Catholic church slams Israel razing of its property

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april32010 said:
zionism = racism 🤷
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This is property we are talking about here, does not matter who owns it! It was the demolition of a property not an attack on the Church.

In answer to your shrug, Zionism does not equal racism.
 
Very sad and upset to hear this. Israel has no respect for God nor men. Pray for peace in the Middle East.
 
TRH1292 said:
Very sad and upset to hear this. Israel has no respect for God nor men. Pray for peace in the Middle East.
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Israel has no respect for God because they tore down a building? That statement is very upsetting and very sad to hear.

Lord, have mercy.
 
In response to your queries, my statement is not so much just because of this one article, but because of the totality of Israel’s actions. Constantly destroying the homes and lives of Palestinians, and a dehumanizing aggressive attitude to those around them, promoting war, violence, and distrust.
 
This reminds me of an interesting book entitled In Search of Fatima, written by a Palestinian refugee Ghada Karmi - see here amazon.com/In-Search-Fatima-Palestinian-Story/dp/1844673685 .

A few quotes from readers’ reviews:

By Ronald Bleier:
“Her family was forced out of their comfortable West Jerusalem home by Jewish attacks meant to rid the area of Palestinians beginning in January 1948. Finally the infamous Deir Yassin massacre of April 9, 1948 made them realize months and weeks after most of their neighbors that their personal safety was at risk.”

By Nancy A Ferguson:
"G. Karmi’s book presents a side of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict that is seldom seen. Through the eyes of this little girl (8-9 years of age) we see the tragedy that has been inflicted on the stateless Palestinian people through no fault of their own. Ghada writes of her family’s terrifying escape from Jerusalem under Israeli gunfire–leaving their home and possessions behind.
50 years later, Ghada does return to what is now Israel–and to
her city of Jerusalem. Briefly, she is able to visit her childhood home, now occupied by Jewish immigrants. She and her family were never compensated in any way for their
loss of home, possessions and country.

The author presents many insights about the culture in Jerusalem before the Israeli takeover. She describes the open, social interactions between Jews, Christians and Muslims at that earlier time. She and her family are Muslim."
 
According to Ghada Karmi, terrorism was a Jewish invention, and it was practiced by Jewish terrorists during the 1940s, before the Palestinians adopted it later in the 1970s. Ms Karmi’s family fled Jerusalem after some Jewish terrorists blew up a Palestinian neighbor’s house in 1948. Yet, they were hoping to return to their home, but were denied entry by the newly formed state of Israel. This is how Ghada Karmi and her family became refugees. Her parents were never allowed to return home to Jerusalem, they finally died and were buried in a neighboring country (Syria?).

Ms. Karmi, since she became a British citizen, was allowed to visit Jerusalem, where she was born and lived for the first 9 years of her life, but only as a British tourist with a tourist visa. The Israeli authorities made it clear to her that she was not allowed to return to live to her birthplace, and to her house, in Jerusalem. Also, neither her parents, nor her, ever received any compensation for their house which was given to Jewish settlers.

My thinking is that when the state of Israel is razing a Catholic church’s property, it is acting consistently with what it has been doing to Palestinian people since 1948.
 
It isn’t really the Jews who invented it, it was David Ben-Gurion, the first Prime Minister and also a cad. He ordered a lot of razing of Palestinian property during the early days of the Jewish state. Very, very bad man.
 
Let’s stop the anti-Jewish polemic please. It does not help the cause of peace that we all recognize is so important.
 
For perspective, compare for a moment how Israelis treat Palestinians to how Texans (Americans in general, really) would likely treat Mexicans if there were a Mexican “intifada” on our south border that involved Mexican suicide bombers, Mexicans blowing up American dance clubs full of young adults, Mexicans launching masses of mortars and rockets into Texas, etc. The situation is not terribly different in substance: Texas exists because Americans moved in, pushed the locals out, won a military conflict for the land against its former owners and created national borders that the former residents aren’t allowed to legally cross without almost impossible to obtain paperwork.

Were Mexicans like Palestinians in their response, I suspect there would be an American committed genocide that would fit right in with the Irgun and Stern Gang actions of the late 1940’s in Palestine.

The difference is in the leadership of the peoples. Mexican leadership long ago recognized a lost cause and chose a negotiated peace in the best interests of their people. Palestinian leadership (then and now) cares almost nothing for the wellbeing of their people and everything for their pride and their hatred of the Jews.

The nation of Israel is far from perfect and have committed genuine wrongs. But in the big picture, they’re no worse than the republic of Texas was in it’s day. The conflict continues today NOT primarily because Israel still provokes the Palestinians but because the Palestinians have zero interest in finding a peaceful way to coexist.
 
