  • Visa
  • U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) photo identification
  • Medical records (dependents - under 14, under 18 if a student)
  • School records (dependents - under 14, under age 18 if a student)
**
Why is IRS revising the ITIN application process?
**
The revisions to the ITIN application process will help ensure ITINs are used for their intended tax administration purposes.
irs.gov/individuals/article/0,id=96287,00.html

It is intended for LEGAL Aliens who can not because of their LEGAL work status can not get a Social Security Number / Card.
Who needs an ITIN?
IRS issues ITINs to foreign nationals and others who have federal tax reporting or filing requirements and do not qualify for SSNs. A non-resident alien individual not eligible for a SSN, who is required to file a U.S. tax return only to claim a refund of tax under the provisions of a U.S. tax treaty, needs an ITIN.
Examples of individuals who need ITINs include:
  • Non-resident alien filing a U.S. tax return and not eligible for a SSN
  • U.S. resident alien (based on days present in the United States) filing a U.S. tax return and not eligible for a SSN
  • Dependent or spouse of a U.S. citizen/resident alien
  • Dependent or spouse of a non-resident alien visa holder
Continued
 
Actually. 1)** Even if they don’t pay social security, they will never have access to the benefits, so it is ultimately a moot point **Actually no. Social Security was never setup as an Individuals retirement Fund …It’s a Trust fund setup for the “Common good”.

So it isn’t moot.
It is also the Law.
Everyone who works needs a Social Security number (SSN). As an employer, you are required to get each worker’s name and SSN and to enter them on the employee’s Form W-2. Use the Social Security Number Verification Service
 
What is a country when borders are taken down? Take down a border,no country.

Concerning the war with Mexico and the independence of Texas and other states, many Mexicans helped us fight that war BECAUSE, Mexico at that time suppressed the people of Mexico. The US helped free people once again.
Given that the English-speaking immigrants to Mexican territory were largely slaveholders, and that the addition of the Southwest to the United States helped strengthen the position of slavery (and that the Mexican War was widely condemned by abolitionists as a war fought to extend slavery), I think your statement is naive and at best one-sided.

Of course, the idea of fighting wars to “free people” by putting them under our military occupation instead of the corrupt rule of people of their own culture is still alive and well and bearing poisonous fruit more than a century and a half later.
I get so sick and tired of these liberal people “blame America 1st”.
I could list things that make me sick and tired too. But that’s not argument, is it?
If America is so bad, go to a socialist Nation somewhere.
That’s a silly statement. First of all, I never suggested that America was worse than other nations. All nations are made up of sinful people. America happens to be the country where I live, because my parents moved back here when I was six. I would have no problem moving to another country if the opportunity arose, but I also have no problem living here. (I’m not an American citizen, which should make you happy because I pay taxes but do not vote.) I’d probably rather live in Britain given the choice–not that Britain is any paradise! No country is paradise–this shouldn’t have to be stated.
Freeing people is a duty as a Christian Nation, NOT stealing as Contarini said. THAT is the Christian way, not to turn your head and let people go into a socialist/communist drug lord state.
Freeing people through warfare is self-contradictory. Invasion and military occupation don’t free people (except where one clearly defined group is oppressing another clearly defined group, and even there it’s a measure only to be undertaken as the absolute last resort).

But in fact you need to show me where at the time Americans claimed that they were engaging in the war to free the Spanish-speaking Mexicans.
Also, if Mexicans are against what their country stands for, it is up to them to change it. Not run from it. American people would stay and change it’s own gov’t if it were the case.
You have blatantly contradicted yourself. First you say that someone living in America who thinks America engages in unjust wars and passes unjust laws should go move to another country. Now you say that Americans would not do this (and you seem to approve). What gives? Should people who disapprove of the policies of the country in which they live stay and change their government (as you say in the passage immediately above) or move to another country (as you said earlier in the post)?

More rationality and fewer declarations of being “sick and tired” would help your case.

Edwin
 
I’ll tackle this one first 🙂

Actually, no. The Individual Tax Identification Number requires LEGAL alien status Identification…i.e such as a non expired Passport…Green Card…Work Visas…etc.

It is intended for LEGAL Aliens who can not because of their LEGAL work status can not get a Social Security Number / Card.

Continued
…just because immigrants are illegal in the US doesn’t mean they don’t have an identity. Let me list the forms of identification that an illegal immigrant could have (that are on your list):
  1. Foreign Passport
    • National identification card (must show photo, name, current address, date of birth, and expiration date) (I’m assuming this can be from their native country)
    • U.S. driver’s license (if they arrived here legally and overstayed their visa)
    • Civil birth certificate (required for dependents under 18 years old) (duh)
    • Foreign driver’s license (totally possible)
    • Foreign voter’s registration card (if they are over 18)
    • Foreign military identification card
    • Visa (depends if you mean expired or still valid, but if it can be expired, then…)
    • Medical records (dependents - under 14, under 18 if a student)
    • School records (dependents - under 14, under age 18 if a student)
They can have all these forms of identification, so they would be able to get a personal ID number for paying taxes.

