Catholic Converts/Reverts: Why is there so much fruit in Protestantism?

[Randy_Carson]

A friend and I discuss this topic often. I’m a convert; he’s a revert. We both spent a lot of time in the 80’s in and around the Charismatic/Pentecostal communities.

Here are the kinds of questions that we struggle to answer:

Why is there so much fruit in Protestantism if they do not have the fullness of the gospel?

If the Catholic Church is the true Church, why does the life of the average Catholic parish seem so “dead” when compared with the vibrant joy of so many non-Catholic churches?

If you had to recommend a church to a non-believing friend, would you recommend your own parish, or would you advise them to attend an on-fire non-denominational church where they would be loved, supported, and converted, etc. (secretly hoping to convert them later to Catholicism once they had accepted Jesus)?

(Mods: This is an apologetics topic in that it goes to the heart of whether Catholicism or Protestantism is “of God”, and addresses the lack of “fruit” objection to Catholicism. Thanks.)

 

[Operalan]

I think you’re discussion, as far as the services, a matter of “style”. I have been to some of the more “entertaining” Protestant Churches (have even been a “member” of one). Although there is a lot of boisterousness compared to a Catholic Mass (but not all Catholic Masses), I don’t find a sense of reverence, awe, or devotion. I don’t feel a tradition but created spontaneity. As one who has also lead services in that type of Protestant Church, I also know that, at times, things are “programmed” to elicit a response or to encourage a response–at least they were in the services I helped lead.

The Catholic Church draws on the the history of the practice of worship and centers its worship around the Word and the Eucharist. I can’t find anything more inspiring and awesome than those two central parts of the mass.

No, I would not encourage someone to attend a particular Protestant Church over another. I would encourage them to attend a Mass–even various Masses at different parishes, and witness the difference between them. They are not all the same by any means. And remember, what may seem subdued and staid to you, maybe be a deeply worshipful experience to another. I tended to find the Protestant Church services distracting in many ways instead of focussed on the very present Jesus Christ. I also appreciate coming into a Mass and having reverence and people in prayer over the completion of social hour.

 

[nickybr38]

Er… so fruit is determined by how happy people are in the pews? Or how many people are IN the pews?

How many people are filling the theatre to watch Magic Mike? Does this mean Magic Mike has a message of truth that the church down the street is missing?

The real ‘fruit’ of the Holy Spirit is listed in the Bible and I don’t recall ‘happy parishioners and filled seats’ being in there.

Love, I see.
Patience, I see.
Kindness, I see.
Wisdom, I see…

I see all of these things in the Catholic Church too. So I wouldn’t dare say the Catholic Church is lacking in fruit while the Protestant churches abound in it.

 

[jenwha]

NOT to offend any Catholics whatsoever, as I am (a brand new one for three months) but I have noticed the distinction between the two a lot. I used to attend Charismatic (Pentecostal) churches before I became Catholic and while I definitely would call it a difference in style, I did find great joy in the way the Pentecostals worship. Full of great joy and song!

Again this is just my perspective coming into the CC, but I did wonder why in the world the Catholics seemed so “grumpy” when I first started attending church. I have read threads on this forum that express great disdain for the exclamations of joy professed by Evangelicals, which makes me sad. We should never never put down Protestants for that. They are our brothers and sisters! The Catholics to me seem more focused on great reverence and more solemnity, and there is nothing wrong with that.

However, I am an anomaly. I believe that Catholics and Protestants both are truly loved by God and that neither group is “going to hell.” I don’t honestly understand the sometimes animosity between the two groups.

With that said, I do prefer and am very happy with my choice to be a Catholic–What beautiful churches! The first and one true chruch! Structures, rules and defined prayers appeal to me, as I found Evangelicals to be unstructured and kind of wishy washy.

I do wish that the CC could find and use more joy in their services. There are good points and bad points about every church and I think the CC could take that trick from the Protestants.

Hopefully I will not get bashed for that stance. I much felt the presence of God and the Holy Spirit as an Evangelical, and now I feel it as a Catholic. May God bless us all.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Let’s see, the Catholic Church is the largest charitable organization in the world. We help more of the poor and do more of the pro-life work than any Protestant churches. We also educate millions of students. There are missions as well. I’d say that’s sufficient fruit.

