Catholic Explanation of Repeated Prayers

[piety101]

Wildgreywolf

                  You state the Rosary leads one to a deeper devotion to Christ. So because ALL the saints before the 7th century, didn't pray the Rosary, let alone hear of it, they weren't as devoted to Christ as you are? That truly is an egotistical statement, considering a great many saints died for their faith. I guess they weren't devoted as you are, reciting your Rosary everyday, and that's why they died in the Colosseum. :confused: 

                    You also say we should only pray to our heavenly father and not to Jesus? Hmm, I guess another saint didn't know what you know when he prayed to Jesus when he was dying? See Acts 7:59

                      Next you say that if it wasn't for Jesus, we wouldn't have the Rosary today? Wildgreywolf, each mis statement you make, gets worse on every post. Just WHEN did Jesus ever give the Rosary prayer to his apostles to pass on to the church to pray? And where can such a prayer be found in church tradition for the first THOUSAND years of it's existence? The answer is NOWHERE.

                                Your last point. One needs the Rosary to ponder the mysteries of Christ? Really? Just how did the Catholic church get by for a thousand years pondering the mysteries of Christ without the Rosary recital, if what you say is true? Also when I go into my parish I see 12 stations on the wall, all reflecting those same mysteries. Do they count for anything?  Can I open my bible and read Isaiah chapter 53 and also ponder the  mysteries of Christ? If not why?

                                  Last, but not least our Lord said not to PRAY using vane repetition as the heathen do. He was speaking to believers not to do what the heathen do. What was he telling them NOT to do? Not to say words over and over and over and over in one setting. For that is what repetition means. Whether your in some kind of freaked out Pentecostal church yelling "Hallelujah, thank you Jesus fifty times or saying the Hail Mary fifty times, you are CONSTANTLY repeating yourself. And THAT is repetition and the Lord said DON'T do it.

 

[Adonis33]

Remember the Publican and the Pharisee in the temple - The Pharisee kept going on and on about how wonderful he was, while the publican kept striking his breast saying “Lord forgive me a sinner”. (St. Luke 18:9-14)
Jesus reminds us that it is the Publican went back home justified. Although the parable is used to illustrate exalting/humbling oneself, clearly the Publican was reapeating this psimple prayer. -

 

[viktor_aleksndr]

Jesus Christ prayed repeatedly the same prayer during his agony in the garden…

 

[BibleReader]

There are beginning to be too many posts here to read in an economical time period, so let me just say what I want to.

Again, “vain repetitions” does NOT include repetitious prayers of PRAISE. To prove this to yourself, read Psalm 136. It is JAMMED with a Rosary-like repetition of a prayer. If Rosary-like repetitions, per se, are sinful, then Psalm 136 is sinful.

“Vain repetitions” instead condemns faithless agonized prayer – BEGGING God for assistance, when we’re in trouble, with DOZENS of repeated requests, repeated BECAUSE we are agonizing: "God, ya gotta help me; GOD, YA GOTTA HELP ME; GOD, YA GOTTA HELP ME!"

In any event, the repeated prayers of the Rosary are just “background music” to the real prayer – contemplations of the Mysteries, which is perfectly NON-repetitive.

 

[john_ennis]

TobyLue:

Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. AMEN.

So it seems like only the last sentence of that prayer is focusing on Mary and purely on a petition from us while the rest of the “Hail Mary” is focusing on Jesus.

So the rosary is more about Jesus than about Mary.

And, implicit in that last sentence is the understanding that Mary is not the cause or origin of any benefit–any mercy or grace–deriving from the rosary.

Honor to Mary continuously directs us to Christ.

Peace.
John

 

[john_ennis]

piety101:

Last, but not least our Lord said not to PRAY using vane repetition as the heathen do. He was speaking to believers not to do what the heathen do. What was he telling them NOT to do? Not to say words over and over and over and over in one setting. For that is what repetition means. Whether your in some kind of freaked out Pentecostal church yelling "Hallelujah, thank you Jesus fifty times or saying the Hail Mary fifty times, you are CONSTANTLY repeating yourself. And THAT is repetition and the Lord said DON’T do it.

