Catholic Considering Islam

[sedonaman]

Conclusion does not follow from the premises. Can you provide a second premise and write it as a valid syllogism? I don’t even know how you could do this, since you already have four terms. It is possible to worship God in a mistaken manner, or to have bad theology.

Two quantities [Allah and God] equal to a third quantity [dhimmitude] are equal to each other. Since Allah equals dhimmitude and God does not, Allah does not equal God.

 

[AdrianP]

Look here:
New Law is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than Old Law and Christianity is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than Judaism and is not supposed to follow JUDAISM

amazon.com/tag/christianity/forum/ref=cm_cd_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx77WQHU8YS50Z&cdThread=Tx3SL6ITIY9PDCW&displayType=tagsDetail

Matthew 26
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

This is from a Protestant web site. I don’t have the capacity to take one by one and analyse this but however, as an information it gives you an idea about differences between OLD LAW and NEW LAW.

Mosaic Covenant New Covenant
Came by Moses John 1:17 Came by Christ Heb. 8:6, 9:15
Law of Moses Acts 13:38-39 Law of Christ Gal. 6:2
Law of sin Rom. 7:5-6 Law of righteousness Rom. 9:30-31
Law of the flesh Rom. 7:5-6 Law of the Spirit Rom. 8:2
Not of faith Gal. 3:2 Law of faith Rom. 3:27
Yoke of bondage Gal. 5:1 Law of liberty Jam. 1:25
Ended by Christ Rom. 10:4 Established by Christ Heb. 8:6, 10:9
Law of death II Cor. 3:7 Law of life Gal. 3:11, 6:8
Entangles Gal. 5:1 Makes free John 8:32, 36
A shadow Col. 2:14-17 The reality Heb. 10:1-18
Fulfilled Mat. 5:17-18 Now in force Heb. 8:6, 10:9
Leaves imperfect Heb. 7:19 Makes perfect Heb. 7:19
Glorious II Cor. 3:7 More glorious II Cor. 3:8-10
Powerless to save Heb. 9:9, 10:4 Saves to uttermost Heb. 7:25
Many sacrifices Heb. 9:12-13 One sacrifice for sin Heb. 10:12
Temporary priest Heb. 7:23 Eternal priest Heb. 7:17
Remembers sins Heb. 10:3 Forgets sins Heb. 8:12, 10:17
Yearly atonement Heb. 10:3 Eternal atonement Heb. 10:14
Priests have sin Heb. 5:1-4 Sinless priest Heb. 7:26
Aaronic priesthood >Heb. 7:11 Melchisedec priesthood Heb. 5:5-10, 7:21
Out of Levi Heb 7:11 Out of Judah Heb. 7:14
Animal sacrifices Heb. 9:12 Human sacrifice Heb. 9:14-28
Earthly tabernacle Heb. 9:2 Heavenly tabernacle Heb. 8:2
Imperfect mediator Gal. 3:19 Sinless mediator I Tim. 2:5
No inheritance Rom. 4:13 Eternal inheritance Heb. 9:15
Instituted upon animal blood Heb. 9:16-22 Instituted upon blood of Christ Mat. 26-28
Works wrath Rom. 4:15 Saves from wrath Rom. 5:9
Non-redeeming Heb. 10:4 Redeems Gal. 3:13, Heb. 9:12-15
Non-pleasing Ps. 40:6 Pleasing to God Heb 10:5-18
Abolishment predicted Is. 51:6 Establishment predicted Heb. 8:7
Circumcision Ex. 12:48 No circumcision Rom. 4:9-12
Made to change Heb. 7:12, Gal. 3:25 Made eternal Heb. 13:20
Faulty Heb. 8:7 Perfect James 1:25
Weak Heb. 7:18 Strong Heb. 7:25
Unprofitable Heb. 7:18 Profitable Heb. 7:19,25
Natural program Heb. 9:10-14 Spiritual program II Cor. 3:6, 18
Daily program Heb. 7:27 Finished program Heb. 10:10-18
Infirm high priests Heb. 5:2, 7:28 Perfect high priest Heb. 7:26
Made priests by law Heb. 7:12, 28 Made priests by an oath Heb. 7:21, 28
No salvation Heb. 10:2-4 Eternal salvation Heb. 5:9, 10:10
Perfected nothing Heb. 7:19 Perfects believers Heb. 7:19, 10:14
Earthly priests Heb. 5:1-4 Heavenly priest Heb. 9:24, 10:12
Repeated inability Heb. 10:11 Glorious success Heb. 10:10-18
Many offerings Heb. 9:7 One offering Heb. 10:10-14
Good promises Dt. 28:1-14 Better promises Heb. 8:6
A good covenant Rom 7:12 A better covenant Heb. 7:22, 8:6
Many high priests Heb. 7:23 One high priest Heb. 7:24-28
Typical tabernacle Heb. 9 True tabernacle Heb. 8:2, 9:11
No mercy Heb. 10:28 Complete mercy Heb. 8:12
Handmade things Heb. 9:1-5, 24 Not handmade Heb. 9:23-24
An old way Heb. 8:13 New and living way Heb. 10:19-20
Unavailing ministers Heb. 7:18 Able ministers II Cor. 3:6
Carnal ministry Heb. 9:9-10 Spiritual ministry II Cor. 3:6
Ministration of condemnation II Cor. 3:9 Ministration of righteousness II Cor. 3:9
Glory covered II Cor. 3:13 Glory uncovered II Cor. 3:18
Brings bondage Gal. 4:24-25 Brings liberty II Cor. 3:17
Cannot justify Gal. 2:16 Does justify Acts 13:38-39
Brings a curse Gal. 3:10 Redeems from the curse Gal. 3:13
Live by works Gal 3:10 Live by faith Gal. 3:11
Cannot give life Gal. 3:21 Does give life John 6:63-68
Exposes sin Gal 3:19 Covers sin Rom. 4:1-8
Under law Rom 6:14-15 Under grace Gal. 3:22-25
Done away II Cor. 3:7-14 Not done away II Cor. 3:11
Abolished II Cor. 3:13 Continues glorious II Cor. 3:11
Ministry of death II Cor. 3:7 Reconciliation ministry II Cor. 5:18
For Israel only Dt. 4:7-8, 5:3 For all men Luke 22:20, Mark 14:24

