Catholic Considering Islam

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** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

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lol , why attacked Iraq ?? :confused:
Sister Amy-This is probably beyond the scope of this topic. However, the short answer is that Iraq attacked Kuwait in 1991. We defended them under a UN resolution. That war was stopped (not ended) in a cease fire. Iraq violated various and numerous obligations under the ceasefire. Eventually, the US and approximately 40 allied nations, with the blessings of the UN finished the job. In other words, it was basically one war, fully authorized by the international community. The war was started by Iraq. Had Saddam lived up to his obligations under the terms of the cease fire, the second phase of the war would have never happened.
Regards,
 
The Muslims I know follow Christ’s example better than most Catholics, they are more peaceful and loving than I thought possible. Their devotion to God is absolute. And the evidence for Islam is piling up for me.
Do not use people as an example of what is the true faith is. I myself will agree, many Muslims do a better job at being a good person that Catholics do. But that depends on the person and the choices they make. Want to see a devout Catholic (and not a fanatic), go to a place where Christians are a minority, and where some values are part of culture.
 
All I have to say is, please do not join a religion who’s founder was a child molester and rapist.

Just look at the atrocities of Islam…

:dts:
 
lol , why attacked Iraq ?? :confused:
Confused over what? The same question that has been going on for years now? Al Qaeda and Hussein and WMDs and Hussein’s complicency in attacks in our shores and against our citizens.

you will have to read something outside of your realm. Then you won’t be so confused. After the OKC bombings, there have been many lawsuits filed against Iraq. Bush asked them to stop in order for Iraq to rebuild.

source:

-weblinks:
The Party of Defeat’s Top Five Lies About Iraq
Iraq link to OKC
Iraq link to OKC, Sept. 11 attacks?

-books:
Saddam’s Secrets

The Link, The Secret Relationship between Saddam and Al Qaida
Saddam’s Secrets - I will quote to you pages 12-14 and then page 15 after that.
pp12-14,
What is Al Qaida?
To fully understand the relationship Saddam had with al Qaida we have to explore what al Qaida is. Al Qaida has been described as an umbrella. At its core, it is a terrorist group, but it also functions through alliances with other terrorist organizations. Some leaders and members of these organizations have sworn an oath or ‘bayat’ to al Qaida. Even non-al Qaida members operate under orders from al Qaida at times. This provides concealment of the higher echelons of al Qaida and causes confusion for law enforcement in tryhing to unravel the al Qaida terrorist network.
Usama bin Laden’s al Qaida was officially formed in 1989. bin Laden and his chief deputy Abu Ayoub al Iraqi called a formal meeting and invited all the terrorist organizations that would join his al Qaida. For clarification, ‘al-Iraqi’ means that Abu Ayoub is from Iraq. At this meeting, abu Ayoub was named the ‘emir’ of al-Qaida. The emir was considered to be the general commander. Abu Ayoub reported directly to bin Laden who was the president of al Qaida. A citizen of Iraq was the first emir of al Qaida. At this meeting each leader of each terrorist organization attending signed a contract in triplicate and swore an oath or ‘bayat’ to al Qaida. Each of these terrorist organizations remained in tact while operating under allegiance to bin Laden. Al Qaida’s alliances span the globe:
  • Al Qaida/islamic Army
  • Al-Jihad/Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ)
  • Gamaa al Islamiya/Islamic Group Organization (IG)
  • Abu Sayyaf Group (Philippines)
  • Armed Islamic Group (Algeria)
  • harkut ul-Mujahidin (Kashmir)
  • Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan
  • Islamic Army of Aden
  • Al-Itihaad al-Islamiya
  • jamaat e Jihal al Suri
  • Libyan Fighting Group
  • Salafist Group for Call and Combat (Algeria)
Of these , the two most important al Qaida subsidiaries are the Al-Jihad/Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ) and the Islamic Group Organization (IG). the leaders of the EIJ and IG became influential leaders in al Qaida… Umar Abed al Rahman, the leader of IG, … issued the fatwah for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. … his group, the IG, are reported to have been working with al Qaida since 1990. …Zawahiri, the leader of EIJ, was appointed to an advisory council called the Shura. … In 1998, al-Zawahiri with Usama bin laden issued a worldwide fatwah to all muslims. the fatwah called for ‘the murder of any American, anywhere on earth.’ Three months later bin laden went on to say it was more important to kill Americans than to kill other infidels.’ ‘We do not differentiate between military or civilian. As far as we are concerned they are all targets.’
Saddam’s direct operational ties to al Qaida
In Volume 3 of the Saddam papers there is a memorandum number 110/2/43 dated Jan. 25, 1993 (the doc is in the book - appendix, Figures 4-8). This memo is from the director of the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) sent to the secretary of the President. There are some interesting facts contained in this memo that illustrate Saddam’s alliance with terror and more importantly ties to al Qaida. The memo list ten terrorist organizations that were affiliated with Iraq… Iraq was regularly providing financial support to five of them. More interestingly, than this is that both the EIJ and IG are listed in this memo.
it goes on to tell of the jihad armament against the West and that Hussein is the leader of the believer group against the infidels.
 