Please now, Piety; you cannot doubt that it is IMPOSSIBLE to utter in love and awe, “My Lord and my God,” too many times. Impossible!

Don’t ignore Jesus’s deliberate descriptor “vain.” When you describe the rosary as necessarily falling into this category, you are reading people’s hearts. You are saying you know whether or not they are praying vainly. You can’t know this.

Peace.
John

 

[john_ennis]

Hey, anybody see “Saving Private Ryan?” Remember when the dying GI called, “Momma…Momma!”?

Wonder if God was offended? Maybe that soldier should have thought first of Jesus and not his own mother?

Or is it possible that, recognizing that the unique love that came from his mother was in fact God’s love in a very special form, it was altogether appropriate for the soldier to call to his mother.

And it was altogether appropriate for John Paul, when shot, to utter, “Mary, my mother,” because God’s mother is surely his mother too.

And it is altogether appropriate for us to call to her, too, for we are merely accepting a unique aspect of God’s love, which he gives us through mothers.

Peace.
John

 

[Wildgraywolf]

lol, Part 1 of 2

piety101:

Wildgreywolf

You state the Rosary leads one to a deeper devotion to Christ. So because ALL the saints before the 7th century, didn’t pray the Rosary, let alone hear of it, they weren’t as devoted to Christ as you are?Well, that’s a ridiculous statement. The rosary or any devotional is not the only means to a deeper devotion to Christ. There are many devotionals out there with the rosary being just one of them. My great-grandfather didn’t have a car, but I do. So what?

piety101:

That truly is an egotistical statement,

Agreed. And that egotistical statement came from you.

piety101:

considering a great many saints died for their faith. I guess they weren’t devoted as you are, reciting your Rosary everyday, and that’s why they died in the Colosseum.

Ouch! More cheap shots! A devotional is not the measure of ones faith; it is simply a tool that helps in the maintenance of that faith.

Actually and quite honestly, I haven’t prayed the rosary in years. GASP!

I don’t believe you have a problem with repetitious prayer or devotionals in general; you have a problem with Mary. I’d address your complaints to God the Father after all He got her into this. Why else focus on the rosary when there is a vast collection of prayers and devotions out there? And most all of them contain some repetition.

piety101:

You also say we should only pray to our heavenly father and not to Jesus? Hmm, I guess another saint didn’t know what you know when he prayed to Jesus when he was dying? See Acts

7:59Perhaps you should re-read my previous post. My point was that there are different types of prayer not limited only to the format Christ taught. I believe we are in agreement here.

piety101:

Next you say that if it wasn’t for Jesus, we wouldn’t have the Rosary today? Wildgreywolf, each mis statement you make, gets worse on every post.

The only thing getting worse in each post is you taking me out of context and misquoting.

piety101:

Just WHEN did Jesus ever give the Rosary prayer to his apostles to pass on to the church to pray? And where can such a prayer be found in church tradition for the first THOUSAND years of it’s existence? The answer is NOWHERE.

I never said Jesus gave us the rosary. The rosary is a devotional based on things Christ experienced and expressed in terms of mysteries; the Joyful, the Sorrowful, and the Glorious. If Christ did not do the things He did or suffer the things He suffered then, quite simply, there would be no rosary. That’s what I meant. How is that a miss-statement? Please explain…

When any devotional came into being is irrelevant; they happen when the happen. Do you have some objection to devotionals in general?

My father-in-law is a Baptist and he prays his daily bible devotion every morning; he’s been doing that for years. Should he stop based on your criteria that Christ didn’t tell us to have bible devotions or that he offers his devotion in vain because he’s be using the same devotion for at least 17 years? Maybe I should ask him how the early church got by for nearly 400 years without bible devotion or even a bible for that matter.