If you want to be part of NEW LAW you can come to Catholic or ORTHODOX CHURCH I think Judaism is following the OLD LAW. I think that Islam and Protestantism may be in between.

What come from new LAW:
HOLY COMMUNION for eternal life.
John 6:54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
BAPTISM and the 7 MYSTERIES.

Orthodox Christianity beside most religious doesn’t stop to this life an through the 7 Mysteries can work in the other life.
At Pentecost Apostles received Holy Spirit and gave it to Bishops and to priests to ordination. Bishops could give Holy Spirit to other priests in ordination. By receiving Holy Spirit through ordination the Priests are TRUE priests and they can FORGIVE SINS, they can give Holy Communion for eternal life and such.
Now Luther not being a bishop could not ordain priests so I don’t know what protestants priests can do, Hopefull they can do everything but I don’t know and there si a RISK being protestant .

I don’t know about any Imam giving Holy Communion for ETERNAL LIFE to his people.

 

[sedonaman]

That’s a remarkably silly argument.

And that is an ad hominem. Where is the proof that it is “silly”?

You are assuming that everything in Islam is the way Allah wants it. Why can’t we just say that Muslims get the will of Allah wrong at many points?

This is a distinct possibility with a high probability of being true because there is no way of knowing if Allah had changed his mind on some issue since he is not bound by anything.

Christians certainly get God’s will wrong frequently.

And that has exactly WHAT to do with Islam? Why do you always have to use Christianity as a comparison? Why not atheism? As I have posted before, if Christianity and Christian Scripture can be some gauge by which to measure and verify Islam, it can also be used to REFUTE Islam, which it certainly does because it contradicts Islamic doctrine regarding the basics of faith, i.e., God, Christ, salvation, etc. In any event, you’ve got to ask yourself why Mohammed used the Gospels to validate himself and Islam in the first place and later proclaimed them “corrupted”. So the Gospels can’t be trustworthy because the Bible is a corrupt document. If they are not trustworthy, how can they validate Mohammed and/or Islam? Mohammed can’t get here from there. So why doesn’t he stand on his own?

