Catholic Considering Islam

[JPUSC]

I would really like to know what is leading him to reject Jesus in favor of Islam I still don’t understand what is so attractive to him. I wonder if he converted to Islam since he does not appear to be here anymore.

It’s because of this:
IrishDude:

First off let me make it clear that I have no intention of converting to Islam at the moment, Its simply overwhelming when you hear so many negative things and lies about a faith only to discover that none of them hold water.

I brought up the actions of the Muslims not to show that actions are what I use to judge the truth of a religion but because I had been taught that Muslims were violent people and its been a shock to realize they all aren’t.

So, the lesson learned is: people should be careful what they say on a Catholic website about other religions, political parties, etc. as you never know how people will react to them. I’ve observed a few individuals on here converting to atheism or other religions.

 

[Aydan]

It’s because of this:

So, the lesson learned is: people should be careful what they say on a Catholic website about other religions, political parties, etc. as you never know how people will react to them. I’ve observed a few individuals on here converting to atheism or other religions.

Yeah I can really identify with this situation because I’ve been in a similar situation on here and in my parish when I began to learn Turkish as my second language. I wanted to incorporate elements of Turkish culture into my life which for me also includes going to Mass as a practicing Catholic I faced such opposition to Turkey in my church that I almost left my church I seriously considered either joining the Eastern Church and there were a few times where I considered walking away completely from Catholicism. I didn’t and things are much better now and I think both myself and my parish benefited from this trying experience. But there was one major change from this even though I still go to a Latin rite church I could no longer consider myself a Latin Catholic after this experience so I just consider myself a Turkish Catholic now since they do have Catholic churches in Turkey. I have to say the opposition I faced because of Turkey was one of the most horrible experiences I have ever had. The pain I felt and the rejection was so overwhelming I can’t even put it into words. I can only imagine what Irishdude is going through.

 

[JPUSC]

Yeah I can really identify with this situation because I’ve been in a similar situation on here and in my parish when I began to learn Turkish as my second language. I wanted to incorporate elements of Turkish culture into my life which for me also includes going to Mass as a practicing Catholic I faced such opposition to Turkey in my church that I almost left my church I seriously considered either joining the Eastern Church and there were a few times where I considered walking away completely from Catholicism. I didn’t and things are much better now and I think both myself and my parish benefited from this trying experience. But there was one major change from this even though I still go to a Latin rite church I could no longer consider myself a Latin Catholic after this experience so I just consider myself a Turkish Catholic now since they do have Catholic churches in Turkey. I have to say the opposition I faced because of Turkey was one of the most horrible experiences I have ever had. The pain I felt and the rejection was so overwhelming I can’t even put it into words. I can only imagine what Irishdude is going through.

How could anyone be against the place the Virgin Mary called her home during her last years on earth?

 

[Aydan]

How could anyone be against the place the Virgin Mary called her home during her last years on earth?

Good question. It’s kind of funny because although technically I’m revert because I was baptized Catholic but I wasn’t raised in the faith and had no idea of Catholic teachings until I went through adult confirmation in 2003. My sponsor literally taught me the faith so I am a convert in that sense. One of the first things she taught me was to read the catechism and I thought at the time all Catholics read the catechism so a couple years later I was shocked to find out that not everybody reads the catechism!
I was even more stunned when when people were saying that the holy places in Turkey aren’t really Turkish because Turkey did not exist during the time of Jesus. I’m not even sure how many Catholics even know that the Blessed Mother lived in Turkey because many Catholics just treat it as an Islamic country and I’m still shocked about just how many Catholics are against Turkey. They seem to hold the actions of a few extremists and some bad government policies against the entire Turkish population as a whole. That’s what bothered me the most because all my Turkish friends are good and loving people.

 

[koranist]

I echo what a lot of folks in here have said. Islam is based on Muhammad’s prophesies. Muhammad and his wife spent much time in caravans going through Christian, Jewish, and pagan cities doing trading. Muhammad picked up bits and pieces of Jewish and Christian stories from the Torah and the New Testament. He heard them orally and internalized them, modified them to fit a decidedly pro-Arab flavor, and created his own monotheistic religion.

There is truth in Islam, yes. There is truth in every religion to some degree, but there are also dangerous lies in Islam. The greatest lie is that Jesus Christ is not the Son of God but rather a prophet and a holy man. They teach gnostic-style approaches to his crucifixion and that He didn’t really die on the Cross. Jesus is the Word incarnate, God made man.