 

[Wildgraywolf]

lol, Part 2 of 2

piety101:

Your last point. One needs the Rosary to ponder the mysteries of Christ? Really?

I never said that; please re-read the post and be honest enough not to miss-quote me. Any devotional is simply a tool for the faithful to use be they in the form of a meditation, novena, etc.

piety101:

Just how did the Catholic church get by for a thousand years pondering the mysteries of Christ without the Rosary recital, if what you say is true? Also when I go into my parish I see 12 stations on the wall, all reflecting those same mysteries. Do they count for anything? Can I open my bible and read Isaiah chapter 53 and also ponder the mysteries of Christ? If not why?

I think the church always pondered sacred mysteries. The rosary is just another way to ponder them. I’m still not certain why you believe the span of time is important. The cross or crucifix wasn’t popular within the early church, but it is now and Christ didn’t tell us to venerate the cross, but we do. Are you saying that because Christ didn’t institute it and/or because it wasn’t part of the early church we shouldn’t display or venerate the cross?

Participating in devotion is an optional choice, as I said in my previous post. Also as I said in a pervious post “generally speaking, devotionals don’t come from the institutional church, but from the laity and religious. I don’t claim to say one is better than the other. Since you brought it up The Stations of the Cross is my personal devotional of choice. And I exercise that choice by either participating in the Stations of the Cross or by praying them (like you from the bible) in a meditational format. Also, the Stations of the Cross is not without it’s repetitions… “We adore you O Christ and we praise you!”, “Because by your holy cross you have redeemed the world.”

piety101:

Last, but not least our Lord said not to PRAY using vane repetition as the heathen do. He was speaking to believers not to do what the heathen do. What was he telling them NOT to do? Not to say words over and over and over and over in one setting. For that is what repetition means.

I agree Christ doesn’t want, like, or desire prayers in vain repetition. And “vain repetition” is the key. I believe if it were simply a numbers game Christ would have given us better guidelines to follow.

Ah, very good, you know what repetition means now what does “vain” mean? The “vain” part is one of Christ’s criteria of “vain repetition”. It is foolish to focus on one and ignore the other. The pagans Jesus spoke of offered vain repetitious prayers; are you somehow saying that repetitive prayer is not only vain but in some way a pagan practice of Catholics and others? Hmm…

piety101:

Whether your in some kind of freaked out Pentecostal church yelling "Hallelujah, thank you Jesus fifty times or saying the Hail Mary fifty times, you are CONSTANTLY repeating yourself. And THAT is repetition and the Lord said DON’T do it.

You really are missing the point. Christ spoke about repetition without meaning. In other words; repetition with meaning (sincerity) is acceptable to Him. If a prayer starts out vain/empty (insincere) the number of repetitions isn’t going to make it sincere. Jesus objected to people praying for vanity’s sake, praying for appearances sake, praying repetitiously to impress folks with their “holiness”. You really need to read your bible and consider the context of what is being said and why. Christ is concerned with sincerity - truth; the “what” and the “why” together equal a whole truth; if the “why” = 0 then the “what” (no matter how many) won’t amount to anything. It is a recurring theme; “in spirit and in truth”, “faith and works”, “practice what you preach”, “do unto others… as you would do unto them”. See?

Please explain Luke 18:1-8. Why does Jesus want us to repeat a petition to the Father over and over again? Didn’t God hear it the first time?

 

[Pete2]

Piety101, the early church may not have prayed the rosary, but I see a pretty decent source for devotion to Mary in John 19:26-27, I think you’ll agree:

26 When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.” 27 Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.

Jesus told his disciple to treat Mary like their own mother, and Mary a mother to this disciple and all of us. So any devotion to Mary, modern or ancient, should be pleasing to God I would think. A devotion that asks Mary to pray for us, while we contemplate the life and sacrifice of Jesus, and pray directly to God, seems like a pretty good idea…even if the Church didn’t come up with it right away.

