Catholic heresies?

  • Thread starter Thread starter hoosierdaddy
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
H

hoosierdaddy

Guest
Sorry, I couldn’t find the post where I was challenged to list some Catholic heresies. Since the challenge took a rather aggressive tone I thought I’d let someone else do the arguing. Here is a link. If anything on there is indeed a heresy, then I haven’t lost like I was told I would. If nothing on there is a heresy, I still haven’t lost because I learned something new and because no Catholic is going to admit if something is heretical anyways.

So here is the link. Some of you are smarter than I. I’d rather you prove these are not heresies rather than me trying to prove that some of them are since this is a Catholic board and you should defend your beliefs. 😃

jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/catholic_heresies-a_list.htm
 
Is there any in particular that you find more compelling than others?

I mean, I guess I don’t really see the “heresy of candles” since first I find it completely spurious (no offense if you think there is something heretical about using candles).

I would assume you would be more interested in things like the papacy, prayers for the dead or Marian doctrines?
 
I am pretty sure that is the boettner list, you will find several threads on it if you use the search feature. I am fairly sure it is just anti-Catholic propoganda.

However, if there is something in particular on the list you would like to discuss, I will be more than happy to talk to you about it.

A lone Raven
Yeah, I think you are right. If this is boettner’s list, there is a point by point refutation floating about in cyber space somewhere. I’ll look:) edit:I see you found a link already:)

God bless,
Maria
 
All of a sudden after 1600 years, where Catholicism was the standard for Christian worship, all these things instantly became heresies. Incredible! Perhaps the greatest heresy was the Reformation movement itself.

As many of the posters here can attest, I’m generally a stauch defender of non-catholic Christian denominations, and I usually get slammed for my efforts. However, this site annoys me. Why Christian denominations, mine included, constantly have to denounce and ridicule each other is beyond me. I don’t think God would approve.

:banghead:
 
This list has circulated around the internet fora for a long time. In fact, prior to the crash, there were some really heated threads about it that eventually got locked, but the entire thing was de-bunked anyway and then things spiraled out of control.

This is one I am not going to entertain. Its been done before and its not going to change much for the people who go for this kind of thing.
 
Aha! I found it. It was in the thread you thought it was in Corvidae:tiphat: I should have known Church Militant was the one to place a link to it:)

The Boettner list

Although I will say the above is more a refutation to the dates rather than specifics against why the beliefs are not heretical.
 
If nothing on there is a heresy, I still haven’t lost because I learned something new and because no Catholic is going to admit if something is heretical anyways.
If we’re all such a blind and dishonest pack of curs, then why ask us anything at all?:hmmm:
 
I apologize for being a heretic. Although I’m not a heretic, I just get the feeling one or two of you think I am. And Maria, you’re not one of them. 👍 I thought I’d go to a source from someone who knows more than I do. I could have taken the time to go through everything and see if it was accurate but that’d take a while.

Yes, I’m more concerned about papist “stuff”. lol I don’t see anything wrong with candles and would disagree with any Protestant who did. They would have no grounds under SS to label the use of candles as heresy.
 
…no Catholic is going to admit if something is heretical anyways.
I just wanted to address this point in all charity. You’re wrong about that. Catholics who know enough about their faith have no need to deny anything or gloss over anything. Every challenge has a reasonable, unbiased answer. If that weren’t the case, I never would have become a Catholic. Period! 🙂
So here is the link. Some of you are smarter than I. I’d rather you prove these are not heresies rather than me trying to prove that some of them are since this is a Catholic board and you should defend your beliefs. 😃
Again, blessings on you, this is quite the wrong way to approach apologetics. The one bringing the accusation/challenge is the one upon whom the onus lies to prove his case. If he cannot prove it, then he ought to own up to it and be silent. That’s how it ought to work, not vice versa.
 
Originally Posted by hoosierdaddy
If nothing on there is a heresy, I still haven’t lost because I learned something new and because no Catholic is going to admit if something is heretical anyways.

Fidelis>>If we’re all such a blind and dishonest pack of curs, then why ask us anything at all?