And as to social security:
  1. You don’t get any benefits unless you pay for it…if you don’t have a social security number and pay taxes, then you cannot ask them for money.
  2. And as for the fact that not having a SSN is illegal, i’m guessing that’s kind of assumed. These people are obviously breaking the law, it’s something known as an illegal immigrant. I’m not saying that it’s a good thing, but ultimately that we should be more sensitive to their issues and the issues in their home country. The fact that they don’t have an SSN doesn’t hurt any Americans because the system is already overloading…the less people have it the better, actually.
 
Ya I do.
Lets see when applying for a Job here, or for that fact when they are posted they say must be bilingual, (spanish speaking) This kind of sign is in stores, Dr. offices, my dentist had a sign that said that. This is in the U.S.A. Texas. Talk about pointing fingers, you are doing the same thing. All that needs to be done is secure the border and inforce the current laws. I quess you don’t live in a border state where this is a major problem. How would you feel if your job was taken by a illegal because the would work for less money?
  1. According to the Center for Immigration studies ‘“there is little apparent relationship between recent immigration and unemployment rates at the regional, state, or county level.” Areas with high unemployment don’t necessarily have large numbers of recent immigrants, and vice versa — areas with many recent immigrants don’t necessarily have higher unemployment rates’
  2. Mexicans stealing American jobs is nowhere near the problem of outsourcing to China or Taiwan which literally has destroyed cities and towns and lives. Why aren’t you complaining about the Chinese stealing American jobs, or about the rich business owners taking away American jobs?
  3. Instead of complaining on a Catholic forum about how you need to learn spanish, go out and learn it. It will be more useful for you in the long term. Even if all the illegal immigrants disappear, you will still need to communicate with the legal ones. Your problem doesn’t seem to be with illegal immigrants, it’s with Hispanics.
  4. I have family living both in San Diego and southern AZ and they have never complained as much as you do. Sure, they interact with illegal and legal immigrants daily, but they are more willing accept each immigrant as a person, not as a collective whole. From the way you are talking it sounds like you are grouping “illegal immigrants” into one group who conspired together to come to America to ruin your life. They all came individually, for their own reasons, and we need to treat them as individuals.
Forgive me if my language is harsh, I did debate in high school, I can’t resist 🙂 …But if it seems offensive on your side of the screen, please forgive me.
 
My issue is that the forces of international powers are using the poor as economic weapons, Mexico has abided and promoted illegal immigration – their state sponsored booklets were being passed out to the indigenous of their own country, about 6,000 Americans have died by illegal aliens, either through crime or accidents, there seems to be more blame pointed at the USA vs Mexico itself…Mexico needs to have more focus on corruption in its own country and why they have such extreme poverty, when there are border pictures that come right up to fences, prosperity on America’s side, a barren desert on the Mexican side…

Different mentalities.

You can pour all the money you want into poor countries, but if they are oppressed by their own corrupt powers, and there is no infrastructure to administrate and inculturate better economic lifestyles, all is moot.

American economy is based on the free market. FDR brought in social welfare. The two have to go together as we will always have the indifferent rich and the poor.

Wars are never justified…but they essentially all stem from pride and greed.
 
I read another comment by the American bishops of how much illegals pay into the system through taxes…$9 billion.
 
Ya I do.
Lets see when applying for a Job here, or for that fact when they are posted they say must be bilingual, (spanish speaking) This kind of sign is in stores, Dr. offices, my dentist had a sign that said that. This is in the U.S.A. Texas. Talk about pointing fingers, you are doing the same thing. All that needs to be done is secure the border and inforce the current laws. I quess you don’t live in a border state where this is a major problem. How would you feel if your job was taken by a illegal because the would work for less money?
Then provide the source,I am curious to see what agency provided the information.Okay,but simply because it says one must be bilingual does not mean it is a legal law. Nothing prevents one from applying for the job. That is the U.S.A. Texas? Time for a history lesson,Texas at one time belonged to who? Spain and Mexico? Hispanics had been on Texas long before any white person set foot on it. Generation after generation of Spanish and Mexicans have lived there.Is that a reason for them not to learn English? Nope! Finally,the entire U.S. at one time belonged to Native Americans,so don’t forget who lived here centuries before any U.S. American.

Yes be proud to be American,because I too love this country,but how easily so many Americans forget that at one time white people were ILLEGAL ALIENS on this land.

Pointing fingers? That is right! The goverment because they are the ones who fail to reform laws and set up the systems,not immigrants. I got news for you, I was raised in San Diego and currently live in Riverside County,which north of SD County,so I live in state much more populated than Texas,so I understand the many on-going issues.
How would you feel if your job was taken by a illegal because the would work for less money?
Oh please! That is such a cop out! Tell me what JOBS are they taking Rev Kevin? Washing plates? Back breaking work in the agricutural fields? Janitorial work? If so many Americans are using that line of jobs are being taken,then why is it Rev Kev I do not see to many PROUD AMERICANS running out there to get those jobs? On top of that,one born here speaks fluent English,so what is the problem?

So Rev Kev,what is stopping those so concerned Americans whining about illegals taking our jobs? I do not see any white Americans or black Americans eager to get those jobs during these tough times. Bunch of baloney!
 
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