How or why would you want to turn your back on the God-Man, Christ? He took on an earthly life of poverty, being a carpenter, a rabbi, and taught us the Gospel, finally paid the ultimate price for your sins on the Cross! He was flogged, flagulated, beated, brutalized, and crucified in agony for you and I.

Jesus is the word, the Son of God, the very essence of the Triune God in flesh. Why would you want to give that up for the Koran, which reveals an angry God and denies the truths of Jesus, make Christ a lesser being, a created man like the rest of us?

In Islam Allah is NOT the God of Christianity or Judaism, I beg to differ. The stories of the Fall in the Garden are different, their version of the events of Ishmael and Isaac are different, their take on sin is different, and they believe you can atone for your own sins and gain salvation without the Saviour of the World, Jesus.

I truly hope that you’ll pray, take things slow, reconsider, and put that Koran away. Go re-discover Christ. He is NOT the man you read about from Muhammad.

I also encourage you to objectively look at the life of Muhammad. He was no peace-lover and had a very dark side. I don’t believe his prophesies or trust him one bit.

God bless you and good luck!

In Christ,
Scott

The Koran never said Jesus was never crucified, it never said that Ishmael was the one who was almost sacrificed and the story of Adam and Eve in the Koran are similar scriptural accounts but not all were canonized in the official Bible.

As far as Jesus of the Koran, he was the Messiah and a product of a miraculous birth. The Koran came to confirm the Gospel and never challenged the accounts of the Gospel but attacked the trinity which i have yet to see real evidence from the Gospel to support it.

A lot of people understand Islam through Sunni or Shia eyes and not the Koran. You can see some of my threads about these topics. The Koran does not seperate between the scriptures however Judaism, Christianity and Islam are in my opinion not necessarily consistent with the scriptures.

 

[Selene]

Koran, Gospel and Torah are one faith, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are three different faiths.

Hello Koranist,

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are one faith because all three believe in the same God - the God of Abraham. It’s the books that are different. The Torah does not recognize the Gospels and New Testament. The Christian Bible does not recognize the Qu’ran, and no where in the Qu’ran do I see the readings from the Torah or the Christian Bible. The Christians, on the other hand, do have the Jewish Torah included in their Bible. It is the first five books of the Holy Bible. Therefore, all three are one faith because all three believe in the same God - the God of Abraham. But the three books are not the same. The reason the Christians have the Torah included in their Bible is simply because Christianity was a branch from Judaism and the very first Christians were Jews.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church never condemned Muslims and Jews to hell. It is only God who will judge us. Our Catechisms says that we are bonded to Jews, Muslims, and other non-Christians. All are our brothers and sisters. The Jewish faith is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. They were the first to hear the Word of God and they were God’s chosen people who received His gifts and calling, which are irrevocable for God never goes back on His promises. The Muslims are bonded with us because they acknowlege the same God of Abraham who is the one true God and together we worship Him. Other non-Christians are bonded with our church and are also our brothers and sisters because all were made in God’s image and all search for Him among the shadows and images for the God who is yet unknown to them but near for He desires all people to be saved.

Peace be with you,
Selene

 

[MarieW]

It’s because of this:

So, the lesson learned is: people should be careful what they say on a Catholic website about other religions, political parties, etc. as you never know how people will react to them. I’ve observed a few individuals on here converting to atheism or other religions.

IrishDude is too sensitive, I read this thread from the day he posted, and there are a lot of nice advice to him only a couple are a bit rough and off he goes just like that:shrug: I liked the guy and his posts.

 

[sedonaman]

…

Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are one faith because all three believe in the same God - the God of Abraham.
…

There was a time in ancient Egypt when Egyptians worshipped one god, the sun god Ra. Yet no one would make the claim that they worshipped the same God as we do, would they?

The false notion that all religions who give homage to a [single] deity of any sort somehow worship the true “God” but simply “under another form” is one that is presently being propagated in order [to] lead the Church down the smooth path of apostasy in the name of ecumenism.
…
On every essential point concerning the true God and the nature of the true God, the Mohammedan belief radically and seriously conflicts with the established and revealed Dogma of the Catholic Church.
…
The teaching and the beliefs of Catholicism and Mohammedanism are different and contrary. Their concept of, and their approach to God, diverge and conflict. Catholics indeed accept as dogmatic truth the Holy Trinity, the Incarnation and the Divinity of … Jesus Christ. Moslems vehemently and vociferously deny the Blessed Trinity, the Incarnation, the Crucifixion, … and the Divinity of Christ.
“Do Catholics and Muslims worship the same God?”
By Raymond Taouk
catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/islam/worship.htm

Therefore, Islam and Christianity are fundamentally and inherently in contradiction of one another.