We do it differently than the Protestants. If you are still comparing and finding the Church lacking, I’d say the deficit is within yourself.

 

[Jeanne_S]

It may vary from parish to parish. My parish is very alive in the Holy Spirit. We are very blessed to have a 24 hour adoration chapel. I really believe this is a huge reason why our parish is so vibrant. It is a rather large parish:We have over 100 ministries. Conversly,another parish not too far from me is very small and humble.However,I feel theHoly Spirit alive there as well.

 

[mikelionheart]

Being lively is not the same as being fruitful.

 

[asd72]

I don’t have much experience of Protestant Churches, a few mainline Protestant services which were sacramental growing up and a Baptist service before I converted.

I find the Mass quite beautiful and it is what God intended for us, not just a sermon/music service. I would be happy to bring them to my Parish. It’s not dead! Although a person may need to look for more formation + fellowship outside of the Parish once they have come through RCIA.

 

[mab23]

ive been to non-denominational and protestant church’s and and it didn’t really feel like church , sometimes i just watched a power point presentation which i though was silly , they had this whole skit of Jesus , the disciples and even pontious pilate on twitter , it was silly

I go to a Catholic Parish regularly and I they are very friendly, always am welcomed by greeters (several) and regularly hug/ shake hands with the priests Deacons, and sisters among other parishioners

so I would recommend my church to any one who asked me for a Good church to go to

the whole fruit thing im not to sure what you mean , but i never got anything out of those other churches, I didn’t know any of the songs, and sometimes I felt like I was more at a concert than at a church

I love my Catholic church AMEN

 

[johndoe100]

One word, “freedom”.

 

[Womanoffaith10]

NOT to offend any Catholics whatsoever, as I am (a brand new one for three months) but I have noticed the distinction between the two a lot. I used to attend Charismatic (Pentecostal) churches before I became Catholic and while I definitely would call it a difference in style, I did find great joy in the way the Pentecostals worship. Full of great joy and song!

Again this is just my perspective coming into the CC, but I did wonder why in the world the Catholics seemed so “grumpy” when I first started attending church. I have read threads on this forum that express great disdain for the exclamations of joy professed by Evangelicals, which makes me sad. We should never never put down Protestants for that. They are our brothers and sisters! The Catholics to me seem more focused on great reverence and more solemnity, and there is nothing wrong with that.

However, I am an anomaly. I believe that Catholics and Protestants both are truly loved by God and that neither group is “going to hell.” I don’t honestly understand the sometimes animosity between the two groups.

With that said, I do prefer and am very happy with my choice to be a Catholic–What beautiful churches! The first and one true chruch! Structures, rules and defined prayers appeal to me, as I found Evangelicals to be unstructured and kind of wishy washy.

I do wish that the CC could find and use more joy in their services. There are good points and bad points about every church and I think the CC could take that trick from the Protestants.

Hopefully I will not get bashed for that stance. I much felt the presence of God and the Holy Spirit as an Evangelical, and now I feel it as a Catholic. May God bless us all.

I know where you’re coming from. I too came from a Fundamentalist church. I agree that there should be more lively services(not saying the jumping around, falling on the floor screaming kind). My church actually has a family that does the music at our 5pm Saturday Mass and it’s a nice change. You can tell some from the older generation aren’t too thrilled, but I like it. I think as time goes on there is going to be more changes made…maybe.

As far as the original post goes; it’s not all it’s cracked up to be. Sure the services are fun, but the meaning is empty. IMHO I find most of them(I have shopped around and talked to many) to be fake. They misconstrue the bible to be as they want it. Even heard a pastor say that Jesus didn’t really turn water into wine…really?. I’ve contemplated going back to that type of place because I struggled with the idea of our church being so “dull”, but then I realized at least it’s real! I just wish more of our younger generation was as involved as many of the Protestant churches are.