Pete

 

[piety101]

Wildgreywolf

                 **ONE MORE TIME!**

                  Did the early Catholic church for a thousand years recite the Rosary or not? Were they less pious then you? Are they now in hell for not doing so and for not wearing the scapular of Mary on their bodies before dying?  If I am just like those SAME Catholic saints who chose not to pray to Mary, but rely solely in Christ for  their all, then how can you get on this forum and judge me for not doing what you do? 

                   The Catholic church for a thousand years knew a lot more than you do about doctrine than you or your old man. They wrote of other doctrines as well. They died before lions. They were hung up on crosses and burned alive. They never recited ONE ROSARY, not one. Are they in hell now because they didn't pass your Rosary test?  If they are, then I want to be LIKE THEM and not like you and all others who judge others for their Catholic faith, because they choose not to pray to Mary, but to Jesus and have no need of reciting Rosaries five times a day to grant them graces to enter heaven. I'll stand with the likes of Ignatius, Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, thank you. :mad:

 

[Wildgraywolf]

piety101:

Wildgraywolf

**ONE MORE TIME!**Okay, I’m game.

piety101:

Did the early Catholic church for a thousand years recite the Rosary or not?

Nope. Praying the rosary in it’s current form didn’t start until sometime in the 13th. Century, prior to that the early church prayed a rosary consisting of 150 psalms.

piety101:

Were they less pious then you?

Nope. It’s more likely they were more pious than me.

piety101:
Are they now in hell for not doing so and for not wearing the scapular of Mary on their bodies before dying?I can’t answer this one… Sorry.

piety101:

If I am just like those SAME Catholic saints who chose not to pray to Mary, but rely solely in Christ for their all, then how can you get on this forum and judge me for not doing what you do?

Here’s your chance to educate me. Have there been any Saints who chose not to pray to Mary? Would that include the Confiteor at mass?

Christ is the center of all things and there are many paths and methods that can lead us to a deeper devotion to Christ.

I haven’t judged you at all; re-read my posts. I simply said in my first post that the rosary as a devotional will lead to a greater devotion to Christ. I don’t mean greater in the form of size, but in depth. And, I also said that the rosary is not the only way to achieve a greater devotion to Christ. The rosary is one of possibly hundreds of devotions that have developed over the centuries and it is by far the most popular and the most criticized.

piety101:
The Catholic Church for a thousand years knew a lot more than you do about doctrine than you or your old man. They wrote of other doctrines as well.Agreed, however my father never had anything to do with this discussion. I never mentioned him either.

piety101:

They died before lions. They were hung up on crosses and burned alive. They never recited ONE ROSARY, not one. Are they in hell now because they didn’t pass your Rosary test? If they are, then I want to be LIKE THEM and not like you and all others who judge others for their Catholic faith, because they choose not to pray to Mary, but to Jesus and have no need of reciting Rosaries five times a day to grant them graces to enter heaven. I’ll stand with the likes of Ignatius, Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, thank you.

Well… This just blew me away. I urge you to re-read my posts, you have misunderstood or ignored much if not all of what I was saying and why I was saying it and you miss-quoted me in your previous post as well. What you have written here does not reflect anything I had responded to previously.

What I said about the rosary was to explain it’s purpose - in as much as what benefit it holds to those who pray it. I attempted to explain how the repetitions of Hail Mary’s are not said in vain but are necessary to help promote the meditation on the mysteries.

At no time did I suggest that you or anyone who didn’t pray the rosary was going to hell. At no time did I suggest that the rosary must be prayed by anyone, but rather I attempted to explain the benefits of praying it.

I do not have a rosary test and I personally do not pray the rosary. I much prefer the Stations of the Cross both as an activity in church and as a private devotion at home. If you had read my post you would have known that.

