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Catholic Funeral Mass Celebrated for Evangelical Bishop Tony Palmer
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St_Francis
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phil19034
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What are you mystified about? This sounds like a miracle in the making. I pray that Pope Francis can bring these people home. If so, this protestant bishop just might become a saint.
This protestant bishop wanted to become Catholic but stayed protestant to be bring protestants home to Rome.
This is giving me tears.:grouphug:
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Corki
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No one is saying that he may not have been a good man or lived a saintly life. But that doesn’t make him a validly ordained Bishop. How many validly ordained priests and Bishops are denied clerical funerals but this man is given one?What are you mystified about? This sounds like a miracle in the making. I pray that Pope Francis can bring these people home. If so, this protestant bishop just might become a saint.
This protestant bishop wanted to become Catholic but stayed protestant to be bring protestants home to Rome.
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chk301
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I read the article and it says, “At one point, when Palmer was tired of living on the frontier and wanted to become Catholic, Bergoglio advised him against conversion for the sake of the mission.”
Can this be true that a cardinal would discourage someone from the sacraments?
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saintjohnxxiii
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I have to really hope that the Globe like so many MSM is misconstruing the above part because why should anyone discourage a person seeking entry into the Catholic Church and give a reason like that.I read the article and it says, “At one point, when Palmer was tired of living on the frontier and wanted to become Catholic, Bergoglio advised him against conversion for the sake of the mission.”
Can this be true that a cardinal would discourage someone from the sacraments?
This is a perfect example of why I suggested that any Catholic news articles be only OP’d with a reputable CATHOLIC link and not the MSM.
Reminds me of when Scott Hahn made the decision to become a Catholic and the parish priest refused it under some BS ecumenical reasons.
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phil19034
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Yeah, but a clerical funeral isn’t a sacrament or even a sacramental. Priests and Bishops who are denied clerical funerals typically brought disgraced to their Order.No one is saying that he may not have been a good man or lived a saintly life. But that doesn’t make him a validly ordained Bishop. How many validly ordained priests and Bishops are denied clerical funerals but this man is given one?
A clerical funeral is an honorific. It sounds like this man very well may have become a an ordinary in a new Anglican Ordinate in South Africa. If granting this leader helps bring these Anglicans in South Africa into the Catholic Church, then I think it is fine.
Christ gave the Popes the ability to bind and loosen for a reason, and I think this is a one-off. If this man was/is truly close to bringing these people into the Church, then he deserves to be honored in some manner by the Church.
Finally, let’s give our Holy Father the benefit of the doubt, I’m sure he knows a lot more about this situation than we do.
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phil19034
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I have to imagine that it didn’t really go down the way the Globe wrote it. I’m sure a conversation took place. I would bet that they spoke about “pros and cons” and maybe that’s where the “we need bridges” comment came from.I have to really hope that the Globe like so many MSM is misconstruing the above part because why should anyone discourage a person seeking entry into the Catholic Church and give a reason like that.
I would venture to guess that the good Cardinal and future Holy Father ultimately didn’t tell him what to do. I image that Palmer made his own decision and that Pope Francis would have respected his decision either way.
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sw85
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You reeeeally can’t underestimate how seriously modern Catholics take “evangelism.”I read the article and it says, “At one point, when Palmer was tired of living on the frontier and wanted to become Catholic, Bergoglio advised him against conversion for the sake of the mission.”
Can this be true that a cardinal would discourage someone from the sacraments?
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RosslynV
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I’m sure the quote attributed to Pope Francis in the article was either taken out of context or false.
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mdgspencer
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I don’t believe the stories about permissions given. These stories were provided by one person, and the person who wrote this posting never verified these stories from other reputable sources, as should happen if the writer were a professional reporter.
What the writer said about the Pope is a bit vague, and I wonder, perhaps, if he just thought the Pope would have given permission from other things the Pope has said.
I have known and admired Protestants that are wonderful people, but that does not mean because of this that they are Catholics, nor Catholic bishops.
What the writer said about the Pope is a bit vague, and I wonder, perhaps, if he just thought the Pope would have given permission from other things the Pope has said.
I have known and admired Protestants that are wonderful people, but that does not mean because of this that they are Catholics, nor Catholic bishops.
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johnmann
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Correct me if I’m wrong but there’s no special funeral rite for bishops. Maybe he was buried in a Catholic cemetery in a bishop’s plot or with some other special distinction according to local tradition, not in violation of any universal law.