Mohammed produced no miracles, and relies on the Bible, both Old and New Testatment, to support his claim of prophethood. Any person, man or woman, can stand up and claim to have a message from God. But the question is how are the rest of us to know whether or not that individual is actually God’s messenger of truth or if they are just pretending or delusional? What objective evidence or proofs are available to demonstrate that an individual is speaking as God’s appointed messenger? What proofs does that individual messenger point to as evidence to substantiate his claims? In Mohammad’s case, he claimed to be the last in the line of OT and NT prophets. His only tie to Abraham is the weak evidence of his own self-declaration; and therefore, his tie to the God of Abraham is merely wishful thinking and an attempt to show goodness and niceness so as not to offend Muslims who try to deceive us into believing we have a common deity.

Though Islam has historically identifiable origins, these origins do not provide any reason for concluding that Mohammad’s teachings are an accurate view of God, the universe, and mankind.
Source: “Evidentiary Religions – Islam” biblestudying.net/islam1.html

 

[Aydan]

IrishDude is too sensitive, I read this thread from the day he posted, and there are a lot of nice advice to him only a couple are a bit rough and off he goes just like that:shrug: I liked the guy and his posts.

I can sympathize with him I too was on a quest for God because I was not raised in the faith so I was Catholic in name only having no idea what the church really taught. I researched Islam and Christianity. I almost did not become a Christian at all because my aunt is a former Catholic who is now very much against the church and now she is a fundamentalist Protestant. She also happens to be my godmother. She tried to teach me her faith but I explored Protestant churches none of them appealed to me because they all seem so judgmental of others making decisions about who would go to heaven and who would go to hell. At the time I was really leaning towards Islam but then I had a Catholic friend who invited me to the church and taught me in the faith. Once I learned the faith I reverted back to Catholicism now that I understood what it means to be Catholic.

I think it is rather harsh to say that Irishdude is too sensitive because I know how it feels when you are being rejected. When I first started learning Turkish it caused me to have serious problems with other Catholics in my parish and even outside of it as I have explained in an earlier post. It hurts when you feel rejected by your faith community. There is more than one time I consider joining the Eastern Church or just giving up on Catholicism altogether simply because I faced so much opposition to Turkey. Things are much better now and I found some pretty neat ways to incorporate Turkish elements into my faith and my prayer life. The best part is that now I get opportunities to teach people about Turkey and answer questions about it from the Christian Catholic perspective and I really enjoy it. Sadly though it appears that Irishdude has simply decided that it is just too painful to continue posting here and that saddens me.

 

[Selene]

There was a time in ancient Egypt when Egyptians worshipped one god, the sun god Ra. Yet no one would make the claim that they worshipped the same God as we do, would they?

Therefore, Islam and Christianity are fundamentally and inherently in contradiction of one another.

Mohammed produced no miracles, and relies on the Bible, both Old and New Testatment, to support his claim of prophethood. Any person, man or woman, can stand up and claim to have a message from God. But the question is how are the rest of us to know whether or not that individual is actually God’s messenger of truth or if they are just pretending or delusional? What objective evidence or proofs are available to demonstrate that an individual is speaking as God’s appointed messenger? What proofs does that individual messenger point to as evidence to substantiate his claims? In Mohammad’s case, he claimed to be the last in the line of OT and NT prophets. His only tie to Abraham is the weak evidence of his own self-declaration; and therefore, his tie to the God of Abraham is merely wishful thinking and an attempt to show goodness and niceness so as not to offend Muslims who try to deceive us into believing we have a common deity.

Though Islam has historically identifiable origins, these origins do not provide any reason for concluding that Mohammad’s teachings are an accurate view of God, the universe, and mankind.
Source: “Evidentiary Religions – Islam” biblestudying.net/islam1.html

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church #841:

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God,’ mankind’s judge on the last day.

Because the Muslims profess to believe in the same God as we do - the God of Abraham, we worship the same God. There is only one God of Abraham. This is what bonds us together with the Muslims and Jews. However, the teachings from the Qu’ran and the Haddith was never from the God of Abraham. God did not send Mohammed. It was only Mohammed who believed he was sent by God. The God whom the Muslims worship and the god who sent the Qu’ran to them are unfortunately two different gods. The God they profess to worship is the true one.