 

[CatholicZ09]

From what my friends at school have said, the Protestant services have more things for the kids and teens than the Catholics do. Sure, we have the Life Teen Mass at some parishes, but Protestant churches seem to really reach out to bring youth in by having certain events. My friend told me that his church let them play video games and have open discussions with the pastors. The Catholic Church has more of a “reverant” and “reserved” type of liturgy than Protestants. That’s why I love our faith because for the most part; we are very traditional and old-style kind of faith. Mass is Mass. My friends have told me that the way Catholics “do things” is so boring because all it is is prayers and singing old hymns. I like to point out that there’s much more, but they just don’t get it. Things might not always appeal to people until you know the real meaning behind them.

 

[DavidFilmer]

I think the evidence of good fruits working within the Catholic Church is very well expressed by our Catholic Saints - a 2,000 year history filled with people of heroic love and virtue, including many Confessors and Martyrs whose Faith survived trials that no modern American protestant has ever come close to experiencing.

It might be possible, but I think it would be difficult to find many modern American protestants who could compare with a Canonized Catholic Saint.

 

[JSAD]

Catholicism is tailor made for families with one or more kids.

That translates to a lot more people in their 40’s and above. Walk around in Catholic parishes…you’ll find very very few(if any) of people between the age group of 16-40.

People who are 40-45 and above like and appreciate things like tradition, traditional music, very structured way of worship and a top down hierarchy. That’s one reason why it may seem less vibrant.

It’s no wonder then that the Church that has lost the most amount of young people in the last decade or so is the Catholic church. At a 8% attrition rate, it’s the highest.

Catholic churches are heavy on structure and top down hierarchy, while Evangelicals keep trying out new things.

The holy spirit is moving a lot in the evangelical churches(as he does in the CC),

I’m a cradle catholic young adult and i do believe God moves with whomever he wants to…he does not care much about denomination. I can certainly say i am a stronger Catholic because of the Charismatic spirituality.

 

[anp1215]

It may vary from parish to parish. My parish is very alive in the Holy Spirit. We are very blessed to have a 24 hour adoration chapel. I really believe this is a huge reason why our parish is so vibrant. It is a rather large parish:We have over 100 ministries. Conversly,another parish not too far from me is very small and humble.However,I feel theHoly Spirit alive there as well.

Same with my parish. I would NEVER send a friend to a Protestant church instead of my own.

 

[Irishgal49]

If you had to recommend a church to a non-believing friend, would you recommend your own parish, or would you advise them to attend an on-fire non-denominational church where they would be loved, supported, and converted, etc. (secretly hoping to convert them later to Catholicism once they had accepted Jesus)?

(Mods: This is an apologetics topic in that it goes to the heart of whether Catholicism or Protestantism is “of God”, and addresses the lack of “fruit” objection to Catholicism. Thanks.)

I would recommend my dynamic, happy, welcoming, exciting, contemporary music, Catholic Church that is the size of a basilica.

Our priest is friendly, extroverted, dynamic, loving and his laugh will fill the church with joy. He says, “Our church is the church of 2nd chances” meaning a lot of Catholics who have been treated shabby by other parishes and priests and those who are lost and disenfranchised flock there. I feel the love of God pouring all over me at every Mass and it’s respectful but enlightening and all three Deacons are loving and caring and gifted preachers. I was asked on my 4th time attending to carry the hosts up for the presentation of the gifts, I had a lot of tears because I was never asked to do anything at the former parish.

I was treated like total dung by my former parish and the priest. I was going through a divorce and received no compassion, love, or caring. The priest repeatedly kicked me when I was down saying I was feeling sorry for myself. I was contemplating suicide and beating myself up for being such a loser. I found this new parish looking for a divorce support group.

This parish is a ray of sunshine. They LIVE the Gospel, embrace everyone, and are affirming and caring. This priest said I’m beating up on myself too much and that I should seek to experience more fully God’s love for me. Wow what a switch. He said I was filled with deep self hatred, and that I needed to open up and let God’s love inside. I am doing that more and more…big difference from what I was told at the “other parish”. The new parish helped me get my annulment and they offer divorce support groups (the ONLY church in our Diocese). They care. When I make confession the priest is so affirming, he tells me how much God loves me and I FEEL it. Every homily speaks right to me and helps me continue on my goal to being more and more like Jesus. I am far from perfect but I am loved by the parish and by the Lord (and His wonderful Mother). They are not perfect but they sure try to be. Bring your friends here, they will love it. We have a waterfall font, you can hear the water and remember your baptism all through Mass. Amazing!

