Catholic Church & the Liberals

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MrJim

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I am very drawn toward Rome~one of the things that comes up though is the ongoing battle with the liberal aspects of the Catholic Church. In my studies I find myself in an Eastern Orthodox/Catholic pull, and the Catholic Church is winning. But the liberal issues I read about seem to be a real problem…or is it?

Is the problem as serious as it sounds, or is it a loud minority? I read about all sorts of things, but maybe it’s not as bad as it sounds? I know of a couple of real solid Catholic folks that were so angered by some of these issues that they converted to Eastern Orthodox.

Appreciate your imput~this seemed to be the closest forum to post this thread~if a Mod has a better place then please move it there. CAF is a cool forum; I spend more time reading than posting…it’s like OBOB on steroids:thumbsup:
 
It is a big problem. However, it’s a dieing one because it doesn’t foster vocations nor descendants.

Yet, it seems to be sort of contained. I mean, it can certainly be found in this or that parish or even in this or that diocese. The fact is that more often than not it’s possible to find a parish that’s orthodox, even if it’s an Eastern Catholic one.

:blessyou:
 
I think a lot of it has to do with your state of mind…if you’re looking for trouble, you’re sure to find it…in any church or denomination for that matter.

The difference is, the Protestants just go down the street and start another church…while we Catholics just dicker with each other.

😃
 
Welcome to CAF and to the Catholic Church–in anticipation, that is. 🙂 I will keep you in my prayers. Have you been attending Mass or just been reading and praying on your own?

A good deal of the odd experimentations and beliefs that followed on the heels of Vatican II (but were instigated long before it and had nothing to do with it) are dying out as the generation that brought them in is dying out. More and more parishes, Catholic colleges, seminaries, dioceses, religious orders, etc. are re-embracing orthodoxy instead of heterodoxy in belief and practice. It’s too bad your friends baled out just on the cusp of true renewal.

However, this is a very good time to come into the Catholic Church. It’s great you’re looking into the CC with a desire for truth. No matter how nutty some people might get within it, the Catholic Church has never and will never change its doctrines or dogma, although disciplines and devotions change as time goes by–they have meaning and are important in their own right, but are not vital to faith and morals.

I hope that helps. Please ask any questions you might have. We want you to be able to enter the Church with a full heart and peace of mind.
 
Della said:
Welcome to CAF and to the Catholic Church–in anticipation, that is. 🙂 I will keep you in my prayers. Have you been attending Mass or just been reading and praying on your own?

A good deal of the odd experimentations and beliefs that followed on the heels of Vatican II (but were instigated long before it and had nothing to do with it) are dying out as the generation that brought them in is dying out. More and more parishes, Catholic colleges, seminaries, dioceses, religious orders, etc. are re-embracing orthodoxy instead of heterodoxy in belief and practice. It’s too bad your friends baled out just on the cusp of true renewal.

However, this is a very good time to come into the Catholic Church. It’s great you’re looking into the CC with a desire for truth. No matter how nutty some people might get within it, the Catholic Church has never and will never change its doctrines or dogma, although disciplines and devotions change as time goes by–they have meaning and are important in their own right, but are not vital to faith and morals.

I hope that helps. Please ask any questions you might have. We want you to be able to enter the Church with a full heart and peace of mind.
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I have attended Mass several times over the past couple years; gone forward for blessing, went to an Ash Wednesday service, went to a Saturday and a some Sundays at different times~one of the Sunday Masses was a more contemporary music theme (?) very different than all the other ones; it was well done and not over-the-top like some I’ve seen in protestant services (a mennonite praise band comes to mind:rolleyes: no kidding).

I would suppose that the bottom line is that we are talking the Church~and regardless of what is thrown it will still be standing.
 
Latin is a surefire Liberal-repellant. If you can find a Church that offers Latin Masses you can be sure it will be pretty free from liberal influences
 
JuanCarlos said:
Latin is a surefire Liberal-repellant. If you can find a Church that offers Latin Masses you can be sure it will be pretty free from liberal influences
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You could equally substitute “convert” for “liberal” in your quote.

How many of today’s converts would have been turned away if everything was still in Latin?

Further, your statement “Latin is a surefire Liberal-repellant” reeks of arrogance and elitism. You see Latin as a “tool” to “repel” those who don’t abide all of your personal beliefs?

:eek:
 
ethelzguy said:
You could equally substitute “convert” for “liberal” in your quote.