Did I say that? You WON’T admit if something is heretical because a) you aren’t allowed to and b) you wouldn’t want to admit a Protestant beat you. 👍

However, it was Mike that aggressively challenged me to name one “heresy” and then said I would lose the debate and I wouldn’t like it. I just answered the call.
 
Again, blessings on you, this is quite the wrong way to approach apologetics. The one bringing the accusation/challenge is the one upon whom the onus lies to prove his case. If he cannot prove it, then he ought to own up to it and be silent. That’s how it ought to work, not vice versa.

Hence I referred you to a site where someone more knowledgable than I am did the work. This is a Catholic apologetics board so you should be defending your beliefs.

I have nothing to own up to and be silent about as I’ve said plenty in regards to a couple of things which I strongly believe are heresies.
 
Originally Posted by hoosierdaddy
If nothing on there is a heresy, I still haven’t lost because I learned something new and because no Catholic is going to admit if something is heretical anyways.

Fidelis>>If we’re all such a blind and dishonest pack of curs, then why ask us anything at all?

Did I say that? You WON’T admit if something is heretical because a) you aren’t allowed to and b) you wouldn’t want to admit a Protestant beat you. 👍
Aren’t “allowed to?” By whom, the theology police? You don’t know much about Catholic dissenters and what happens to them, do you? In this day and age, I’ll tell you–nothing.

And no Catholic apologist worth his salt cares a fig about winning or losing agruments. We only care about what is true–and that’s all!
 
I would slow down there hoosier,

While it may be that some here will think you a heretic, you have just accused us of being heretics or at least practicing heresies. I wish that we could work together and discuss without such heated terms as heretic.

As far as the original post, perhaps the discussions on these forums should be less about winning and losing and more about learning something. Every time I see this list I learn something, mainly, about how others see my Church.

I am sorry if you think that I think of you as a heretic, I think of you as a brother in Christ, and seek only to show you the Truth (my belief not yours) because it would be selfish of me not to try to share it with you.

A lone Raven

ps- A heresy is a belief, and not a use of something right? So while infallibility or purgatory could be heresies, candles, and scapulars cannot correct? A thing cannot be a heresy, only a belief can? Or is that not correct, if it is, then we can cut the list in half at the very least.
 
I can admit if something is heretical.🙂
I am allowed to.:amen:
And I am not concerned about protestants feeling that they can knock down the Catholic faith with any amount of apologetics.:nope:
Sorry, Its not going to wash with me. You cant convince me we have a single heresy. You may try, but you will not be able to. So go ahead lets hear the heresy. :yawn:
 
Yes, I’m more concerned about papist “stuff”. lol I don’t see anything wrong with candles and would disagree with any Protestant who did. They would have no grounds under SS to label the use of candles as heresy.
Okay, let’s look at some of those claims. Although arguing for the papacy is not one of my “strong points” I’ll help get the discussion started:)

From here Brian’s original link
610 The Papacy is of pagan origin. The title of pope or universal bishop, was first given to the bishop of Rome by the wicked emperor Phocas

This he did to spite Bishop Ciriacus of Constantinople, who had justly excommunicated him for his having caused the assassination of his predecessor emperor Mauritius. Gregory 1, then bishop of Rome, refused the title, but his successor, Boniface III, first assumed title “pope.”

Jesus did not appoint Peter to the headship of the apostles and forbade any such notion. (Lk. 22:24-26; Eph. 1:22-23; Col. 1:18; I Cor. 3:11).

Note:-- Nor is there any mention in Scripture, nor in history, that Peter ever was in Rome, much less that he was pope there for 25 years; Clement, 3rd bishop of Rome, remarks that there is no real 1st century evidence that Peter ever was in Rome."

From Church Militant’s (originally:) ) link

Boettner apparently wishes to give the impression that the office of Pope was invented by the Byzantine Emperor Phocas in 607, and conferred upon Boniface. The actual facts are not so simplistic.