The topic of this thread focused on repetition of prayers. You chose to focus on the rosary and I chose to respond to what you wrote and questions you asked. You have not responded to any of the questions I asked you.

Your objections have changed from the repetition of prayers said in vain to the disapproval if not disdain of praying to Mary, the rosary and the scapular of all things (why did you bring that up anyway?). I find this greatly disturbing, especially from a Catholic.

 

[Steve_Andersen]

Delgadoajj:

…How do y’all answer a Protestant that uses the Scripture above to try to prove that prayers such as the Rosary are vain? …

(1) Tell them that it is very high-handed for them to assume that just because someone repeats a prayer that they don’t mean it every time.

(2) Remind them, charitably of course, of the vacuous emptiness of the unfortunately popular “Praise Choir” among certain Protestants

 

[piety101]

Wildgreywolf

                   You admit that you do not even pray the Rosary and you judge me? God, spare me from self righteous hypocrites who see the speck in my eye, but fail to see the timber in theirs!!! :mad: 

                     Now listen up OK. I choose to have the faith of the early Catholic church who trusted in Christ OK? Since they did not pray to Mary or recite the Rosary daily, I choose to do exactly what they did. Got it?

                      Why do you think I converted to becoming a Catholic? Because of what the church Fathers wrote, that's why. If their testimony cannot be accepted and is now rejected by the modern day church, I can't help that. If the modern church wants to have queers become priests, I can't stop them. If the church wants to declare Mary a co redeemer, alongside Jesus, I can't stop that either. If the church wants to advocate mandatory celibacy for their priests, then I can't stop that either. But I sure KNOW BETTER. I know for a fact that the early church never taught these heresies. And they didn't pray to Mary and they didn't recite daily Rosaries. 

                        Since I have studied this and know these things, I CHOOSE to be faithful to the pure Catholic church that once was. Do you understand now? Good day.

 

[Wildgraywolf]

piety101:

Wildgreywolf

You admit that you do not even pray the Rosary and you judge me? God, spare me from self righteous hypocrites who see the speck in my eye, but fail to see the timber in theirs!!!

How have I juged you? It’s easy enough to paste the offending quote or quotes for all to see instead of accusing me. Short of that I really have no clue what you’re talking about.

piety101:

Now listen up OK. I choose to have the faith of the early Catholic church who trusted in Christ OK? Since they did not pray to Mary or recite the Rosary daily, I choose to do exactly what they did. Got it?

Okay, but, I never said you had to recite the rosary or pray to Mary. I was only explaining why other folks do.

piety101:

Why do you think I converted to becoming a Catholic? Because of what the church Fathers wrote, that’s why. If their testimony cannot be accepted and is now rejected by the modern day church, I can’t help that. If the modern church wants to have queers become priests, I can’t stop them. If the church wants to declare Mary a co redeemer, alongside Jesus, I can’t stop that either. If the church wants to advocate mandatory celibacy for their priests, then I can’t stop that either. But I sure KNOW BETTER. I know for a fact that the early church never taught these heresies. And they didn’t pray to Mary and they didn’t recite daily Rosaries.

Since I have studied this and know these things, I CHOOSE to be faithful to the pure Catholic church that once was. Do you understand now? Good day.

No, I don’t understand. What does any of this have to do with vain repeitious prayers, people who do pray the rosary, or any one of the questions I asked you in my previous posts?

 

[mercygate]

piety101:

Wildgreywolf

You admit that you do not even pray the Rosary and you judge me? God, spare me from self righteous hypocrites who see the speck in my eye, but fail to see the timber in theirs!!!

. . . If the church wants to advocate mandatory celibacy for their priests, then I can’t stop that either. But I sure KNOW BETTER.** I know for a fact that the early church never taught these heresies.** And they didn’t pray to Mary and they didn’t recite daily Rosaries.