AndrewRaZ said:
Let’s stop the anti-Jewish polemic please. It does not help the cause of peace that we all recognize is so important.
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It’s anti-Israel, not anti-Jewish. The country and their leaders are the problem, not the religion/ethnicity.
 
manualman said:
Texas exists because Americans moved in, pushed the locals out,
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When I visited the Smoky Mountains National Park, I learned that the American settlers and the American government implemented a forced repatriation program for the Cherokee (Native American) Nation in Georgia and North Carolina. Tens of thousands of Cherokee were forced to quit their native lands, the land in which their ancestors lived and were buried, because the American settlers wanted the Cherokee lands for themselves. The Cherokee call this national tragedy the Trail of Tears, since they were chased away from their native lands and forced to make a long trek to be re-settled in Oklahoma, during winter time, and many Cherokee people died of cold, hunger, and sickness during this trek which they call the Trail of Tears.

Forgive my ignorance, did something similar happen in Texas? Did the American settlers chase away the Native American and/or Hispanic residents of Texas, in order to take their lands and other property?
 
OurLadyPray4US said:
Forgive my ignorance, did something similar happen in Texas? Did the American settlers chase away the Native American and/or Hispanic residents of Texas, in order to take their lands and other property?
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The trail of tears was worse than the Texas situation and it’s worse than the Israel / Palestine situation, so I didn’t use it as an example. It was a true genocide and hyperbole aside, the Israel / Palestine conflict has NOT reached that status yet (nor did the Texans).

Neither Israel nor Texas forced non-combatant natives out at gunpoint during the conflict. Both refused to allow combatants or their families to return to conquered territory after the battles. Plenty of non-combatant Palestinians evacuated the intended combat zone in 1947 as their leaders assured them that they would be exterminating all the vermin Jews so as to make it safe before civilians could return. Some followed those leader’s advice and some didn’t. When Israel won that war, they granted citizenship to those Palestinians who did NOT facilitate the Palestinian combat plans by evacuating and by considering those who did leave to be collaborators. One can debate the morality of this policy, but I daresay it is rather more generous than the Palestinians would have been to Jewish civilians if the proto-PLO had won its initial war. They’d have treated the Jews like the American settlers treated the Cherokee (my wife is 1/16 Cherokee).

History hobby horse alert! Isn’t it interesting that US school textbooks to this day describe the Spanish colonial efforts as Conquistadors who were motivated by lust for gold, slaves and territory to dominate, while the English came “in search of religious freedom and opportunities for trade.” Strange, isn’t it that in SOUTH America, where the nefarious catholic Spaniards settled, nearly everyone you meet has clear native genes in them, while the “peaceful settler” English very nearly committed a continent’s worth of genocide? Catholics need to recognize that the strong side generally writes the historical narrative painting itself to be the good guys and the other to be evil. Thus, I applaud people who try to listen to both sides of conflict stories and look at the objective facts on the ground and compare them to the rhetoric. But it’s also not enough to conclude that whoever is currently winning is the bad guy. It’s hard to cut through the amount of propaganda out there today. Keep working at it!
 
OurLadyPray4US said:
When I visited the Smoky Mountains National Park, I learned that the American settlers and the American government implemented a forced repatriation program for the Cherokee (Native American) Nation in Georgia and North Carolina. Tens of thousands of Cherokee were forced to quit their native lands, the land in which their ancestors lived and were buried, because the American settlers wanted the Cherokee lands for themselves. The Cherokee call this national tragedy the Trail of Tears, since they were chased away from their native lands and forced to make a long trek to be re-settled in Oklahoma, during winter time, and many Cherokee people died of cold, hunger, and sickness during this trek which they call the Trail of Tears.

Forgive my ignorance, did something similar happen in Texas? Did the American settlers chase away the Native American and/or Hispanic residents of Texas, in order to take their lands and other property?
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The Trail of Tears went very near where I presently sit. It was a bad thing, but it wasn’t entirely as we sometimes see represented. Many of the Cherokees were wealthy, saw it coming, and transferred their money to Ft. Smith banks before the trip, and were wealthy still when they arrived. Some brought their black slaves with them as well. Many fought for the Confederacy not long afterward under Cherokee Gen. Stand Watie. Many, many, many of them simply deserted the seemingly loosely-guarded trek, which is why seemingly everyone around here is at least part Cherokee. Likely that’s true along the entire trail.

Texas was more complicated. When the Anglo-Texans arrived, most of Texas (nominally part of Mexico) was actually ruled by Comanches who had previously driven out the Apaches. A good part of Texas was dubbed “Comancheria” because no one could go there and live if he was not Comanche. The Comanches nearly destroyed life in northern Mexico because they annually raided there in force, killing, looting and carrying off slaves.

The main Texan war with Indians was with the Comanches. And given the nature of their society, it’s hard to fault the Texans too much for it. There were conflicts with other tribes, but nothing approaching that with the Comanches. Some smaller tribes, like the Tonkawas, so hated the Comanches that they joined with the Texan forces in combating them.

There was a primitive, cannibal (according to some) tribe on the Gulf Coast called the Karankawas. It is my impression that they were largely wiped out by disease.
 
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