Catholic High School with Disturbing Reading Lists

[PRmerger]

And of the two I don’t know that a description such as Morrison’s mightn’t be preferable. Sure, it’s graphic and it depicts the warped mentality behind child abuse, but in no way does it glorify it or make it seem attractive, and would certainly get anyone who read it thinking about the issue of child abuse.

But what literary value is there in this book? What will the teacher be promoting to these girls?

 

[leonie]

Pornography is defined for example in the Merriam-Webster online dictionary as:

1 : the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) ***intended to cause sexual excitement ***
2 : material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior ***and is intended to cause sexual excitement ***3 : the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction

Being that, I’m certain, Toni Morrison was NOT intending to cause sexual excitement in her readers with that passage (almost certainly quite the opposite), it’s a borderline case at best. Not that I’m suggesting that it isn’t every bit as problematic, and possibly undesirable, as something that was frankly pornographic would be.

I disagree. She is depicting a perverted, sexual act in a detail manner. Whatever her intent, it is a sensational description. And, I do think a confused teen might become sexually confused about this passage.

It is possible to discuss the horrors of rape, child abuse and incest without describing it in this sensational manner.

I do believe an adult with a well formed intelligence could handle this (though, I don’t know why he would want to), but in no way should a minor be exposed to this.

Why do we have to burden our kids with having to fight these mental images and graphic descriptions. Would our Blessed Mother desire Jesus to read this? no way.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

Books are treasures, people. No matter what genre; no matter where you are or what school you attend. sigh Ah, books; a gateway to imagination and critical thinking.

Pro-feminist, huh? Be happy it wasn’t “The Feminist Mystique” by Betty Friedan.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

 

[LilyM]

But what literary value is there in this book? What will the teacher be promoting to these girls?

Plenty of books are worth studying that purely from a literary perspective don’t necessarily rate highly. Literature has value for its place in and effect on society as well as any merit that it may inherently have as an artform. Toni Morrison being a writer of no little repute, it may well be that other parts of the book have more overt artistic merit, not every sentence or paragraph of any book will be deathless prose. And literature can and should be studied from the point of view of social impact and social issues that it raises as well as as literature per se.

My sisters studied an excellent tv show and its script as part of their literature studies - it was about police corruption. Was it deathless literary art in and of itself? Not really.

Was it worth studying because it made them think about the important issue of police corruption - how and where and why it occurs, what if anything can be done about it and so on? And because that particular tv show had a huge impact on the way the public here viewed the issue and, in part, prompted a government inquiry and sweeping action against corrupt police? Absolutely.

What on earth do you EXPECT the teacher to be promoting with such a passage? That child abuse is fine and dandy and we should all be indulging in it as often as possible? Certainly the idea that it’s not a good thing would be brought well to the forefront.

The teacher can point out that it happens way too often, that it devastates children and families, that people who do it often have abnormal mental processes - and can and must get psychiatric treatment as well as any other legal punishment that may be meted out to them. Things like that. Maybe Morrison writes about the effects herself, I don’t know.

 

[sanctamaria17]

She does include the effects of child abuse, as well as the effects of growing up African American in an overtly and covertly racist environment. It is a powerful and compelling, though graphic, read. She does the same with slavery in her novel Beloved. She conveys the most gruesome acts and horrifying madness that results very beautifully.

I don’t think it would be an anti-man discussion. I can see a lot of good coming out of it. There could be discussions about how these acts and such (incest, rape, racism) go against the dignity of mankind and how God created us. How they not only victimize women but destroy men and reduce masculinity to a power struggle.

Her writing is raw and shows child abuse not only through the sufferings of this girl, but through the sick, perverted mind of the abuser, the girl’s father. It shows that it really is sicker than any of us could imagine. This is a girl’s father, one who’s supposed to love and protect from things like this. And he’s committing this!

How she conveys this through an art form is certainly worthy of discussion and it is not pornography.

 

[PRmerger]

What on earth do you EXPECT the teacher to be promoting with such a passage? That child abuse is fine and dandy and we should all be indulging in it as often as possible? Certainly the idea that it’s not a good thing would be brought well to the forefront.

That’s exactly my point! I don’t know WHY a teacher would want students to read something like that? T

hat young teens are exposed to this everywhere–in their magazines, movies, etc–is certainly not a reason for them to be exposed to it in their schools as well!

(And, not everyone is exposed to this kind of depravity. I know that my daughter has never ever read Cosmo its ilk)

 

[LilyM]

That’s exactly my point! I don’t know WHY a teacher would want students to read something like that? T

hat young teens are exposed to this everywhere–in their magazines, movies, etc–is certainly not a reason for them to be exposed to it in their schools as well!

(And, not everyone is exposed to this kind of depravity. I know that my daughter has never ever read Cosmo its ilk)

That young teens are exposed to it everywhere - usually with a secular ‘isn’t this just great’ spin on it - makes it CRITICAL that such issues are discussed openly in school and at home and from a specifically Catholic perspective, otherwise you’re just leaving her to rely on unknown and unknowable other people to give her information and form her opinions.