The lack of “dhimmitude” in Christian tradition could be seen as a flaw in Christianity if you focus on the Middle Ages.

That Christian tradition has flaws is absolutely IRRELEVANT to the egregious errors of Islamic doctrine, and you know it. Besides, why must you focus on the Middle Ages? And even THEN, if Christianity was committing all that evil, who precisely in Islam ever looked at the errors of Christianity and asked if Islam was making the same mistakes? You are comparing apples not with oranges but with tomatoes, i.e., Christian actions of 1,000 years ago with Islamic doctrine today, resulting in these conclusions:
In the past, some Christians have sometimes acted counter to Jesus’ teachings; therefore, – – > Christianity is evil.

There are some Muslims today sincerely seeking God; therefore, – – > Islam is good.
This magnification of the errors and sins of some Christians and attributing them to the teachings of Jesus coupled with the minimization [and/or the complete ignoring] of the errors of Islamic doctrine is a hallmark of the politically correct. I might add that political correctness was invented to conceal/deny truth.

… many things in those Scriptures indicated that unbelievers should be slaughtered wholesale (not just the OT but also Luke 19:27 and much of the Book of Revelation).

The “wholesale slaughter” of Luke 19:27 is your understanding. What is the official teaching? Which of Jesus’ apostles who heard Luke 19:27 immediately rounded up His enemies and slew them? If there were any, where is the evidence that they did? How did the New Testament miss that little tidbit? If not, then obviously the parable has some other meaning than the literal and is not an invocation to do violence against the enemies of Christ.

Another apples-tomatoes comparison you made is between the invocations of violence in the Qur’an against non-believers and the descriptions of alleged violence in the Apocalypse, which is not [repeat, **NOT] a general invocation for Christians to do violence to non-believers: “The Apocalypse might be crowned by the caption of ‘The Book of Victories’, for it depicts the victories of Jesus Christ, which culminate in His grand final triumph over Satan and all enemies. It would be more accurate to say that it depicts the last phase of the final victory over the archenemy.” – Rev. Herman Bernard Kramer, The Book of Destiny, p 22; NIHIL OBSTAT: J. S. Considine, O.P., Censor Deputatus; IMPRIMATUR: + Joseph M. Mueller, D.D., Bishop of Sioux City, Iowa, January 26, 1956

In the long run, I’m very glad that we don’t have passages enjoining dhimmitude, because the Holy Spirit has guided us to a much better conclusion – that we should not subjugate or oppress unbelievers at all. (Though some folks would argue that some things pushed for by conservative American Christians constitute a form of dhimmitude–perhaps that’s true in an extremely weak sense.)

Agreed.

Muslims are far more “boxed in” by the cultural context of their Scriptures than we are, which contradicts the Islamic claim that the Qur’an is directly from God and independent of cultural limitation.

This is interesting.

I have no problem with the idea that Akhenaton in some sense was worshiping the true God.

OK, but then again that would be your understanding.

 

[birdsong]

Convert them all? GREAT!! But … how do you propose to accomplish that? Do you have a magic wand or something? More specifically, how do you propose to convince the jihadists to change their views that are canonised in the form of laws, schools of jurisprudence, rulings, etc?

And while you are trying to “win their hearts” (just like Obama the appeaser in chief), how do you think we in the west should deal with those who are threatening to kill us EVERYDAY? More appeasement? More concessions?

So my “very concise” answer is: Convert them.

 

[TristanCross]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Not if s/he kills innocent people . killing any innocent person is a major sin in Islam . Fight on behalf of the oppressed people is a must.

And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allah, and for those weak, illtreated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is:

“Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help.”

( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #75)

Really? So what about 9/11? Were your people saints for killing my American brothers and sisters?