To begin with, the title of the Bishop of Rome—Pontifex Maximus—is a term meaning “bridge-builder”, which the Popes inherited from governmental functionaries of the pagan Romans. “Pope” is merely a derivation of a Latin word meaning “father”; and use of that term for various clerics is also found in both the Orthodox and Coptic churches.

Tertullian, writing in his treatise Modesty (written in 220 AD), cites a quote from “a pontiff—sovereign, of course—that is, a bishop of bishops” [21]. This places use and understanding of the term 387 years before Boettner’s claim. Two other instances of the term in the definition of a patriarch are found applied to the Bishop of Carthage in 250 AD [22], and to the Bishop of Alexandria in 320 AD [23]. However, the Bishop of Rome was always held to be Head of the entire Church, (as attested to by Ignatius, Hermas, Dionysius, Hegesippus, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Cyprian, and others).

Shortly before Boniface III was elected, a dispute had arisen about the way that Cyriacus, the Patriarch of Constantinople, was using the term “ecumenical patriarch”; the manner in which Cyriacus was employing the title seemed to minimize the proper office of the Pope as universal head of the Church.

Once Boniface had been elected Pope, Emperor Phocas issued a decree—aimed directly at Cyriacus—which stipulated that the See of Rome was the head see of all the churches, and that the title “Universal Bishop” belonged only to the Bishop of Rome [24]. There was imperial precedent for this action, since Emperor Justinian (527-565 AD) had issued a similar acknowledgement some eighty years before [25].

The wrangling over jurisdiction between Rome and Constantinople would continue for another 400 years, and would eventually contribute to the final East-West schism in 1054 AD; but the examples provided here more than dispose of Boettner’s claim that the title of Pope was “invented” by the Byzantine Emperor in 607 AD.

[21] Jurgens, Vol. 1, pg 159.

[22] ibid., pg 227.

[23] ibid., pg 277.

[24] Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 2; “Boniface III”. pg 600.

J.N.D. Kelly, The Oxford Dictionary of Popes. Oxford, UK: Oxford University Press, pg 68.

[25] ibid.
 
Again, blessings on you, this is quite the wrong way to approach apologetics. The one bringing the accusation/challenge is the one upon whom the onus lies to prove his case. If he cannot prove it, then he ought to own up to it and be silent. That’s how it ought to work, not vice versa.

Hence I referred you to a site where someone more knowledgable than I am did the work. This is a Catholic apologetics board so you should be defending your beliefs.
More knowledgeable? If only you knew how funny that statement is! Boettner knew NOTHING about Catholic teachings. His old chestnuts have been refuted over and over again ad nauseum! Thanks for the laugh! 😃
I have nothing to own up to and be silent about as I’ve said plenty in regards to a couple of things which I strongly believe are heresies.
I was not referring to you, dear friend, but to those like Boettner who put out this sort of nonsense and NEVER cared to understand what the Church does and why nor what the Church teaches. What I’m saying is that people like him should have to prove their accusations. That’s only reasonable.

And I’d like to know how the Church that Christ founded could possibly have any heresies in it? Did or didn’t Jesus promise to lead his Church into all truth by the guidance of the Holy Spirit? If he did, which he did, then it is impossible that his Church should be heretical. Indeed, the Church has fought heresies all down the centuries, with many of its members paying with their blood to defend many of the doctrines you take for granted. Just so you know.
 
I can admit if something is heretical.🙂
I am allowed to.:amen:
And I am not concerned about protestants feeling that they can knock down the Catholic faith with any amount of apologetics.:nope:
Sorry, Its not going to wash with me. You cant convince me we have a single heresy. You may try, but you will not be able to. So go ahead lets hear the heresy. :yawn:
Wow. I truly did not expect this kind of disrespect from you.

P.S. You’re not allowed to say some doctrine in the Catholic Church is heretical. You just aren’t. You Catholics yourself admitted that you can’t. You don’t have the authority to.

Here’s a heresy for ya. Purgatory. That is a gross affront to Jesus Christ and His death. In fact, its another gospel. Read Galatians. I’d yawn right back at you but I’m too angry to. Do me a favour and don’t waste your time responding. Because I won’t answer.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top