How many of today’s converts would have been turned away if everything was still in Latin?
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Not this new convert (I entered the Church this past Easter). I love the EF and my husband and I attend the archdiocese’s FSSP parish at least twice a month. My husband, who is not yet Catholic but is seriously considering it, also loves the EF. If our home parish were to offer a regular Sunday EF mass, it would be the only one we would attend.
 
MrJim said:
… one of the Sunday Masses was a more contemporary music theme (?) very different than all the other ones…
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It was perhaps Mass geared towards teenagers and to the youth in general. Some parishes have them, others don’t; some of such Masses are well done, some aren’t. I myself despise them 😛 and go only as a last resort.

:blessyou:
 
ethelzguy said:
You could equally substitute “convert” for “liberal” in your quote.

How many of today’s converts would have been turned away if everything was still in Latin?

Further, your statement “Latin is a surefire Liberal-repellant” reeks of arrogance and elitism. You see Latin as a “tool” to “repel” those who don’t abide all of your personal beliefs?

:eek:
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I’m a convert who definitely prefers the EF. We had more converts before the changes than afterwards, This idea about converts might have some substance, definitely, but having more EFs in addition to the “normal” parishes will also draw in more converts.

Latin does keep the liberals out. I never heard a sermon about gay marriage.hell/womens’ ordination until I went to an EF Church. Your OF Church might be different, though.
 
ethelzguy said:
Is that what you’re after? To “keep the liberals out”? Is that what Christ and his Church calls us to do? :eek:
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No, surely not. But what happens if we don’t make them Catholic? I was once a postmodernist liberal myself. Virtually all of my friends are liberals. I don’t think the Latin keeps out secular liberals. I think it prevents warping concepts to fit a particular ideology, due to its rigidness in regards to meaning and its antiquity.

I wouldn’t want anyone kept out. I also, though, wouldn’t want to become confused again as to what we believe.
 
ethelzguy said:
So, you are saying that a “liberal Catholic” in your mind is not a Catholic?
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Yes. I don’t consider pro-choicers to be “true Catholics,” in the same way that I don’t consider advocates of other forms of murder to be true Catholics.
 
MrJim said:
I have attended Mass several times over the past couple years; gone forward for blessing, went to an Ash Wednesday service, went to a Saturday and a some Sundays at different times~one of the Sunday Masses was a more contemporary music theme (?) very different than all the other ones; it was well done and not over-the-top like some I’ve seen in protestant services (a mennonite praise band comes to mind:rolleyes: no kidding).
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The “contemporary”/“praise and worship” style Mass settings are generally meant for the young people, although many adults of the 60’s variety seem attracted to them, as well (as someone who was young in the 60’s I feel I can say that 😉). Coming from a Pentecostal background into the CC I find them jarring and lacking in reverence–that’s just my opinion. I prefer a plain, simple OF done according to the rubrics with more traditional musical settings.
I would suppose that the bottom line is that we are talking the Church~and regardless of what is thrown it will still be standing.
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Yes. I love what G. K. Chesterton wrote about the orthodox Church:

People have fallen into a foolish habit of speaking of orthodoxy as something heavy, humdrum, and safe. There never was anything so perilous or so exciting as orthodoxy. It was sanity: and to be sane is more dramatic than to be mad . . . The orthodox Church never took the tame course or accepted the conventions; the orthodox Church was never respectable . . . It is easy to be a madman: it is easy to be a heretic. It is always easy to let the age have its head; the difficult thing is to keep one’s own. It is always easy to be a modernist; as it is easy to be a snob . . . It is always simple to fall; there are an infinity of angles at which one falls, only one at which one stands. To have fallen into any one of the fads from Gnosticism to Christian Science would indeed have been obvious and tame. But to avoid them all has been one whirling adventure; and in my vision the heavenly chariot flies thundering through the ages, the dull heresies sprawling and prostrate, the wild truth reeling but erect. – G K Chesterton {Orthodoxy, Garden City, NY: Doubleday Image, 1908, pp. 100-101}

If you haven’t read his Orthodoxy I think you’d enjoy it. Also, The Everlasting Man, and The Catholic Church and Conversion.
 
PrayforMallory said:
Yes. I don’t consider pro-choicers to be “true Catholics,” in the same way that I don’t consider advocates of other forms of murder to be true Catholics.
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But that’s not what you imply in your posts…your posts imply that those who are happy with the post V2 Church are somehow “less Catholic”.
 
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