 

[planten]

Dear Cecilianus,

Let the Irish dude defend himself. You talk about me and then you do the same thing. Maybe you need to read his post again. I did not bash him. I strongly stated that he mentioned nothing of Jesus. He said God, God, God. Well, that represents to me Allah, Alah, Allah. He said Muslims he knew were much holier than the Catholics he knew.

I went to Catholic Schools as a child and loved the nuns. They were very tough on all matters of faith. They would respond just as I did. Speak the truth.

Again, I believe the Irish Dude should respond. I found his remarks extremely naive and thoughtless about the faith that we both believe in.

Respectfully,

jpaul1953

**jpaul, that is true. The christian missionaries were well trained and active. They sacrificed their time and money in cause of preaching. Church had good management. They spread all over the world in a planned way. Their effort was rewarded, no doubt. They gained many converts.

But we need to know the truth about our religion and your religion. We have no animosity against Catholics. Let every one learn the matters of others faith freely without prejudice, without hatred and without abuse.**

 

[Hadi]

Convert them all? GREAT!! But … how do you propose to accomplish that? Do you have a magic wand or something? More specifically, how do you propose to convince the jihadists to change their views that are canonised in the form of laws, schools of jurisprudence, rulings, etc?

And while you are trying to “win their hearts” (just like Obama the appeaser in chief), how do you think we in the west should deal with those who are threatening to kill us EVERYDAY? More appeasement? More concessions?

Gulf News
Riyadh: Britain has asked the help of Saudi counseling committees to rehabilitate its youth and convince them of denouncing terrorist ideologies, a pan-Arab newspaper quoted the British Counsel in Riyadh as saying.
In 2004, Saudi Arabia established counseling committees whose tasks are to encourage prisoners to renounce their extremist beliefs.
The committees comprise more than 100 ulema (Muslim scholars) and Islamic faith specialists as well as 30 psychiatrists, sociologists and psychologists. The committees hold five-week classes with 20 participants in each class focusing on concepts such as al walaa wal barraa (the principle of universal loyalty amongst the Muslims and absolute renunciation by Muslims of all non-Muslims), takfir (accusing other Muslims of apostasy), obeying the ruler and other issues.

 

[planten]

Originally Posted by Cecilianus
Planten, can you refresh our memories as to this? I seem to have left my copy of Qur’an at home when I left for college, so I can’t review surah 2 again. Is this referring to the incident of the Golden Calf at the foot of Mount Sinai? If not, then I would be extremely skeptical of it (and also quite curious as to where Muhammed got the story from), since the Old Testament is one of the most blatantly self-critical documents ever written, but doesn’t include any other episode of cattle worship

Cecilianus, I am sorry, I cannot refresh your memory. There was some definite connection of the Jews with the Cow. The matter is described in the Quran and I cannot relate that to anything in NT or OT. If you read the first 100 verses of the Quran, you will come to know most of the cow business. Not only the Jews were refusing to slaughter a special type of cow but they were guilty of making a calf and worshipping it. Samiri did that for them. Moses a.s. was very angry about that.

Moses had gone on the mount for thrity (30) days. He over satyed there by ten (10) more days. In his absence Samiri taught the calf worship to the Jews. Allah informed Moses about that and he came back and he was very angry. He even rebuked Aaron about that.

There is a very interesting good knowledge about the truth of Quran over the bibleOT description. But that I leave for next time. May Allah bless you.

 

[TristanCross]

If you want to be part of NEW LAW you can come to Catholic or ORTHODOX CHURCH I think Judaism is following the OLD LAW. I think that Islam and Protestantism may be in between.