Since I have studied this and know these things, I CHOOSE to be faithful to the pure Catholic church that once was. Do you understand now? Good day.

Self-righteous hypocrites? We’re reduced to name calling now?

“The pure Catholic Church that once was?” So the Church is teaching heresy? The Rosary is heresy? Clerical celibacy is heresy? Doctrinal development is heresy?

As a Convert, I find your assertion that you “KNOW BETTER” than the Church utterly insupportable. The teaching of the Church and her understanding of doctrine did not stop dead at some imaginary dateline before the year 500. The Church is Christ. She lives. She engages the world through the millennia with her teaching, always the same, always new.

 

[john_ennis]

piety101:

Wildgreywolf

You admit that you do not even pray the Rosary and you judge me? God, spare me from self righteous hypocrites who see the speck in my eye, but fail to see the timber in theirs!!!

Now listen up OK. I choose to have the faith of the early Catholic church who trusted in Christ OK? Since they did not pray to Mary or recite the Rosary daily, I choose to do exactly what they did. Got it?

Why do you think I converted to becoming a Catholic? Because of what the church Fathers wrote, that’s why. If their testimony cannot be accepted and is now rejected by the modern day church, I can’t help that. If the modern church wants to have queers become priests, I can’t stop them. If the church wants to declare Mary a co redeemer, alongside Jesus, I can’t stop that either. If the church wants to advocate mandatory celibacy for their priests, then I can’t stop that either. But I sure KNOW BETTER. I know for a fact that the early church never taught these heresies. And they didn’t pray to Mary and they didn’t recite daily Rosaries.

Since I have studied this and know these things, I CHOOSE to be faithful to the pure Catholic church that once was. Do you understand now? Good day.

If the Church today can teach heresy, perhaps the early Church was heretical as well. If the Church today is not protected from teaching error, perhaps the early Fathers whom you follow were in error themselves.
Heck, perhaps the very Scripture you use to test againts heresy is wrongly defined, and is not Scripture at all.

What is your Authority, if not the very Rock that the Fathers themselves followed–the visible and identifiable Church which continues to be the pillar of Truth?

Peace.
John

 

[johnq]

piety101:

I CHOOSE to be faithful to the pure Catholic church that once was. Do you understand now? Good day.

My bother piety,

I admire your zeal; nobody will ever accuse you of being luke warm. God has bestowed a great grace upon you. If you could please pray for me that I may have the gift of zeal in its fullness I would be eternally grateful. If you do not mind, please add the gift of charity, because we know zeal without love is just a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

I have some questions for you.

1. 
   *]Is the Church the pillar and foundation of truth?
   *]Is the Church in heresy? If this is true, please explain why Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against Her? Did He break His promise and leave us without a good shepherd forcing us to interpret what is right and wrong?
   *]Where in scripture or the early Church fathers does it say that our beliefs must come from the bible and the early Church fathers alone or that the Church cannot grow like the mustard seed?
   
   I look forward to your responses. You are in our prayers.
   
   May God

 

[piety101]

You may kick and scream all you want and curse me to hell all of you, BUT anytime that the modern church changes what has already been established for hundreds of years by the early and pure Catholic church that is heresy and twisting established teachings period. Bishops were once allowed to marry. The Rosary was never recited daily. Mary was never directly prayed to and revered as much as Jesus. I have all of William Jurgens volumes in my home. Also I forgot to mention that queers were not allowed to be ordained either in the early Catholic Church.

                                        If you want to shut your eyes to the truths of these matters than wallow in your blindness. But God knows the truth and so does church history. Hundreds of parishes have closed because of the church scandal of sick, perverted pedophile priests who SHOULD be in prisons and not moved to other parishes. Untold millions are used by the church to pay off parents of abused victims. Why? All because the church allows homosexuals to enter the priesthood and still continues to.