It seems you are missing the boat OP. The REAL deal is the Catholic Church. Every time Fr holds up the host and speaks the words, I get all excited, “Jesus is HERE! He’s here!” WE have the REAL presence, I wouldn’t trade that for all the Protestant “jump around dancing, tambourine playing, yacking in tongues emotional hype” for anything.

I want the true Church and if you are in Michigan, private message me. We’d be glad to have you join us.

 

[datritle]

Er… so fruit is determined by how happy people are in the pews? Or how many people are IN the pews?

How many people are filling the theatre to watch Magic Mike? Does this mean Magic Mike has a message of truth that the church down the street is missing?

The real ‘fruit’ of the Holy Spirit is listed in the Bible and I don’t recall ‘happy parishioners and filled seats’ being in there.

Love, I see.
Patience, I see.
Kindness, I see.
Wisdom, I see…

I see all of these things in the Catholic Church too. So I wouldn’t dare say the Catholic Church is lacking in fruit while the Protestant churches abound in it.

Thank you for this rebuttal! I agree completely. Mass is about reverence and worship…it’s not a party, nor is it a concert…

 

[ConstantineTG]

Why is there so much fruit in Protestantism if they do not have the fullness of the gospel?

Not having the fulness of truth doesn’t mean they are bereft of it. Even atheists are capable of good because we all are created in the image and likness of God. God is within us even when we deny Him.

A subdeacon friend of mine quipped, while we Catholics have the fullness of truth, Protestants have the fervor we usually lack. We can learn from one another.

If the Catholic Church is the true Church, why does the life of the average Catholic parish seem so “dead” when compared with the vibrant joy of so many non-Catholic churches?

Most Protestants are converts, and converts are usually those who are “on fire”. Plus, many Protestant communities tithe. It takes serious commitment for one to give up 10% of their income. You wouldn’t give 10% if you are not that serious.

If you had to recommend a church to a non-believing friend, would you recommend your own parish, or would you advise them to attend an on-fire non-denominational church where they would be loved, supported, and converted, etc. (secretly hoping to convert them later to Catholicism once they had accepted Jesus)?

I will be honest here. I will recommend them to the Orthodox Church in America parish in my area.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Thanks for the responses so far.

One point: I said that my friend and I have discussions on this topic. I never said which “side” of the issue is the one championed by me.

One look at the number of posts I have in this forum might give you a clue.

 

[KnightIHSV]

Catholicism is tailor made for families with one or more kids.

That translates to a lot more people in their 40’s and above. Walk around in Catholic parishes…you’ll find very very few(if any) of people between the age group of 16-40.

People who are 40-45 and above like and appreciate things like tradition, traditional music, very structured way of worship and a top down hierarchy. That’s one reason why it may seem less vibrant.

It’s no wonder then that the Church that has lost the most amount of young people in the last decade or so is the Catholic church. At a 8% attrition rate, it’s the highest.

Catholic churches are heavy on structure and top down hierarchy, while Evangelicals keep trying out new things.

The holy spirit is moving a lot in the evangelical churches(as he does in the CC),

I’m a cradle catholic young adult and i do believe God moves with whomever he wants to…he does not care much about denomination. I can certainly say i am a stronger Catholic because of the Charismatic spirituality.

This is a very good question and one that should be posed, as it does really affect the evangelism effort. I agree with the quote above about Church being tailored for families and for older people. If you are young and single in the Catholic Church, as many are nowadays, then you are treated as a sort of problem to be fixed rather than as a resource to be drawn on. Also a lot of parish activities are geared towards the families and older people because they are fixtures. Catholic Churches are “maintenance” rather than “missional” in this regard, as Cardinal Pell in Sydney said.