Are you serious? Us Protestants don’t preach works that you have to work and fear for your salvation. We don’t preach that you must be baptized, confirmed, confess sins a lot, do good deeds, pray to Mary and saints, and die in a state of grace to be saved. Sorry if that offends you, but we refuse to accept extra biblical doctrines like cults often do. I can say that Biblical Christianity is the Gospel, that Judaism is the Old Law, and that Catholicism and Orthodoxy is in between (for they hold that we must sacrifice Jesus again and again to be saved, human traditions, and that we must obey laws and do good things for salvation). Christ didn’t come to save the righteous. He came for the sinners…

We don’t preach that you should kill in the name of God and that Mohammad was a good man…

We DO preach JESUS CHRIST. We preach that your money and works are useless in God’s eyes. DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT? You can never please God. Never. He chose us out of grace. We didn’t chose Him. We denied Him. It was His choice to lay His life down on the cross so we wouldn’t have to spend eternity in Hell. He who believes on Him will be saved.

John 3:14-15
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him."

John 5:24
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:40
For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 7:38
Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him."

Acts 10:43
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

Acts 13:39
Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

1 John 5:10
Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.

Acts 16:30-31
He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

Oh my Lord Jesus, how lost is the world? Bless them, for they know not what they do.

Islam on the same level as Protestantism? Really? I’ll pray for your sake. May God shine some light on you. Maybe he’ll soften your heart…

 

[birdsong]

LOL … and you think that a spurious news flash is going to seal the deal? are you serious or are you practicing good old Taquiya?

To make myself clear, I am going to give you a very simple and precise example: ALL Sunni schools of jurisprudence teach that people who leave Islam should be put to death. So, when you have evidence to present of a wholesale effort/discussion/debate at the highest levels of Sunni hierarchy that resulted in a change to the aforementioned ruling, and in which the newly changed ruling now states something along the lines of “Any and all Muslims who abandon Islam should never, under any circumstance, be put to death”, please come back to us with the great news.

But thanks for the laugh anyway, I needed it!

Gulf News
Riyadh: Britain has asked the help of Saudi counseling committees to rehabilitate its youth and convince them of denouncing terrorist ideologies, a pan-Arab newspaper quoted the British Counsel in Riyadh as saying.
In 2004, Saudi Arabia established counseling committees whose tasks are to encourage prisoners to renounce their extremist beliefs.
The committees comprise more than 100 ulema (Muslim scholars) and Islamic faith specialists as well as 30 psychiatrists, sociologists and psychologists. The committees hold five-week classes with 20 participants in each class focusing on concepts such as al walaa wal barraa (the principle of universal loyalty amongst the Muslims and absolute renunciation by Muslims of all non-Muslims), takfir (accusing other Muslims of apostasy), obeying the ruler and other issues.

 

[Hadi]

I thought you meant dealing with jihadists who engage in violence…

 

[planten]

From AdrianP:

What come from new LAW:
HOLY COMMUNION for eternal life.
John 6:54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day

.

** That is all true, what Jesus said. But would you take it literally? or metaphorically? Please tell. It could not be literal. Drinking the blood of Jesus and eating his flesh, How?.

Also explain (literally) if a person had eternal life, why would it be necessary to raise him up on the last day??

All these things need to be interpretted wisely. They have good meanings**.

 

[birdsong]

Your critical analysis skills are evidently lacking, so I am going to spell it out building on the example that I gave you regarding Muslims that are killed just because they abandoned Islam.

Is it difficult to establish a connection between the people who kill ex-muslims just because they renounced their faith and their motivation to commit such crimes? Not difficult at all! And you know why? Because that is something they learned somewhere. (hint: ALL Sunni schools of jurisprudence say that apostates should be killed).

So you have to address the source that encouraged such criminal behaviour (hint: ALL sunni schools of jurisprudence …). At the same time, you also have to deal with those who have committed the crime of murdering an ex-muslim. If you ask me how I’d deal with those criminals, it’s very simple, common and uncomplicated: I’d put them in jail for life.

I thought you meant dealing with jihadists who engage in violence…

 

[Cecilianus]

.

** That is all true, what Jesus said. But would you take it literally? or metaphorically? Please tell. It could not be literal. Drinking the blood of Jesus and eating his flesh, How?.**

Under the appearances of bread and wine. When Christians receive Communion, Christ is truly present - what we are receiving is actually, really, and truly the body of blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ, communicated through the medium of the appearances (including all the chemical and physical properties) of the bread and wine.

