Catholic Converts to Protestantism

[Lenten_ashes]

I must admit the language used at Trent makes it a tough call for heretics who leave the Church.

But if the person honestly feels in their heart that the Church is wrong and they feel moved to go elsewhere, who are we to judge one way or the other? My spouse was taken advantage of by a priest. As a result of this, she can not look at the Church the same way she used to. I asked a priest about this at my parish and he said he doesn’t fault her if she does not ever step foot in another Catholic church. If a fallible priest has this sort of compassion for her, then I’m quite certain my most merciful God has even more than that.

Pray for those who have left the Church. And just as importantly, do your part to make it a better place. One in which fallen away Catholics would want to return to.

 

[mcq72]

and the bashing goes on and on.

Well you yourself can bash by what is not said, that some indeed may "convert " for positive reasons.

 

[mcq72]

Let others do as they will. This teaching is what keeps me in the Catholic Church.

Thank you for sharing that. Yes, very effectual teaching you posted, that indeed has kept many from venturing to any other pastures.

 

[adf417]

I once asked on this fourm if ex-Catholics here actually believed in the real presence in the eucharist when they were Catholic, dont recall if anyone ever responded in the affirmative. I would think this position could play a big part in the question of the OP.

If one believes in the real presence and leaves it then what? If one never believed in the real presence, and apparently there are many, then it is conceivable as to why one would leave. For me, i will never be able to leave because of my belief in the real presence.

Peace!!!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Let others do as they will. This teaching is what keeps me in the Catholic Church.

While I’m glad you’re staying in the Church, I’m a little sad that you wouldn’t be staying in the Catholic Church because it has the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, and the fullest experience of Jesus/ God and all other truths, rather than out of some fear you’ll go to hell if you leave.

 

[thebible]

Yes because as said in the book of Romans-

For whoever will call on The Name of the Lord will be saved

Romans 10:13

That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved

For with the heart a person believes resulting in righteousness and with the mouth he confesses resulting in salvation

Romans 10:9-10

Catholics and Protestants can be saved.

 

[thebible]

First, baptism is necessary to be saved, but the question of whether a person is baptized, even if they are not of the religion, is still in question because of baptism by desire. So with this, we cannot judge if someone is in heaven unless they have been proven and declared a Saint through the Catholic Church’s rigorous process for canonization.

At the same time, the Catholic church will never be able to tell who is in hell, therefore, they cannot discern souls for condemnation.

In short, all Protestants can still be saved. The thing is that being Protestant is actively rejection a number of teachings and laws of the Catholic Church. As Paul teaches about the Body of Christ, those who are not in full communion with the Body of Christ, believing in everything His Church teaches, will have a harder time in judgement if they are actively rejecting the Church’s teachings as it is considered a sin (from what I read about the applications of Mortal Sins in the CCC).

Example, if a Protestant rejects the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucherist, but they don’t have full knowledge of the teaching because they have been misled for their entire life, this instance wouldn’t be a Mortal Sin, but it probably is a venial sin because there is some negligence to finding the truth (lazy, sloth). If someone is actively rejecting it knowing everything the Church teaches, then it would definitely be a Mortal Sin.

In a way it sounds like you are saying Protestants still have to believe in Catholic teachings in order to be saved. Because Protestants reject all of the Catholic Church’s beliefs.

How can you be saved through baptism? For that is salvation by works.

For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God

not as a result of works so that no one may boast

Ephesians 2:8-9

The repentant theif who was crucified next to Jesus in Luke 23:42-43 spent his last moments on a cross never got baptized.

And he was saying Jesus remember me when You come in Your Kingdom!

And He said to him Truly I say to you today you shall be with Me in Paradise

Luke 23:42-43

 

[Hodos]

How can you be saved through baptism? For that is salvation by works.

We are not saved by performing a work, we are saved by Christ’s death on the cross. Baptism is one of the means by which Christ’s death, and our death to sin, is applied to us subjectively, and Christ’s resurrection, and our being born again a child of God, is applied to us subjectively. Baptism is a physical means of declaring the gospel and applying it to that person. In that light, baptism is not a work as you understand it. Baptism is the receipt of the promise of God’s grace. In other words, it is God doing all the work in baptism, not man. When seen in that light, then you would understand why Peter can say that baptism saves you (1 Peter 3:21), and why Paul can do the same (1 Timothy 3:5), and still hold on to the truth that we are saved by grace apart from works.

The issue that you may be having is that you seem to view baptism as an ordinance of God, rather than a physical means of declaring the receipt of God’s grace.

I would recommend you read the article on baptism from Luther’s Small Catechism.

Because Protestants reject all of the Catholic Church’s beliefs.

No we don’t. We reject those beliefs, and those beliefs only, that are in conflict with God’s word. We uphold the catholic faith as that which was preached and taught by the apostles, and reject those beliefs or practices that are not catholic in nature, but are innovations that obscure the gospel.

Here again, you might want to consult the Small Catechism and review Luther’s explanation of the Third Article of the Apostle’s Creed. If your copy says “Christian” you can replace that with “catholic” because that is what it originally said.

