Catholic heresies?

[francesco920]

It is funny that Protestants accuse Catholics of being heretics when the the two big ideas of the Reformation (sola fide, sola scriptura) are contradicted by the Bible, not to mention Tradition.

In addition, one Protestant denomination often views another as heretical, and I don’t know of any Protestant consensus on Catholic “heresies”…

As for Boettner and other anti-Catholics, I’m not sure there is much more to be said about them than what already has been said. Their words are incredibly ignorant and bigoted, and what they need to do is to read up on their history and to read the Bible a little more closely. Most of all, they need our prayers, and I pray that one day all of the anti-Catholics will become the most ardent defenders of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

One more thing: it is very that quite a bit of Protestant doctrines are based on hatred of Catholic beliefs. As a Catholic, I am to say that none of the Catholic doctrines are based on a hatred of the beliefs of my separated Christian brothers and sisters, but rather entirely on the teachings of Jesus Christ as preserved through the Written and Oral Traditions and upheld by the Magisterium of the Holy Catholic Church.

 

[ricmat]

Hoosierdaddy - I hope you stick around!

I never saw anybody that could multi-task on multi-threads so well. Where do you get the energy?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

As I understand it it is an old blessing of Church bells by dipping them in Holy Water.

It would look like baptising them, dipping them in water or pouring water over them while saying a blessing and so the name stuck.

I could be wrong though.

A lone Raven

ps- Hoosier, you are always wanted here, we are just trying to speak the truth as well.

Hi and to Lily,

So what is the blessing suppose to do?? I dont understand how blessing bells does anything at all. Is it still done today or is it an old custom that is no longer done?

Thanks

 

[MariaG]

Hi all,
Here is a link to a new thread to specifically address the concerns of the Papacy as spoken about in Boettner’s list posted in the Original post.

Split: Boettner’s claims about the Papacy

Let’s all try to be cordial and answer some questions that are very serious to a person whose only knowledge about the Catholic Church comes from places like that.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[estesbob]

Hi and to Lily,

So what is the blessing suppose to do?? I dont understand how blessing bells does anything at all. Is it still done today or is it an old custom that is no longer done?

Thanks

It would be akin to “consecrating” or “dedicationg” them to the Lord. No big deal and no i dont think it is done much anymore. We do have blessings of other items, For instance my Rosary was blessed at Auschwitz at the place where St. Edith Stein(patroness of our parish) was martyred

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Just to be clear, the Church distinguishes between formal heretics (Catholics who actually dissent from dogmatic, doctrinal Church teaching in such a way that they are excommunicated or depart the Church on their own, in which case they’d also be schismatic) and material heretics (those born into communities who at some point seperated themselves from the Church, but whose descendents were born into those schismatic Churches or ecclessial communities). The former can indeed be charged with the “sin of seperation,” the latter cannot.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

It would be akin to “consecrating” or “dedicationg” them to the Lord. No big deal and no i dont think it is done much anymore. We do have blessings of other items, For instance my Rosary was blessed at Auschwitz at the place where St. Edith Stein(patroness of our parish) was martyred

Hi,

Thank you. Im just trying to wrap my mind around how this was started and why the CC or someone in it thought inanimate objects needed to be blessed. Im not trying to be obnoxious–I just dont get it is all It just seems a little silly. I just dont think Jesus cares about inanimate objects.I think He has to much on His plate dealing with us human sinners Of course Im not Him so what do I know

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Hi,

Thank you. Im just trying to wrap my mind around how this was started and why the CC or someone in it thought inanimate objects needed to be blessed. Im not trying to be obnoxious–I just dont get it is all It just seems a little silly. I just dont think Jesus cares about inanimate objects.I think He has to much on His plate dealing with us human sinners Of course Im not Him so what do I know

Things were blessed and consecrated prior to the Christian era (ie, the Temple, the altars and utensils used in Jewish worship, etc.). What’s wrong with it? It’s a part of our heritage, invoking God’s blessing.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Things were blessed and consecrated prior to the Christian era (ie, the Temple, the altars and utensils used in Jewish worship, etc.). What’s wrong with it? It’s a part of our heritage, invoking God’s blessing.