Hello IrishDude45,

I haven’t posted in a while, but I’m a Catholic and an Islamic scholar. I speak Arabic
Code:
I am not a troll! I have been posting on this site for a long time! (look at my post number) All I was doing with this thread was to see what my fellow Catholics thought about me being compelled by some of the things in Islam, I wasn't trying to put any propaganda out there! :(
I understand what you are saying, but there are many people who do this. I’m not blaming you, and I believe what you say.
Yes that was me! All I have ever done as a Catholic is seek God! I wanted to help lead others to God! I wasn’t lying before and I’m not lying now. I never said I was converting! Its just I’ve been drawn to Islam is all, its up to God where I go.
I know about the allure of Islam. However, Islam as I have found is like turning over a rock. It looks consistent upon the surface, but a little peek at the inner machinations of the religion through theology, history, and scripture turn up a LOT more, and much of which is negative.

But let me correct you in one minor area- it’s not all up to God where you go. You have free will. You can choose your path. You have chosen to follow the truth in Christ and His Holy Church. God will not lead you away from this. You may feel influenced to go away, but this is not from God- God doesn’t lead people astray.
I knew this thread was a bad idea but I just wanted to see what fellow Catholics thought about it, well I guess I know the kind of reactions I will get from folks now…I’ll just have to rely solely on God to figure this out. I can’t believe how angry everyone got, I never meant to cause any bloody harm! 😦
Look, if you want to learn about Islam, I can direct you to the ORTHODOX Islamic resources, all in english. I can also help with Arabic.

Islam is a very sensitive topic. I know. People are very passionate about it, and I understand why, having been around Moslems for so long.

If you’re concerned I might speak negatively about Islam, you needn’t worry. I don’t speak negatively about Islam- I merely present what the classical Islamic texts written by Moslems about Islam say.

Yours in Christ,

samaan
 
I don’t think I will ever understand the attraction of Islam. There is no Christ there. Islam is all the beauty of the meal with none of the food.
Well said.

I do understand the attraction of Islam. Salvation comes from following Mohammedan law, famously summarized in the “5 pillars” as well as other stipulations.

However, there is no relationship in Islam outside of the Master/Slave category. Allah is the master (rabb), Man is the slave ('abd).

Jesus came so that we might call God the Father “Father,” and that in Christ we can have a personal relationship with Him. We are sons and daughters of God, adopted through the blood of the Lamb, Jesus.

As Jesus put so well, “The slave does not have a permanent place in the household; the son has a place there forever” (John 8:35).

This is why we are God’s children- “In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?” (John 14:2)

I am not a slave to Allah- I am a child of God, created in His image and likeness. I serve Him because I choose to, because I love Him, despite my many and consistent failings, and He loves me. It’s about relationship.

I understand the attraction of Islam, but I am not a slave that is a mere creation (Islam doesn’t believe that man is created in Allah’s image).

A merciful God doesn’t create slaves- He doesn’t need them. He is Love (1 John 4:8), and he wants relationship, not slavery.
 
Well said.

I do understand the attraction of Islam. Salvation comes from following Mohammedan law, famously summarized in the “5 pillars” as well as other stipulations.

However, there is no relationship in Islam outside of the Master/Slave category. Allah is the master (rabb), Man is the slave ('abd).

Jesus came so that we might call God the Father “Father,” and that in Christ we can have a personal relationship with Him. We are sons and daughters of God, adopted through the blood of the Lamb, Jesus.

As Jesus put so well, “The slave does not have a permanent place in the household; the son has a place there forever” (John 8:35).

This is why we are God’s children- “In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?” (John 14:2)

I am not a slave to Allah- I am a child of God, created in His image and likeness. I serve Him because I choose to, because I love Him, despite my many and consistent failings, and He loves me. It’s about relationship.

