Catholic Fanatics!

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Church_Militant said:
:eek: NO way!?
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Historical fact.
Now his student, whose name was Seymore I believe, was a poor uneducated African-American had to sit outside Parham’s Bible classroom because he did not believe in race-mixing. Seymore later went on to found his own church and the Azuza Street revival, where it all began.
Many fundamentalists were also, if not actual members, were very sympathetic to the Klan. William Bell Reilly, Bob Jones Sr. (one of the buildings on his campus is named after a Klan grand dragon), Bob Schuler, Frank Norris and others.
 
JustaServant said:
Historical fact.
Now his student, whose name was Seymore I believe, was a poor uneducated African-American had to sit outside Parham’s Bible classroom because he did not believe in race-mixing. Seymore later went on to found his own church and the Azuza Street revival, where it all began.
Many fundamentalists were also, if not actual members, were very sympathetic to the Klan. William Bell Reilly, Bob Jones Sr. (one of the buildings on his campus is named after a Klan grand dragon), Bob Schuler, Frank Norris and others.
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Great googlymoogly! I wasn’t aware of that. Not their most shining moment is it… That might also explain where some of the anti-Catholic influences have come from, since the KKK has never any love for our most holy faith. 😦
 
Church_Militant said:
Great googlymoogly! I wasn’t aware of that. Not their most shining moment is it… That might also explain where some of the anti-Catholic influences have come from, since the KKK has never any love for our most holy faith. 😦
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Google Bibb Graves, Alabama Govenor in the twenties, Bob Jones University, and the Klan. Bob Jones Sr. had a very cozy relationship with the Klan. It’s never been proven however, whether he himself was a member. Graves was a Grand Dragon, and a dormitory on thier campus is named after him.
Curiously, that anti-Catholic hate arised similtaniously with the rise of fundamentalism in the 1920s.
 
JustaServant said:
Historical fact.
Now his student, whose name was Seymore I believe, was a poor uneducated African-American had to sit outside Parham’s Bible classroom because he did not believe in race-mixing. Seymore later went on to found his own church and the Azuza Street revival, where it all began.
Many fundamentalists were also, if not actual members, were very sympathetic to the Klan. William Bell Reilly, Bob Jones Sr. (one of the buildings on his campus is named after a Klan grand dragon), Bob Schuler, Frank Norris and others.
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Important note here, for the sake of strict accuracy.

While it can be posited that all (or at least, the vast majority) of Pentecostals are also fundamentalists, the reverse is NOT true. NOT all fundamentalists are (or were) Pentecostals by any stretch of the imagination. Bob Jones, Sr. is a classic example. (And yes, he was a racist.)
 
JustaServant said:
Those are ‘United Pentecostals’. They are a sub-sect of Pentecostalism, considered heretics by ‘Full Gospel’ and Assembly of God’ churches.
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So-called “Oneness” Pentecostals represent a minority in the movement. They were a schism from the Assemblies of God, early in the organization of that body.
 
JustaServant said:
Historical fact.
Now his student, whose name was Seymore I believe, was a poor uneducated African-American had to sit outside Parham’s Bible classroom because he did not believe in race-mixing. Seymore later went on to found his own church and the Azuza Street revival, where it all began.
Many fundamentalists were also, if not actual members, were very sympathetic to the Klan. William Bell Reilly, Bob Jones Sr. (one of the buildings on his campus is named after a Klan grand dragon), Bob Schuler, Frank Norris and others.
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For the sake of accuracy:

The Azuza Street revival was multi-racial.
 
It should be also noted that back in the 1940’s, Oral Roberts was strongly criticized in the South because he insisted on racial integration in his crusade meetings.

There is much to legitimately criticize regarding Pentecostalism, but let’s not paint with too broad a brush here.

Blessings,
 
David_Zampino said:
Important note here, for the sake of strict accuracy.