 

[lagerald24]

The repentant theif who was crucified next to Jesus in Luke 23:42-43 spent his last moments on a cross never got baptized.

For sure! God is not restricted solely to the sacraments He gave us. They are the ordinary way we receive the free gift of grace earned by Christ on the cross.

 

[rightness]

In a way it sounds like you are saying Protestants still have to believe in Catholic teachings in order to be saved. Because Protestants reject all of the Catholic Church’s beliefs.

How can you be saved through baptism? For that is salvation by works.

For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God

not as a result of works so that no one may boast

Ephesians 2:8-9

The repentant theif who was crucified next to Jesus in Luke 23:42-43 spent his last moments on a cross never got baptized.

And he was saying Jesus remember me when You come in Your Kingdom!

And He said to him Truly I say to you today you shall be with Me in Paradise

Luke 23:42-43

Sorry if I wasn’t being clear. Baptism is necessary for the initial grace, but that grace must be maintained through works. You can’t simply be baptized by doing charitable causes. Baptism establishes the covenant with God which is necessary for us to be in union with Him. I’m sure you know about James 2:14-26, where “faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead”. Works is also pretty broad term, but let’s not reduce Works in terms of filling up a jug, and doing charitable work is 2 cups of water and doing penance is 1 cup of water. It simply isn’t a measurement.

Salvation is understood to be how unified you are with the Body of Christ, and you can’t simply do that by just believing in Him. We must continually pursue the graces that Christ has given to us through the Eucharist, Confirmation, Confession, etc. As I mentioned, rejection the Catholic Church’s teachings in full knowledge, which is Jesus’s teachings since the Catholic Church is the one He founded on Peter, is to reject Christ, and that is a Mortal sin. Mortal sin means you have turned away from God, and until you confess through the Sacrament of Confession, you will have a sort of separation from the Body of Christ. Please emphasize the term “full knowledge” of Mortal Sin.

If a protestant rejects the Catholic Church’s teachings without really understanding it, it may not be Mortal Sin. Only God knows what’s in each persons heart. I think it’s quite possible that your grandfather’s salvation is still good because he did not know the full beauty of the Church that Jesus founded when he left. A lot of Catholics went that way even if they understood the liturgy.

Remember, we are all a part of the Body of Christ when we are baptized. Catholics wish to bring back all brothers and sisters to the Church that Jesus established. Salvation isn’t assured. If you want to keep quoting Paul, then listen to him in 1 Corinthians 4:4 “I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me.” Even he doesn’t know if he will go to Heaven, thus meaning he know there is no assurance of salvation simply by believing in God. If Paul doesn’t think his faith will save him automatically, how can a protestant?

 

[HopkinsReb]

Because Protestants reject all of the Catholic Church’s beliefs.

Wait, you don’t believe that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[Scott84]

If you were to ask this question to a Catholic 100 years ago, the resounding answer would be “There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.” That teaching remains true even to this day.

Traditionally the Catholic Church has taught that “the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing,” as Pope Pius XII put it in 1950 (encyclical ‘Humani generis’, par. 27).

In our era of ecumenism I know there is some confusion here about all this. But in 2007 Pope Benedict XVI affirmed the Catholic Church is the true Church. Pope Benedict XVI directed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to issue a clarification, issued on 29 June 2007 and stating that “the Second Vatican Council neither changed nor intended to change” the Catholic doctrine of the Church. A similar explanation had already been given by the same Congregation in 1985. The June 2007 clarification, approved by the Pope, restated the Catholic Church’s position that because their hierarchies represent a break in the historic episcopate (called the “apostolic succession”), Protestant denominations “are not true Churches” and are instead termed ‘ecclesial communities’, as contrasted with Orthodox communities, which have bishops in the apostolic line and are therefore considered true, if deficient, churches

So, the Church never changed course after Vatican II in saying the Catholic Church was no longer the one, true Faith founded by Jesus Christ himself.

If anyone could be saved than why be Catholic in the first place? Why not be Protestant, where they allow divorce and some even abortion! These teachings are not in line with those of Christ! They also reject His sacraments and do not have the authority to consecrate the Holy Eucharist, even if they believed in the Real Presence.

 

[Sleepdoc]

Spend some time with Jesus in adoration and he will direct you where he wants you. The focus is on loving Christ. Not the rule book. Read John 14:23
After we fall in love with Christ we submit our wills to his. Then we take on the Decalogue. In time we take on the beatitudes. Then church doctrine makes more sense.
There are three questions in life you’ve got to nail.
1- does God exist
2-who is Jesus
3- what’s in the box?
The first is the beginning of faith
The second is which faith, Christianity >>the others.
The third is Jesus in the tabernacle in all Catholic church’s ? If so, like Peter. “ where else can we go?”
That’s your church. That’s Gods Willed institution
Yes it’s full of rotten sinners but the spirit is in charge and always rights the ship.

 

[otjm]

A mortal sin requires three things: and leaving the Church fulfills one of them; it is serious (mortal, deadly).