                                           None of this existed in the early church and would not been allowed period. The modern church needs to morally clean house.  Paul the once great apostle once said that in the last days many shall depart from the faith. The church is not to get better, but worse and God shall cause judgment to fall upon it. You are self deceived into thinking all is better than ever and the early church was not up to what the modern church now is. That is so far from the truth it is pathetic. I say, let us return to the once pure and holy faith of our fathers. :thumbsup:

 

[TobyLue]

The Catholic church for a thousand years knew a lot more than you do about doctrine than you or your old man. They wrote of other doctrines as well. They died before lions. They were hung up on crosses and burned alive. They never recited ONE ROSARY, not one. Are they in hell now because they didn’t pass your Rosary test? If they are, then I want to be LIKE THEM and not like you and all others who judge others for their Catholic faith,** because they choose not to pray to Mary,** but to Jesus and have no need of reciting Rosaries five times a day to grant them graces to enter heaven. I’ll stand with the likes of Ignatius, Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, thank you

Uhh, I dont think this is entirely correct. Maybe the Early Church didnt have the Rosary but prayers to Mary were well known I will just list a few of the ECF’s writings that I found. So if we want to be like the Early Church, then we need to imitate them in prayers to Mary. Such as:

“Under your mercy we take refuge, O Mother of God. Do not reject our supplications in necessity, but deliver us from danger,[O you] alone pure and alone blessed.” Sub Tuum Praesidium, Egypt 3rd Century, From Rylands Papyrus,in MCF,79

  "O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all O Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides."** Athanasius, Homily of the Papyrus of Turin,71:216(ante AD 373**),in MCF,106

  "Give milk, Mother to him who is our food, give milk to the bread coming down from heaven ... give milk to him who made you such that he could be made fruitfulness in conception and in birth, did not take from you the ornament of virginity." **Augustine,Sermon 369:1(AD 430)**,in THEO,187

 "Hail to thee Mary, Mother of God, to whom in towns and villages and in island were founded churches of true believers" **Cyril of Alexandria,** Homily 11(ante **AD 444**),in CE

  "Hail, our desirable gladness; Hail, O rejoicing of the Churches; Hail, O name that breathes out sweetness; Hail, face that radiates divinity and grace; Hail, most venerable memory;" **Theodotus of Ancrya, Homily 4:3(ante AD 446)**,in MCF,267

  "O Virgin all holy, he who has said of you all that is honorable and glorious has not sinned against the truth, but remains unequal to your merit. Look down upon us from above and be propitious to us. Lead us in peace and having brought us without shame to the throne of judgment, grant us a place at the right hand of your Son, that we may borne off to heaven and sing with angels to the uncreated, consubstantial Trinity" **Basil of Seleucia, PG 85:452(ante AD 459**),in THEO,187

  "Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, because thou didst conceive Christ, the Son of God, the Redeemer of our souls" **Coptic Ostraca (AD 600)**,in CE

  "We today also remain near you, O Lady. Yes, I repeat, O Lady, Mother of God and Virgin. We bind our souls to your hope, as to a most firm and totally unbreakable anchor, consecrating to you mind, soul, body, and all our being and honoring you, as much as we can, with psalms, hymns, and spiritual canticles."** John of Damascene, Homily 1 on the Dormition,14(ante AD 749)**,in MCF,408

 "Let us entrust ourselves with all our soul's affection to the intercession of the Blessed Virgin: let us all, with all our strength, beg her patronage, that, at the moment when on earth we surround her with our suppliant homage, she herself may deign in heaven to commend us with fervent prayer. For without any doubt she who merited to bring ransom for those who needed deliverance, can more than all the saints benefit by her favor those who have received deliverance" **Ambrose Autpert, Assumption of the Virgin,** (ante AD 778)PL 39:2134,in THEO,188

I too choose to be like the Early Church so I pray to Mary, and I have an advantage. The Rosary has evolved over the centuries and can fully meditate on the Life of Jesus via the Rosary.

Ad Jesus Per Mariam