Hi,

Im not sure there is anything wrong with it. I just dont think it is necessary. But I guess if people want to do it then so be it. As long as it is not considered a requirement of sorts I dont have a problem with it.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

More disrespect. Nothing happens to Catholic dissenters…today…in this country. You don’t know much about Ireland do you?
quote]

I know about present day Ireland. What would you liike to know?

for the record present day dissenters in Ireland don’t live in this country.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

Oh of course it’s fought heresies at the same time ignoring its own! How many Protestants paid for their defence of the truth with THEIR blood? Huh? I take no doctrine for granted. My Saviour died for me so that I could have eternal life. Your teaching against this is rank heresy! My Protestant brethren died so that I could read the Bible in my own language! Just so you know…and you did say you like to know the truth. You’ve been told it. Do with it what you will. End of discussion.

How many Catholics paid for the defense of Truth as taught by Christ with their blood at the hands of protestants? HUH? Many, many times more I can assure you.

The bible is available to you to read as you wish because it was formed out of the Catholic Church. More Catholic saints died so you could read it that you could ever imagine.

A simple thank you will do.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Also found this on a non catholic site:

The Boettner list

The forty-five “heresies and inventions” that Loraine Boettner lists at the beginning of Roman Catholicism did, indeed, develop over the course of Church history; but as we have seen, none of them are “heretical”; and neither were they “invented” at some point in time—and Boettner is a dismal failure at pinning down the correct dates of the development of these doctrines. As I stated at the beginning, I will leave it up to the individual reader to decide for themselves whether a man who is so grossly erroneous in the fixing of simple historical dates (leaving aside all of his other errors) can be trusted to to be correct in instructing his readers whether a Catholic doctrine is a heresy, and invention, or not.

Perhaps Karl Keating put it best in his assessment of Boettner’s magnum opus: “No effort is made to give sources for his charges, and little effort is made to say what the significance of the ‘inventions’ might be. That task is left to innuendo. What Boettner implies is that any belief or practice not found in the pages of the New Testamant in plain words must be spurious and must have been instituted for some nefarious purpose” [93].

I believe that Boettner himself had a “nefarious purpose” in creating the infamous “list” on pages 7, 8, and 9 of his book: to discredit, malign, and denegrate the Catholic Church, at all costs—even if he had to prefabricate the charges against her. The sad thing is that so many good and sincere Christians, Protestant and Catholic alike, have been taken in by his falshoods. With God’s kindness and grace, perhaps those who read this paper of mine will be helped to see that the only “inventions” to be found in Boettner’s book are the ones he concocted and wrote down himself.

 

[gardenswithkids]

…I woke up this morning and prayed to God that I would seek the truth, I would share the truth I know, and that I would not be concerned about winning or losing arguments. …

Very glad to read that! Thank you for sharing what you believe to be the truth about Jesus Christ. But posting a long list of what other people say is wrong with the Cathololic Church is very difficult for us to address. For example, your list says that a pope condemned public schools in the 1930’s, but offers no other information about his specific statement or offers us a chance to see it in context. I homeschool my children, and I know lots of fundamentalist Christians who dislike public schools. A couple of Baptist conventions here in the US periodically bring up their concerns about public school too–maybe some Baptists even agree with whatever it was that the pope said! Wouldn’t that be weird.

…I’m just extremely angry at the way some of these people have been talking, especially since I was challenged to start this thread. I think I should leave.

I hope you don’t leave, and I hope you’ll be careful about taking up challenges thrown out by argumentative people. Not everyone here wishes to argue with you. As you wish to share with us the truth you know, (and I do believe that Protestants know some truth), we also like to share what we believe to be the truth.

And I want to remind all the Catholics here that we are suppose to speak the truth* in love*. (Ephesians 4:15)

 

[mikeledes]

How many Catholics paid for the defense of Truth as taught by Christ with their blood at the hands of protestants? HUH? Many, many times more I can assure you.

