"Catholic Donors Keep Cash Flowing While Priests Abuse Children"

[srlucado]

Outrageous anti-Catholic news story du jour:

bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=a69DY8u8r5Kw

…After hundreds of incidents of priests sexually abusing their parishioners were disclosed in 2002 in the U.S., fundraising by bishops and parishes went up, said Harris, the author of “The Cost of Catholic Parishes and Schools,” published in 1996 by Sheed & Ward. He also has written 24 articles for national publications on financial and staffing issues in the American Catholic Church.

 

[Appealing_Woman]

I can understand people not wanting to pay for legal fees connected to the priest abuse scandals, but to withhold donations to help the poor and needy which we are called to do as Christians is beyond me. That’s like saying students shouldn’t receive an education because teachers abuse children. One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[lynx]

I can understand people not wanting to pay for legal fees connected to the priest abuse scandals, but to withhold donations to help the poor and needy which we are called to do as Christians is beyond me. That’s like saying students shouldn’t receive an education because teachers abuse children. One has nothing to do with the other.

So, with respect to donations, you have to take the good with the bad?

 

[bnbkaine]

Oh lynx- what does your comment even mean?

 

[lynx]

Oh lynx- what does your comment even mean?

The poster understands not wanting to support priest abuse legal fees. This is the bad. The good is supporting the poor and needy. The implicit question is where is the moral line drawn? If you donate money to the church should it go to paying off victims of sexual abuse and their legal fees?

 

[JohnSanzone5]

The poster understands not wanting to support priest abuse legal fees. This is the bad. The good is supporting the poor and needy. The implicit question is where is the moral line drawn? If you donate money to the church should it go to paying off victims of sexual abuse and their legal fees?

You confuse the immoral with the amoral. The diocese being sued is not necessarily complicit in the abuse–if this money were benefiting the guilty priest’s case alone, I believe there is an argument for the immorality of such appropriations. However, for the diocese’s continued functioning in its ‘good’ (i.e., moral) capacity, amoral considerations need to be taken, so as to defend it legally from the immoral mistakes of its servitors.

Also, in this country (as well as a firm tradition in the Church’s canon law) there is something called the ‘presumption of innocence’. This is something we take very seriously, here in America. The priest is not necessarily guilty, and–in this climate–cases against priests (with economic gain as the motivating aim) are not unheard of.

 

[secular_sam]

Its an interesting predicament for a member of any Church or organization.

Has anyone thought of how quickly the whole mess would be sorted out if donations to the Church stopped overnight?

 

[JohnSanzone5]

Its an interesting predicament for a member of any Church or organization.

Has anyone thought of how quickly the whole mess would be sorted out if donations to the Church stopped overnight?

Or, on the other hand, if the Church once again summoned the moral strength to follow its own teachings, and oppose the sexual revolution of the 1960s?

 

[OriginalJS]

From my observations, most Mass attending Catholics I know view the sexual abuse scandals as bad, but do not connect them with their own parish - while they give lip service to the concept of the universal church their real emotional connection is to their home church. They are quite unlikely to reduce their contributions because of the presence of unsavory characters in the clergy,

 

[Appealing_Woman]

The poster understands not wanting to support priest abuse legal fees. This is the bad. The good is supporting the poor and needy. The implicit question is where is the moral line drawn? If you donate money to the church should it go to paying off victims of sexual abuse and their legal fees?

Lynx, the article talked about contributions to Bishop’s Appeals. Most of these have nothing to do with legal fees for abuse scandals but are used in the local diocese to fund programs that help the needy. People schould not stop giving because of the scandals. They do have a right, however, to inquire as to how the funds they are contributing are being used. This information is usually distributed and made public anyway. I have seen many people use the abuse scandals as an excuse to not give to the Church. If we are in reality disciples of Christ, we are called to be good stewards and to share with others from the gifts He has given to us. The Church has always done a good job of using these funds where they are most needed.

 

[CAnnElizabeth]

I have found it unconscionable that the American Catholic church has had to pay out over a billion dollars for the sexual abuse of a relatively small percentage of priests. Unless Rome or each diocese has a growing business on the side that I’m unaware of, this money comes from us – in small weekly donations that often represent a sacrifice. I deeply resent this situation, particularly when there is a moral obligation to support the Church and when one sincerely wants to assist the poor and parish programs.

I’ve changed my personal donation pattern to be geared much more toward missionary societies and Catholic homeless shelters than to the parish or diocese. I recognize an obligation to those entities, but they don’t get the lion’s share of what I have to give.

There has been grave culpability in decision making regarding abusive priests in the past, and those bad decisions have resulted in the waste of too much of our money.

 

[lynx]

Lynx, the article talked about contributions to Bishop’s Appeals. Most of these have nothing to do with legal fees for abuse scandals but are used in the local diocese to fund programs that help the needy. People schould not stop giving because of the scandals. They do have a right, however, to inquire as to how the funds they are contributing are being used. This information is usually distributed and made public anyway. I have seen many people use the abuse scandals as an excuse to not give to the Church. If we are in reality disciples of Christ, we are called to be good stewards and to share with others from the gifts He has given to us. The Church has always done a good job of using these funds where they are most needed.