This can be shown as well from the surah “The Banquet”. The banquet is a feast from Heaven - and who is the proper occupant of Heaven, if not God? Heaven is often used - for example, in a Chinese idiom - as a synonym for God. In everyday speech, to say that something comes from Heaven is to say that it comes from God - and the context makes it quite clear that the “banquet from Heaven” is not simply an ordinary meal (which, being a gift from God, is also from Him), but rather a celestial meal - the gift of God Himself.

Secondly, denying the reality of this heavenly is a mortal sin, or (to use less Catholic terminology) those who deny it are specifically mentioned as being damned (you’ll have to look this up for yourself, since I left my copy of the Quran at home - end of surah 3). Only the rejection of God can merit damnation; created things cannot bear that sort of infinite gravity to them.

Also explain (literally) if a person had eternal life, why would it be necessary to raise him up on the last day??

This has a much simpler explanation. “Eternal life” for us after death (but before the Last Judgment) means life of the soul in God. The resurrection on the last day is of the body, which will then join the soul.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

I have a feeling that this thread is going disintegrate into a fury of arguments and harsh words but I pray not…

I became Catholic in 2007 after a year of RCIA. I have struggled to be the best Catholic I could be, I studied theology like crazy, I went to Mass, and I followed God.

I have to say that I am impressed with Islam, very very impressed. The Qur’an is like a beautiful ray of light. Muhammad (pbuh) is a wonderful example. The Muslims I know follow Christ’s example better than most Catholics, they are more peaceful and loving than I thought possible. Their devotion to God is absolute. And the evidence for Islam is piling up for me. I know many here have negative opinions about Islam, Muslims, and the Prophet Muhammad and I did too once but now that I have put a lot of time into studying the religion and talking to many people, I have discovered the true Islam. True Islam is not the fanatical religion of the media nor is it a woman-hating, gun-toting, violent mockery of religion as I had been taught. It very well might be the most peaceful faith on earth. God is in Islam, I can’t deny it any longer. Believe me I’ve tried!
I love the Church, but God has led me to Her and God may be leading me to Islam. I am willing to put everything else aside to follow God where He wills, even if I must put aside my beloved Mother Church. I will submit to God in all things, He will lead me where He wills.

I hesitate to ask…thoughts?

please keep it civil

pax vobiscum
Irish

mashaAllah,wow,im glad to read such a post

Why do you love the church? im sure its not because of the church itself but because of what the church represents…Jesus,Mary etc? if so,then you dont leave anything by converting to islam…im sure you already know how much islam respects the prophet Jesus(pbuh) and his mother virgin Maria(r.a)

anyway,i know many ex catholics who converted to islam,one of them is in my family i hope God will help you to find the true path

 

[dzheremi]

Why do you love the church? im sure its not because of the church itself but because of what the church represents…Jesus,Mary etc?

Mighty presumptuous there of you, Bosniak, to think that the Church or ones fidelity to it is out of some sort of “representation” of a person or a group of people. Did you not see the emphasis on the Eucharist in the recent posts? It is not a representation of anything. Islam does not have it, and furthermore does not have the true personages of Christ, Mary, or anyone else connected with Christian history, only Islamic revisions and smears. Your Isa is not our Jesus (or, Yesua’a, to say it in the language the Islamic Allah hears), and your Mariyam is not the Theotokos. They are impostors.

if so,then you dont leave anything by converting to islam…im sure you already know how much islam respects the prophet Jesus(pbuh) and his mother virgin Maria(r.a)

You leave the One who has eternal life.

anyway,i know many ex catholics who converted to islam,one of them is in my family i hope God will help you to find the true path

And here we have likewise many who have converted from Islam to Orthodoxy or Catholicism. They have found the true path, having stopped chasing after a 7th century Arabian mirage.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

Mighty presumptuous there of you, Bosniak, to think that the Church or ones fidelity to it is out of some sort of “representation” of a person or a group of people. Did you not see the emphasis on the Eucharist in the recent posts? It is not a representation of anything.