While it can be posited that all (or at least, the vast majority) of Pentecostals are also fundamentalists, the reverse is NOT true. NOT all fundamentalists are (or were) Pentecostals by any stretch of the imagination. Bob Jones, Sr. is a classic example. (And yes, he was a racist.)
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There has always been animosity between hard-core fundamentalists and Pentecostals, that is true. But when fundamentalism began as a movement, it was trans-denominational. Jones was a Methodist, Billy Sunday was Presbyterian, Norris was a Baptist. Pentecostals had a shaky relationship with early fundamentalists. Although a Pentecostal did sit on the board of BJU when the college began.
 
JustaServant said:
There has always been animosity between hard-core fundamentalists and Pentecostals, that is true. But when fundamentalism began as a movement, it was trans-denominational. Jones was a Methodist, Billy Sunday was Presbyterian, Norris was a Baptist. Pentecostals had a shaky relationship with early fundamentalists. Although a Pentecostal did sit on the board of BJU when the college began.
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Even the term “Pentecostalism” is broad to the point of borderline inaccuracy. There are two major “schools” of Pentecostalism (three, if you want to include the “Oneness” movement).

The “Holiness” school of Pentecostalism traces its roots back prior to Azuza, etc., to the Holiness movement of Wesleyan Methodism (which, in its non-Pentecostal manifestations, resulted in the founding of the Wesleyan church and the Church of the Nazarene denominations.) The denominations which formed from the “Holiness” school include the Pentecostal Holiness, the Church of God (Cleveland), the Church of God of Prophecy, and the Church of God in Christ.

“The Baptistic” school of Pentecostalism traces its theological understanding through traditional Baptist thought (frequently at least partially Calvinistic in nature) to which is added the Pentecostal experience. If you imagine that this might make for uncomfortable theological bedfellows, you would be correct! 😃 The major denomination which formed from the Baptistic school is the Assemblies of God.
 
As a Protestant, I wouldn’t mind in the least if a sincere Catholic said to me:
“You are under the bondage of SATANIC Pentecostal cults!”
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I’m a Presbyterian (aka the frozen chosen), so the Pentecostal allusion is a might far-fetched, but I’d want to hear the reasoning behind the statement. Maybe there’s a good point being made and maybe I can learn something.

What I’m reading in the posts above is the same thing that pretty much washed the Lord Jesus Christ out of my local church and turned it (back) into a Buddy-Jesus Social Club. That is, an intolerance toward those who really, really believe the Bible, and take it pretty literally. (For y’all Catholics, add Church tradition and authority to the Bible.)

We provide these bulwarks of our faith to the adherents, and then ***** and moan when they take them very seriously. Tar and feathers! Drive them out! When’s the next potluck?
 
David_Zampino said:
Even the term “Pentecostalism” is broad to the point of borderline inaccuracy. There are two major “schools” of Pentecostalism (three, if you want to include the “Oneness” movement).

The “Holiness” school of Pentecostalism traces its roots back prior to Azuza, etc., to the Holiness movement of Wesleyan Methodism (which, in its non-Pentecostal manifestations, resulted in the founding of the Wesleyan church and the Church of the Nazarene denominations.) The denominations which formed from the “Holiness” school include the Pentecostal Holiness, the Church of God (Cleveland), the Church of God of Prophecy, and the Church of God in Christ.

“The Baptistic” school of Pentecostalism traces its theological understanding through traditional Baptist thought (frequently at least partially Calvinistic in nature) to which is added the Pentecostal experience. If you imagine that this might make for uncomfortable theological bedfellows, you would be correct! 😃 The major denomination which formed from the Baptistic school is the Assemblies of God.
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In fact, it goes back further to England and Edward Irving.

A Calvinistic Pentecostal Baptist? My head is hurting.😃
 
gepnav said:
I’m a Presbyterian (aka the frozen chosen), so the Pentecostal allusion is a might far-fetched, but I’d want to hear the reasoning behind the statement. Maybe there’s a good point being made and maybe I can learn something.
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Interestingly, during the Azuza Street revival, newspaper accounts called them ‘fanatics’.
But the question is, why?
I think the answer lies in the ‘manifestations’ that are claimed. Can a theology based on subjective emotions or experiences be taken seriously or at face value? If we can look behind the ‘manifestations’ themselves we can see the motivations for them.
Are the people looking to worship?
Or are they looking for a supernatural manifestation?
I believe it was Rodney-Howard Brown, who during the so-called ‘laughing revival’ of the nineties said: ‘Whether it’s God or the Devil, as long as something is happening.’
 