We have a whole lot of people in the pews who are not particularly well catechized. Many who leave were not particularly well catechized, so it is entirely possible they do not reach the second requirement: that they know (meaning not words, but actually understand) that leaving the Church is serious (mortal, deadly).

So the question stops right there. And the short answer is “it is God’s problem” unless and until one of them starts to question the decision they made.

Some (likely a good number) leave because of anger, and my comment to that is that the more there is anger, the less there is rationality. That, too is God’s problem, unless and until they are willing to talk about it.

And by the way, I have over a number of years been a presenter in a program for Catholics returning home. And the first necessity of the program is not spewing about the Church, but rather listening (as in, active listening) to the individuals who show up.

 

[TK421]

My question in a nutshell is, can Catholics who become Protestants still be saved?

I know several people who were Catholic and became Protestant at various ages. My grandfather was being trained to be an altar boy back when Latin Mass was the standard, and when the priests refused to tell him what the Latin words he would be saying meant, he did not want to be part of a congregation where he had to say prayers and profess things that he did not know the meaning of. He went with his father to a Methodist church after that and became Protestant. He is one of the wisest, holiest men I know, who prays often and frequently cries when thinking about God’s grace. Another family I know converted to Catholicism after being convinced of typical Protestant faith v. works, idolatry, etc. talking points. They are wise, kind, holy people dedicated to studying God’s word, following his commandments, listening to the Holy Spirit, and living as he wants them to. My former pastor converted for the same reasons, and has a vibrant prayer life, loves God and others, and has been used by God in miraculous physical healings that even precipitated members if his family to rededicate themselves to Christ.

It is hard for me to believe that these men and women would be condemned for converting, especially when I’ve seen what seems to be the Holy Spirit working in and through them so beautifully. What us the Catholic Church’s position on this?

The answer to “can so and so who becomes such and such still be saved” is always - without exception - yes.

I mean this in a very charitable way, but depending on the circumstances of how a person is raised and what their exposure to the Church is, they might very well find more of the teachings of the Magisterium in a protestant church than what they find in their own Catholic family. There are statistically more American protestants who care about things like the Culture of Life, the sanctity of marriage, and donating to religious institutions than there are Catholics. That doesn’t tell the whole story but it does tell a lot of the story. Rome might be incorruptible to doctrinal error but that doesn’t mean as a culture that Catholicism doesn’t have some grave issues.

No, that does not and will never justify leaving the Church. Throwing the baby out with the bath water is always the wrong choice. It simply means to reserve judgement to God and not to presume what people’s motives and intentions are.

 

[Hodos]

If anyone could be saved than why be Catholic in the first place? Why not be Protestant, where they allow divorce and some even abortion! These teachings are not in line with those of Christ! They also reject His sacraments and do not have the authority to consecrate the Holy Eucharist, even if they believed in the Real Presence.

First, the Catholic Church allows divorce. Ever hear of an annulment? So this is a red herring. I have been to no Protestant Church that views divorce as a moral good. I will agree with you that many liberal mainline denominations have embraced abortion. This is an apostate position to the shame of the Church. That being said, ever hear of Andrew Cuomo? Nancy Pelosi? Chuck Schumer? Case in point, many professed Catholics reject the Christian position on abortion, again to the shame of the Church as a whole, and to Roman Catholicism in particular. Apostasy can be found in every Church body. Here is an example of your own Church body celebrating sinful behavior: Catholic Priest Gives Pulpit to Homosexual Couple - YouTube. With regard to rejecting the sacraments, no we don’t. An asinine statement with no evidence can be dismissed without evidence. With regard to having no authority to consecrate the Eucharist, please show me the scripture that supports your position on consecration of the Eucharist that allows you to make this declaration the Christ does not fulfill his promise to his elect by being present in the Eucharist.

 

[HopkinsReb]

First, the Catholic Church allows divorce. Ever hear of an annulment?

If they were never actually married, they can’t get divorced. An annulment is not a divorce.

With regard to having no authority to consecrate the Eucharist, please show me the scripture that supports your position on consecration of the Eucharist that allows you to make this declaration the Christ does not fulfill his promise to his elect by being present in the Eucharist.

Please show me the scripture that says that you should only turn to scripture for doctrine.

 

[Mboo]

Catholics who convert to Protestantism often mean well, but they make a serious mistake in rejecting the sacraments, especially Jesus in the Eucharist.

To take the sacraments is not an end, but a means to love God more. So are those who take the eucharistic testify to a charity better than the Protestants who do not take them? So let’s not forget that to whom God have given a lot, they will also have to give back a lot. So maybe these Protestants who do not take the Eucharist will be even more advantaged than us

 

[Mboo]

All I really care about is God, Jesus, the Eucharist, the Sacraments, Mary, the saints.

Church teachings about the above things are important to me.

I think God expects us to love him with ever more intense love. If the sacraments, Marian devotion, etc. do not produce an ever increasing charity to make a non-Catholic blush, then in my opinion one should be more worried than reassured

 

[rose321]

Love me with your whole heart soul and mind?
Obey the Commandments and the Love your neighbor as you love yourselves?
Teaching instructions Sermon on the Mount…How much have you loved me?
Love?