I understand the attraction of Islam, but I am not a slave that is a mere creation (Islam doesn’t believe that man is created in Allah’s image).

A merciful God doesn’t create slaves- He doesn’t need them. He is Love (1 John 4:8), and he wants relationship, not slavery.
Bravo! 👍 I might add that as God’s children, we are also heirs to His kingdom. Who would prefer slavery over being an heir?

And welcome back!!!
 
Well said.

I do understand the attraction of Islam. Salvation comes from following Mohammedan law, famously summarized in the “5 pillars” as well as other stipulations.

However, there is no relationship in Islam outside of the Master/Slave category. Allah is the master (rabb), Man is the slave ('abd).

Jesus came so that we might call God the Father “Father,” and that in Christ we can have a personal relationship with Him. We are sons and daughters of God, adopted through the blood of the Lamb, Jesus.

As Jesus put so well, “The slave does not have a permanent place in the household; the son has a place there forever” (John 8:35).

This is why we are God’s children- “In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?” (John 14:2)

I am not a slave to Allah- I am a child of God, created in His image and likeness. I serve Him because I choose to, because I love Him, despite my many and consistent failings, and He loves me. It’s about relationship.

I understand the attraction of Islam, but I am not a slave that is a mere creation (Islam doesn’t believe that man is created in Allah’s image).

A merciful God doesn’t create slaves- He doesn’t need them. He is Love (1 John 4:8), and he wants relationship, not slavery.
Excellent post, Samaan! Couldn’t have said it better! 👍

Vickie
 
IrishDude
I’m not here to tell you what to do or to judge you but I’m trying to understand what exactly made you attracted to Islam in the first place? Feel free to PM me if that make you more comfortable than posting your answer.
 
I have a feeling that this thread is going disintegrate into a fury of arguments and harsh words but I pray not…

I became Catholic in 2007 after a year of RCIA. I have struggled to be the best Catholic I could be, I studied theology like crazy, I went to Mass, and I followed God.

I have to say that I am impressed with Islam, very very impressed. The Qur’an is like a beautiful ray of light. Muhammad (pbuh) is a wonderful example. The Muslims I know follow Christ’s example better than most Catholics, they are more peaceful and loving than I thought possible. Their devotion to God is absolute. And the evidence for Islam is piling up for me. I know many here have negative opinions about Islam, Muslims, and the Prophet Muhammad and I did too once but now that I have put a lot of time into studying the religion and talking to many people, I have discovered the true Islam. True Islam is not the fanatical religion of the media nor is it a woman-hating, gun-toting, violent mockery of religion as I had been taught. It very well might be the most peaceful faith on earth. God is in Islam, I can’t deny it any longer. Believe me I’ve tried!
I love the Church, but God has led me to Her and God may be leading me to Islam. I am willing to put everything else aside to follow God where He wills, even if I must put aside my beloved Mother Church. I will submit to God in all things, He will lead me where He wills.

I hesitate to ask…thoughts?

please keep it civil

pax vobiscum
Irish
Hello IrishDude,

Yes, I’m sure that there are beautiful things in Islam, but there is a difference between Catholicism and Islam. In Christianity, Almighty God humbled Himself to a form of a man because He loved us. He came down to our level so we would know Him. In Islam, Jesus did not die on the cross and God never humbled Himself. In Islam, God only teaches humility. In Christianity, God not only teaches humility, but he has done it by becoming a man. We called God our Father and we are sons and daughters of God. In Islam, the Muslims do not call him “Father.” God humbled Himself into a man because He loves us and wanted us to know Him.

Peace be with you,
Selene
 
I have a feeling that this thread is going disintegrate into a fury of arguments and harsh words but I pray not…

I have to say that I am impressed with Islam, very very impressed. The Qur’an is like a beautiful ray of light. Muhammad (pbuh) is a wonderful example. The Muslims I know follow Christ’s example better than most Catholics, they are more peaceful and loving than I thought possible. Their devotion to God is absolute. And the evidence for Islam is piling up for me. I know many here have negative opinions about Islam, Muslims, and the Prophet Muhammad and I did too once but now that I have put a lot of time into studying the religion and talking to many people, I have discovered the true Islam. True Islam is not the fanatical religion of the media nor is it a woman-hating, gun-toting, violent mockery of religion as I had been taught. It very well might be the most peaceful faith on earth. God is in Islam, I can’t deny it any longer. Believe me I’ve tried!

pax vobiscum
Irish
I never understood how someone who follows the Gospel can say I am becoming a “Muslim”. So what were you before? The Koran does not seperate between the scriptures. maybe you are joining a different community, but unless you were a believer in some doctrine and left that doctrine than I can not see how someone can actually say I left Catholicism and became “Muslim”. Muslim is a verb and not a noun. Anyways if you become a Muslim as in a Sunni or Shia you are leaving a doctrine to another.
  1. But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) law before them?- therein is the (plain) command of Allah. yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) People of Faith.
44.** It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light**. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to Allah.s will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah.s book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.
  1. We ordained therein for them: “Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.” But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.
  2. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
47.** Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.**
  1. To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
Three communities but one faith. The Koran does not seperate between the scriptures.