So if one were to inquire, and the answer was to pay off a guilty man’s attorney and additional abuse settlements you would still hand over the money? I am implying that the average church goer shouldn’t have to pay for a pedophile’s mistakes.

 

[Appealing_Woman]

If we were to use that logic, we would stop paying taxes to fund schools because some teachers abuse children.

Yes, a percentage of those monies may go to pay legal fees in some dioceses. It is up to the the individual, after informing him/herself about how monies are used, to make the decision about maintaining their levels of giving at the parish level or making direct contributions to specific organizations, keeping in mind that we have a responsibility, if we are attending Mass and practicing our faith, to support our local parish.

My point was that those programs that are not at issue should not be eliminated or restricted from giving and that it would be wrong to stop giving to the Church, say in Illinois because of something that happened in Ireland, especially when the programs being funded in the local diocese fund only local worthy programs.

 

[lynx]

If we were to use that logic, we would stop paying taxes to fund schools because some teachers abuse children.

If I knew my taxes were to pay for a guilty man and settlement fees then I would try not to pay them. I don’t think I should need to literally pay for their mistakes.

Yes, a percentage of those monies may go to pay legal fees in some dioceses. It is up to the the individual, after informing him/herself about how monies are used, to make the decision about maintaining their levels of giving at the parish level or making direct contributions to specific organizations, keeping in mind that we have a responsibility, if we are attending Mass and practicing our faith, to support our local parish.

And that’s fine. Support your local group. But, if you know your money is being used for something you don’t agree with then maybe you should fund local charities and programs directly.

 

[Sonny89]

From my observations, most Mass attending Catholics I know view the sexual abuse scandals as bad, but do not connect them with their own parish - while they give lip service to the concept of the universal church their real emotional connection is to their home church. They are quite unlikely to reduce their contributions because of the presence of unsavory characters in the clergy,

I’ve found much the same & although on one level I can understand where they’re coming from-in focusing on their own parish-I think the lack of connection with the Universal Church, at least in my parish, needs to be addressed.

I think It is also fairly easy to argue along the lines of “that may happen there but that could never happen here, and since my home church is disconnected I’ll keep paying my donations”…

 

[SoonerforChrist]

I think many have it wrong here. To suggest that tithing to the Church and the money being channeled to pay for legal fees is immoral is unfounded. You basically suggesting that your money is paying to support child abuse. Honestly I look at it as getting rid of the filth in the Church. We are paying for the sins of very very very very very very very few.

 

[lynx]

I think many have it wrong here. To suggest that tithing to the Church and the money being channeled to pay for legal fees is immoral is unfounded. You basically suggesting that your money is paying to support child abuse. Honestly I look at it as getting rid of the filth in the Church. We are paying for the sins of very very very very very very very few.

What kind of transparency is there for money usage and resolutions of priests found guilty? If this money were being paid to completely remove guilty parties then you have a strong point. However, if settlements are being made, and guilty parties are hanging around, then there arises the problem.

 

[SoonerforChrist]

What kind of transparency is there for money usage and resolutions of priests found guilty? If this money were being paid to completely remove guilty parties then you have a strong point. However, if settlements are being made, and guilty parties are hanging around, then there arises the problem.

I don’t know what kind of transparency is involved in each parish and how it is funneled up through each dioceses. I am not involved in how the Church handles its finances, but it is a moot point in my opinion.

Money is being paid because of poor poor decisions made by bishops, and because priests abused. Reality is the MSM and many others who care less about the victims are out to get a good and juicy story.

The reality is to even suggest in this case that you are promoting child abuse by tithing is frankly unfounded, and might I say asinine to suggest.

BTW what do you mean by guilty parties hanging around? Who is guilty? To what degree or extent?

 

[Corki]

So if one were to inquire, and the answer was to pay off a guilty man’s attorney and additional abuse settlements you would still hand over the money? I am implying that the average church goer shouldn’t have to pay for a pedophile’s mistakes.

In our diocese there has always been a clear statement that the annual appeal, called Diocisan Services Fund here, is not intermingled with funds for defending abuse claims.

If I knew my taxes were to pay for a guilty man and settlement fees then I would try not to pay them. I don’t think I should need to literally pay for their mistakes.

Really, how do you avoid paying your taxes? Our school taxes go to defense expenses for teachers and administrators accused of all kinds of misbehaviour - sexual and otherwise. School districts reach big dollar settlements all the time. The county and state taxes fund the public defenders offices which are the legal expense for many criminals much worse that those being discussed here. Not to mention that, once found guilty, our taxes pay to house, feed and educate many guilty men and women.

 

[1strongcatholic]

“For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come toward the light, so that his works might not be exposed.” --John 3:20

The Body of Christ is calling for light, not cash, to protect children.

Why isn’t the Vatican paying settlements? Does Rome accept NO responsibility in this matter?