Ok ,then i really dont understand what is there to be loved? the catholics here really hate the church(ok maybe the croatian people are too much infected by communism) but they see church as a corrupted organisation,so i was thinking people stay in church because of love to Jesus and Mary…not love to pope or priests:shrug:

Islam does not have it, and furthermore does not have the true personages of Christ, Mary, or anyone else connected with Christian history, only Islamic revisions and smears. Your Isa is not our Jesus (or, Yesua’a, to say it in the language the Islamic Allah hears), and your Mariyam is not the Theotokos. They are impostors.

thats just your personal opinion,may i remind you that even the Vativan would disagree with you?

You leave the One who has eternal life.

no

And here we have likewise many who have converted from Islam to Orthodoxy or Catholicism. They have found the true path, having stopped chasing after a 7th century Arabian mirage.

im sure not as many as i know,just a few days ago one more croatian catholic converted and changed his name from Ivan to Hamza:thumbsup:

 

[dzheremi]

Ok ,then i really dont understand what is there to be loved?

No surprise there. We could ask you the same about Islam or Muhammad.

the catholics here really hate the church

Alright…?

(ok maybe the croatian people are too much infected by communism)

Uh huh. I forgot only the Croatians were part of Yugoslavia.

but they see church as a corrupted organisation,so i was thinking people stay in church because of love to Jesus and Mary…not love to pope or priests:shrug:

This is a strange idea. Do you “stay in” Islam because of your love for any one particular Imam? (Do you see now how silly this sounds?)

thats just your personal opinion,may i remind you that even the Vativan would disagree with you?

I know very well what the Catechism says about Muslims. You endeavor to worship the One God who we also worship, and in that way may have some part in the salvation that is available to all. None of that says anything about the authenticity of the depictions of Jesus, Mary or anyone else written of in the Qur’an. I guarantee you that when it comes to this matter, what I have written is completely in conformity with the teachings of the Church. “Isa” is Islam’s Jesus, not ours.

no

Yes, you do. “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.” (John 6:68)

im sure not as many as i know,just a few days ago one more croatian catholic converted and changed his name from Ivan to Hamza:thumbsup:

Well, then that sure settles it, doesn’t it?

Seeing as I don’t know every Croatian person in the world, I would say that your argument is just as good as any random assortment of people I could point to on this board who are ex-Muslims who have since come to Catholicism or Orthodoxy. There are many. On the subject of people from your part of the world, I do happen to have a Bosniak friend who returned to Bosnia for the first time since the war last year. When I asked her about her family, she told me (paraphrasing) “They used to be Muslims by nationality only, now they’re all Christians!” (she, an athiest, was dismayed by this. Hahaha.)

Well, you know what they say about anecdotal evidence…

 

[bosnian_muslim]

You can not compare the church with islam and the prophet,islam doesnt even have an institution like the catholics do.The priesthood is corupted,so is the church…thats what average people think.If i say the imams are corupted that doesnt change anything in islam,or me as a muslim.

. When I asked her about her family, she told me (paraphrasing) “They used to be Muslims by nationality only, now they’re all Christians!” (she, an athiest, was dismayed by this. Hahaha.)

wow,must be the only family in Bosnia,since all the misionaries say how hard it is to convert bosniaks and serbs to protestantism(catholics do not do missionary work in bosnia).There are many new catholics among ex muslim albanians but bosniaks are known to be “alergic” to the cross…as we say-even the worst kafir bosniak cant stand the cross…its because of our past as you may understand

 

[bosnian_muslim]

I know very well what the Catechism says about Muslims. You endeavor to worship the One God who we also worship, and in that way may have some part in the salvation that is available to all. None of that says anything about the authenticity of the depictions of Jesus, Mary or anyone else written of in the Qur’an. I guarantee you that when it comes to this matter, what I have written is completely in conformity with the teachings of the Church. “Isa” is Islam’s Jesus, not ours.

well what can i say,prove that the vatican doesnt recognize Isa as Jesus,since they so often mention the fact that islam respects Jesus and Mary during interreligious meetings,i would find it weird that they believe what you say now