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ringil
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I don’t know.
But he wasn’t a Bishop though. . . .
It’s not my call though.
But he wasn’t a Bishop though. . . .
It’s not my call though.
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Tobias2
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Hard to say what the real context was.I’m sure the quote attributed to Pope Francis in the article was either taken out of context or false.
In the 08/10 - 08/23 issue of The Register (meeting of Separated Brethren) it says that:
"During a meeting in June evangelical pastor Brian Stiller caused a stir when, according to his memory of the conversation, the Pope told him “he was not interested in converting evangelical Catholocism” and that he wished that people “find Jesus in their own community.” The Register went on to say that the remarks have not been verified but that the Vatican has not denied them.
Listening to CA and Tim Staples it clear one can be saved without being a formal member of the Catholic church but that its easier if one is a member to be saved because of access to the sacraments.
I don’t know how to take the Pope’s comments if the Register report is correct.
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phil19034
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This might actually mean that the Pope may hope to bring some evangelicals into Communion with the Catholic Church as their own sui iuris Church, rather than trying to bring them back to the Roman Rite…?Hard to say what the real context was.
In the 08/10 - 08/23 issue of The Register (meeting of Separated Brethren) it says that:
"During a meeting in June evangelical pastor Brian Stiller caused a stir when, according to his memory of the conversation, the Pope told him “he was not interested in converting evangelical Catholocism” and that he wished that people “find Jesus in their own community.” The Register went on to say that the remarks have not been verified but that the Vatican has not denied them.
Listening to CA and Tim Staples it clear one can be saved without being a formal member of the Catholic church but that its easier if one is a member to be saved because of access to the sacraments.
I don’t know how to take the Pope’s comments if the Register report is correct.
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Yause
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There’s no indication of that. It’s just that Pope Francis stresses long-term mission over short term gain. You can push directly for immediate conversion and risk antagonizing a specific community (converting high profile individuals tends to do this; said individual becomes ostracized by his or her original group, plus the move provokes further anti-Catholic sentiment), or you can work slowly to convince the entire community of the truth of Catholicism. In Tony Palmer’s case, he stayed among his own people to help dispel long-held anti-Catholic myths.This might actually mean that the Pope may hope to bring some evangelicals into Communion with the Catholic Church as their own sui iuris Church, rather than trying to bring them back to the Roman Rite…?
I suppose the Pope’s line of thinking is that in the end, truth converts a non-Catholic. Stated another way, each person converts himself or herself to the truth (and in his heart, Palmer had already converted, even if it was technically incomplete for the sake of mission).
Bear in mind that his work was just starting. The Ordinariates generally consist of former Anglo-Catholics who already shared most of the same beliefs before formally entering the Church. Indeed, some leaders accepted papal primacy years or even decades ago, believing that their mission was to bring the English church back into Roman Catholicism.It sounds like this man very well may have become a an ordinary in a new Anglican Ordinate in South Africa. If granting this leader helps bring these Anglicans in South Africa into the Catholic Church
On the other hand, Tony Palmer was working among people who are traditionally anti-Catholic.
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anthony022071
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Don’t worry about this. Consider that the pope has said that we cannot find or love Jesus outside of the Church.Hard to say what the real context was.
In the 08/10 - 08/23 issue of The Register (meeting of Separated Brethren) it says that:
"During a meeting in June evangelical pastor Brian Stiller caused a stir when, according to his memory of the conversation, the Pope told him “he was not interested in converting evangelical Catholocism” and that he wished that people “find Jesus in their own community.” The Register went on to say that the remarks have not been verified but that the Vatican has not denied them.
Listening to CA and Tim Staples it clear one can be saved without being a formal member of the Catholic church but that its easier if one is a member to be saved because of access to the sacraments.
I don’t know how to take the Pope’s comments if the Register report is correct.
catholicnewsagency.com/news/jesus-not-found-outside-the-church-pope-preaches/
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RosslynV
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The Pope did not definitivy define this statement. He did state that “…the Church is one in diversity.” I believe that Pope Francis considers non-catholic Christians as part of the Church! All is needed is the unity found in the fellowship in loving Jesus. Doctrinal differences shouldn’t be a stumbling block.Don’t worry about this. Consider that the pope has said that we cannot find or love Jesus outside of the Church.
catholicnewsagency.com/news/jesus-not-found-outside-the-church-pope-preaches/
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