 

[Selene]

But the question is how are the rest of us to know whether or not that individual is actually God’s messenger of truth or if they are just pretending or delusional? What objective evidence or proofs are available to demonstrate that an individual is speaking as God’s appointed messenger? What proofs does that individual messenger point to as evidence to substantiate his claims? In Mohammad’s case, he claimed to be the last in the line of OT and NT prophets. His only tie to Abraham is the weak evidence of his own self-declaration; and therefore, his tie to the God of Abraham is merely wishful thinking and an attempt to show goodness and niceness so as not to offend Muslims who try to deceive us into believing we have a common deity.

biblestudying.n

How do we know whether Mohammed was really sent by God after Jesus? The answer is found in our Holy Bible in the Parable of the Tenents (Matthew 21:33-46). God did not send any other prophet after Jesus because Jesus was the Son of God and God incarnate. Sending another prophet after him would only mean that the message delivered by the Son of God was not clear enough. And what prophet could make anything clearer than Jesus who was God incarnate? In the Parable, the Master sent no one else after his son.

 

[sedonaman]

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church #841:
…
Because the Muslims profess to believe in the same God as we do - the God of Abraham, we worship the same God.

“The pitchman on TV says I need a new knife. It must be true because he said it.” – samaan, a fellow Catholic poster on CAF.

… However, the teachings from the Qu’ran and the Haddith was [sic] never from the God of Abraham.

If this is true, and because Muslims claim the teachings from the Qu’ran and the Haddith were from Allah, then Allah cannot be the God of Abraham, as Muslims claim he is. Muslims worship Allah. Therefore, Muslims do not worship the same God as Christians and Jews.

Your statements contradict each other. If God did not send Mohammad, then “The God whom the Muslims worship and the god who sent the Qu’ran to them are unfortunately two different gods” cannot be a true statement because Muslims say they worship the god of Mohammed, who is Allah’s Messenger, among other things. It would be heresy, according to them, to say otherwise.

As far as the CCC goes, it addresses Muslims as part of God’s plan for salvation; I was addressing Islam. A common error on the part of many people when discussing Islam is they confuse the idea of Islam with Muslims themselves. The CCC, the way I read it, does not teach that following Islam is a valid way to salvation.

 

[Selene]

If this is true, and because Muslims claim the teachings from the Qu’ran and the Haddith were from Allah, then Allah cannot be the God of Abraham, as Muslims claim he is. Muslims worship Allah. Therefore, Muslims do not worship the same God as Christians and Jews.

Your statements contradict each other. If God did not send Mohammad, then “The God whom the Muslims worship and the god who sent the Qu’ran to them are unfortunately two different gods” cannot be a true statement because Muslims say they worship the god of Mohammed, who is Allah’s Messenger, among other things. It would be heresy, according to them, to say otherwise.

As far as the CCC goes, it addresses Muslims as part of God’s plan for salvation; I was addressing Islam. A common error on the part of many people when discussing Islam is they confuse the idea of Islam with Muslims themselves. The CCC, the way I read it, does not teach that following Islam is a valid way to salvation.

Hello Sedonaman,

CCC #841 not only addresses Muslims as part of God’s plan of salvation but also states the Church’s relationship with them in that they profess to hold the faith of Abraham and together with us, they adore the one, merciful God. Again, I quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; they profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."

The CCC has stated and acknowledge that the Muslims do profess to hold the faith of Abraham and that together we worship the same God. The Muslims have always claimed that they worship the God of Abraham. The prophet Mohammed have also claimed that he worshiped the God of Abraham; therefore, Mohammed’s God is also the God of Abraham.

However, Mohammed was never sent by God. It was only Mohammed who believed he was sent by Him. And the Muslims believed Mohammed. As for the Qu’ran, they believe that it is a book given to them by God, and this is false. The Qu’ran was written by a man who was very impressed with the Jews, Christians, and the Gnostics that he combined all three teachings together. So whoever inspired the Qu’ran author, it was a god who combined all three books together. The God of Abraham would never combine the teachings of the Gnostics together with the Christians and Jews.

Later in the verses, the Qu’ran judged the Jews as enemies. These verses were actually written during the time when the Muslims came into conflict with the Jews. The author then was expressing his anger and hate for the Jews at the time when Muslims and Jews came into conflict. This is not an inspiration from the God of Abraham. Therefore, the Qu’ran and the Haddith did not come from the God of Abraham, but the Muslims think that it does, and that is their ignorance. In the same way, the Jews also believe that Christians worship the God of Abraham, but they don’t recognize that our Gospels was inspired by God because they don’t believe that God was incarnated into a man, died and resurrected, and that is their ignorance.