The bible is available to you to read as you wish because it was formed out of the Catholic Church. More Catholic saints died so you could read it that you could ever imagine.

A simple thank you will do.

Thank you for pointing that out.

God Bless,
michael

 

[E.E.N.S]

How many Catholics paid for the defense of Truth as taught by Christ with their blood at the hands of protestants? HUH? Many, many times more I can assure you.

The bible is available to you to read as you wish because it was formed out of the Catholic Church. More Catholic saints died so you could read it that you could ever imagine.

A simple thank you will do.

Amen!

Also, 2 Peter 3:16 comes to mind:

“As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.”

 

[mikeledes]

And I want to remind all the Catholics here that we are suppose to speak the truth* in love*. (Ephesians 4:15)

Amen to that! This should apply to Catholics and Protestants. We should all refrain from obnoxious comments and charitably address a person’s post.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[Fidelis]

Originally Posted by hoosierdaddy
If nothing on there is a heresy, I still haven’t lost because I learned something new and because no Catholic is going to admit if something is heretical anyways.

Fidelis>>If we’re all such a blind and dishonest pack of curs, then why ask us anything at all?

Did I say that? You WON’T admit if something is heretical because a) you aren’t allowed to and b) you wouldn’t want to admit a Protestant beat you.

that’s just a nastier way of saying the same thing!

Tell you what…when you can give Catholics credit for being non-brainwashed, intelligent human beings with free will, come back and talk. Other than that, save it for the JW’s.

 

[El_Paulo]

How many Catholics paid for the defense of Truth as taught by Christ with their blood at the hands of protestants? HUH? Many, many times more I can assure you.

The bible is available to you to read as you wish because it was formed out of the Catholic Church. More Catholic saints died so you could read it that you could ever imagine.

A simple thank you will do.

It’s not a competition. Bad form!

 

[estesbob]

Hi,

Thank you. Im just trying to wrap my mind around how this was started and why the CC or someone in it thought inanimate objects needed to be blessed. Im not trying to be obnoxious–I just dont get it is all It just seems a little silly. I just dont think Jesus cares about inanimate objects.I think He has to much on His plate dealing with us human sinners Of course Im not Him so what do I know

Blessing (“consecrating”) inantimate objects is common is Scripture. It has been common in the Church since the beginning, an exmample being the consecarting of the altars used by Early Chrisians in the catacombs beneath Rome. I note that much reverance is paid by even Protestants to an inantimate object known as “The Cross”

 

[Mintaka]

Re: blessings

Traditionally, Christians have blessed pretty much everything they are going to eat, drink, live in, or otherwise use. Jewish devotional life is also pretty big on praying over and blessing stuff, so we probably got it from them. This is all part of acknowledging that God gave us everything and created everything. Most folks still say grace, and goodbye is “God be with you”. But there used to be a lot more of this.

The early Christians boasted that they constantly made the Sign of the Cross over themselves and everything they were doing, reminding themselves over and over of their baptism’s seal and the means of their salvation.

Later, the common greeting for Irish people after the coming of Christianity was “Dia dhuit”, God bless you; and the common way to come up to somebody’s house was a similar blessing on everyone in the house. They took it very seriously. In early medieval Irish law, you could get fined if you came walking along, saw somebody working on something, and didn’t say, “God bless you”!

Not to bless things and people constantly… that was considered heathen and creepy, not to mention ungrateful to God. And to be honest, I think they had a point back in the day.

So yeah, if you’re going to bless the seed, the sowers, the crops in the field, the rain, the sun, the reapers, the harvest, the bread and beer you make from the harvest, the barn, the animals that eat the feed, and everything else – as well as saying grace before and after meals – it’s not surprising that you’d bless the church bells before you hung 'em up to serve God for the next few hundred years.

Btw, if you want to find out interesting stuff about church bells (in England, anyway), Dorothy L. Sayers’ mystery novel The Nine Tailors is a great book. It’s part of a series, but pretty much standalone; it follows a small town Anglican parish through a whole year, and the local bellringers are important to the plot.