However Judaism and its Talmud, Christianity and its trinity and Islam and its Sunnah are three different faiths each accusing the other of infidelity and deviancy and each promising the other of going to hell.

2.62. Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

2.111-113. And they say: “None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian.” Those are their (vain) desires. Say: “Produce your proof if ye are truthful.” Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to Allah and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. The Jews say: "The Christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say: “The Jews have naught (To stand) upon.” Yet they (Profess to) study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.

Koran, Gospel and Torah are one faith, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are three different faiths.

Only the scriptures should talk:

5.68-69. Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith… Those who believe (in the Qur’an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Clear as a crystal. 👍
 
I echo what a lot of folks in here have said. Islam is based on Muhammad’s prophesies. Muhammad and his wife spent much time in caravans going through Christian, Jewish, and pagan cities doing trading. Muhammad picked up bits and pieces of Jewish and Christian stories from the Torah and the New Testament. He heard them orally and internalized them, modified them to fit a decidedly pro-Arab flavor, and created his own monotheistic religion.

There is truth in Islam, yes. There is truth in every religion to some degree, but there are also dangerous lies in Islam. The greatest lie is that Jesus Christ is not the Son of God but rather a prophet and a holy man. They teach gnostic-style approaches to his crucifixion and that He didn’t really die on the Cross. Jesus is the Word incarnate, God made man.

How or why would you want to turn your back on the God-Man, Christ? He took on an earthly life of poverty, being a carpenter, a rabbi, and taught us the Gospel, finally paid the ultimate price for your sins on the Cross! He was flogged, flagulated, beated, brutalized, and crucified in agony for you and I.

Jesus is the word, the Son of God, the very essence of the Triune God in flesh. Why would you want to give that up for the Koran, which reveals an angry God and denies the truths of Jesus, make Christ a lesser being, a created man like the rest of us?

In Islam Allah is NOT the God of Christianity or Judaism, I beg to differ. The stories of the Fall in the Garden are different, their version of the events of Ishmael and Isaac are different, their take on sin is different, and they believe you can atone for your own sins and gain salvation without the Saviour of the World, Jesus.

I truly hope that you’ll pray, take things slow, reconsider, and put that Koran away. Go re-discover Christ. He is NOT the man you read about from Muhammad.

I also encourage you to objectively look at the life of Muhammad. He was no peace-lover and had a very dark side. I don’t believe his prophesies or trust him one bit.

God bless you and good luck!

In Christ,
Scott
 
Be prepared to leave everything behind.
Islam is in its origins an Arab religion. Everyone not an Arab who is a Muslim is a convert. Islam is not simply a matter of conscience or private belief. It makes imperial demands. A convert’s worldview alters. His holy places are in Arab lands; his language is Arabic. His idea of history alters. He rejects his own; he becomes, whether he likes it or not, a part of the Arab story. The convert has to turn away from everything that is his. The disturbance for societies is immense, and even after a thousand years can remain unresolved; the turning away has to be done again and again. People develop fantasies about who and what they are; and in the Islam of the converted countries there is an element of neurosis and nihilism. These countries can be easily set on the boil.” – V. S. Naipaul, Beyond Belief: Islamic Excursions among Converted People
He described how Islam changes everything including the history of nations its followers conquer.
 
Be prepared to leave everything behind.

He described how Islam changes everything including the history of nations its followers conquer.
Yes, by burning book and re-writing history. Remember, it was Moslems who burned the great library at Alexandria.
 
unfortunately it doesn’t even look like Irishdude is even here he tried to get the thread closed and then later on he said he wasn’t going to post here anymore and his account shows no activity for quite some time. All of the information may be for not. Which is really unfortunate because I would really like to know what is leading him to reject Jesus in favor of Islam I still don’t understand what is so attractive to him. I wonder if he converted to Islam since he does not appear to be here anymore.:confused:
 
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