Peace be with you,
Selene

 

[Selene]

By the way, when I say that “that is their ignorance” I am simply referring to a state of being unaware or uninformed as is the definition in the dictionary. There is no insult intended.

Peace be with you,
Selene

 

[sedonaman]

Hello Sedonaman,

CCC #841 not only addresses Muslims as part of God’s plan of salvation but also states the Church’s relationship with them in that they profess to hold the faith of Abraham and together with us, they adore the one, merciful God. Again, I quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; they profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."
…

What the CCC says is true; they do profess the faith of Abraham, but what they profess doesn’t make it true.

You are still addressing Muslims; I am addressing Islam.

Here is analysis that is worth your read.

 

[ahollars]

The Koran never said Jesus was never crucified,…

That is a lie:

~“They denied the truth and uttered a monstrous falsehood against Mary. they declared: ‘We have put to death the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, the apostle of God.’ they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but they thought they did…they did not slay him for certain. God lifted him up to him…” (Surah 4:157-158)~

it never said that Ishmael was the one who was almost sacrificed

No, but it doesn’t specify which son was offered. You own scholars seem to disagree with you:

The Sacrifice Of Abraham: Isaac or Ishmael(P)?

As far as Jesus of the Koran, he was the Messiah and a product of a miraculous birth. The Koran came to confirm the Gospel and never challenged the accounts of the Gospel but attacked the trinity which i have yet to see real evidence from the Gospel to support it.

You haven’t looked very hard then.

[ How to Defend the Doctrine of the Trinity

By Jason Evert ](http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101sbs.asp)

A lot of people understand Islam through Sunni or Shia eyes and not the Koran. You can see some of my threads about these topics. The Koran does not seperate between the scriptures however Judaism, Christianity and Islam are in my opinion not necessarily consistent with the scriptures.

That is because you are rejecting that which is vital about both Christianity and Islam. Talk to your own fellow Muslims here. You know full well that you won’t go to an Islamic country and profess those theories like you did here, and we know it, too.

 

[Selene]

What the CCC says is true; they do profess the faith of Abraham, but what they profess doesn’t make it true.

You are still addressing Muslims; I am addressing Islam.

Here is analysis that is worth your read.

My Christian brother, a Jew also profess the faith of Abraham. Does this mean that what a Jew profess is not true because they don’t believe in Christ Jesus and the Holy Trinity? A Muslim’s religion is Islam. The name “Islam” only means “Submission to God…” Islam is not about who we are, but even we Catholics must submit our will to God. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all profess a belief in the God of Abraham. However, as I mentioned in my post, it is their books that are not the same. All three have different books. And naturally, all three have different doctrines, but all three do share the belief in the same God despite the different books and doctrines.

Peace be with you,
Selene

 

[Aydan]

Hi Selene

Welcome to the forum. If you don’t mind me asking I’m just curious where do you get your information about Islam are you a convert?

 

[Coder]

I have to say that I am impressed with Islam, very very impressed. …

Jesus says: “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” St. Paul tells us that only by the Holy Spirit can we say that Jesus is Lord. usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians12.htm#v32

 

[planten]

How do we know whether Mohammed was really sent by God after Jesus? The answer is found in our Holy Bible in the Parable of the Tenents (Matthew 21:33-46). God did not send any other prophet after Jesus because Jesus was the Son of God and God incarnate. Sending another prophet after him would only mean that the message delivered by the Son of God was not clear enough. And what prophet could make anything clearer than Jesus who was God incarnate? In the Parable, the Master sent no one else after his son.

**Selene, we believe in that parable of the tenants. The master sent some workers (prophets) to receive some fruit. But the bad men (tenants) beat those workers. Then Master sent more workers, more prophets. But the tenants mistreate dthem too and beat them up…

Then the Master sent his son (Jesus) that the men will respect him and will give the fruit of the vineyard. But the evil tenants thought he (son) was the heir. They planned to kill the son (Jesus).

Then what will happen? The Master will come himself and deal very harshly with those tenants who were entrusted with some sacred duty. That is another person who is to come after Jesus. In this parable, always some men have been coming. The last one will also be a man whose coming will be the coming of God Himself.

God will not come himself. But He will send some one whose coming will be the coming of God himself. The coming of Jesus is described as the coming of the son. The job was not done and there was no good result. It is agreed in that parable that some one will come after the son who will put things right.**