Bluegoat said:
Well, I know a few Calvinist Baptists, so I guess I can imagine it.
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I guess I don’t know my Protestant religions as much as I thought.

I thought that the Calvinist doctrine led to Presbyterianism which led to Baptists.
Am I all fouled up or what?
 
greggy53 said:
I guess I don’t know my Protestant religions as much as I thought.

I thought that the Calvinist doctrine led to Presbyterianism which led to Baptists.
Am I all fouled up or what?
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The original “Baptist” movement, believe it or not, came out of English Anglicans. The first “Baptist” church in the Colonies was in Rhode Island, after Roger Williams was “invited” to leave Massachusetts Bay.

While the Baptists and the Congregationalists held many beliefs in common (including a congregational form of church structure and government) Baptists felt VERY strongly about the inappropriateness of any connection between Church and State, while the Congregationalists had “Established” churches in Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New Hampshire.
 
David_Zampino said:
It can certainly be problematic when an otherwise orthodox Catholic tries to impose his/her own spirituality or personal preferences or pious practices, etc. on others. It’s the “I’m more Catholic than the Pope” syndrome! 😦
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Honestly?? You really think this?? We are COMMANDED to preach the Gospel of Christ - not the wishy washy soft and fuzzy version that does not offend. We are COMMANDED to spread the TRUTH that Christ left us through HIS One True Faith in the Catholic Church. How in the world can anyone be TOO Catholic? And why would they ever want to apologize for it or feel bad about it? I am not talking about someone who goes over the heretical cliff and starts twisting Church teaching - I am talking about someone who is on fire with their Faith - and wants everyone to be Catholic and go to heaven - and is not afraid to say it!!

Personal preferences? Being Catholic is not a personal preference - it is GOD’s preference.

Shouldn’t we ALL strive to be more Catholic than the Pope? Isn’t that what wishing and praying to be holy is all about?
neophyte said:
I’ve been to hard-core Pentacostal services several times, and have found them to be deeply disturbing. I don’t find your acquaintance’s characterization to be laughable.
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I do not think the comment is laughable either - I commend them for trying to get someone out of a horrific situation that only endangers their soul.

I say BE a radical and fanatical Catholic!!! 👍 The original 12 were pretty darn radical in their time - so why now is it so politically incorrect to live our Faith radically?? 🤷

Stand up for what you believe in!!! Pray for holiness!!! Grab the hands of as many as you can, and bring them to heaven with you!! And sometimes this means not being the favorite at the family cook out - well, too darn bad. Some things are more important than playing nice nice with the neighbors. Eternity is a very very long time.

~Liza
 
Liza,

You are totally misconstruing my statement.

Totally.

I’m not talking about compromising the Faith. Not at all – and nothing in my original statement could remotely be construed as to suggesting this.

I am not suggesting a watered-down, “Catholic-lite” or “Cafeteria Catholic” sort of situation.

I’m not talking about not being fervent about preaching the Gospel.

What I AM talking about is those persons who fall into one of two categories:
  1. Those who insist on trying to make the non-essential out to be essential.
  2. Those who insist on trying to force others into their idea of the “perfect Catholic” on matters of personal spirituality or piety.
That’s what I am talking about – and that can be a serious problem.
 
David_Zampino said:
What I AM talking about is those persons who fall into one of two categories:
  1. Those who insist on trying to make the non-essential out to be essential.
  2. Those who insist on trying to force others into their idea of the “perfect Catholic” on matters of personal spirituality or piety.
That’s what I am talking about – and that can be a serious problem.
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Not trying to be combative - can you give me some examples of both categories for clarity?

~Liza
 
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