In other words you’re leaving her at the mercy of the magazine publishers, tv producers and who knows who else she reads, sees or listens to.

Of course you know she’s never read Cosmo or the like - and I’m sure my parents ‘knew’ that I never read anything of the sort as well. I’m not saying this to try to scare you, but because it’s the truth. As long as she isn’t in your sight 24 hours a day, you DON’T really know what she’s reading or what she’s exposed to - either willingly or inadvertently. You don’t know that she didn’t already read the book at the age of 15 like one of the posters here.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

That’s exactly my point! I don’t know WHY a teacher would want students to read something like that?

**
I am not defending the book…

I know you mentioned that you had attempted to discuss this with school admin.

Have you spoken with the teacher directly? If you approach her seriously asking her your above question (i.e without hostility or outrage) maybe you will get an answer that makes sense. Then maybe you can present your point of view and possibly be heard.

I would be really curious to know “WHY” this book before I did anything else. Not that I would want my minor daughter reading such graphic depictions…but I wouldn’t be able to make a decision (fully) without answering that very basic question of WHY.**

 

[Ruthie]

I didn’t like Toni Morrison’s description of child rape/incest at all. It made me want to throw up.

Compare it to the depiction of the same in the Color Purple. Alice Walker describes it from the child’s point of view, without any euphemisms or anatomically correct words. The closest she gets is “his thing.”) It shows it for what it is - an incomprehensible betrayal, painful, and violent.

I do not want to hear, nor do I want anyone else to hear, love and tenderness in the context of this despicable act. There is NO EXCUSE for it.

The Color Purple has other problems, such as its glorification of bisexuality, but on the whole it is about the redeeming quality of love. I haven’t read the Bluest Eye, and now I never will.

No, I have no charity for child rapists, no matter how “loving” their motives.

God, make them repent, and I hope it hurts.

Ruthie

 

[Cat]

I’m 51 and I raised two daughters.

Several times I have tried to read Toni Morrison because she is a Pulitzer-Prize winning African American author and I feel that I should have some understanding and familiarity with her work and appreciation for her point of view about life.

And every time, I give up by the second or third chapter because the books are so darned boooooorrring! My apologies to those who admire Morrison’s work, but seriously, I could use her books for anesthesia for heart surgery–they’re so dull! And they don’t make any sense at all to me–it’s like reading words with no connection. Almost like reading in a foreign language–I feel that I need a “translator.”

Someone told me it’s a “black thing.” I’m white, and I just don’t appreciate what she is writing about. Well, that’s probably true. And maybe this is a good reason for high school students to read Morrison’s novels–to understand how black people think, feel, talk, and act.

Perhaps–just a thought–perhaps to white women like me, the sex act described is pornography. But perhaps among African Americans, something like this has a meaning that white women just don’t get, and Ms. Morrison is trying to help us all gain understanding of what it means to be black in the U.S.

I wish that I had a teacher who could explain the “black thing” to me and help me to see just why this author has won a Pulitzer Prize, because I truly don’t get it at all. I wish I did.

Anyway, here’s my advice. I think that the bigger fuss you make about it, the more your daughter will want to read it and she’ll dig in her heels and read it behind your back.

But if you are laid back about the whole thing, she’ll lose interest in a hurry and read it only because it’s required reading. In fact, maybe she will find Morrison’s novels as boring as I as do.

As for the sex stuff–that’s not porn. Believe me, it’s not porn. It’s a graphic description of an illicit sex act. Again, the bigger fuss you make about it, the more your daughter will find it appealing. People are funny that way–when something is forbidden, it becomes fascinating and they desire it. Every been on a diet? Even creamed beets sound great when you’re on a diet. But give someone permission to eat something, and they lose interest. Same thing with graphic sex description in a novel–make it out to be “pornography” and kids will want to read it. But call it what it is–“a graphic description of an illicit sex act,” and kids will yawn.

 

[JimG]

Well, I guess it made the Oprah Book Club. Is that reason enough to read it? Here is the synopsis from Cliff Notes.

Doesn’t sound all that appealing to me.

 

[gardenswithkids]

…Someone told me it’s a “black thing.” I’m white, and I just don’t appreciate what she is writing about. Well, that’s probably true. And maybe this is a good reason for high school students to read Morrison’s novels–to understand how black people think, feel, talk, and act.

Perhaps–just a thought–perhaps to white women like me, the sex act described is pornography. But perhaps among African Americans, something like this has a meaning that white women just don’t get, and Ms. Morrison is trying to help us all gain understanding of what it means to be black in the U.S.

I wish that I had a teacher who could explain the “black thing” to me and help me to see just why this author has won a Pulitzer Prize, because I truly don’t get it at all. I wish I did…

I just wonder: if schools teach literature such as this to help white students understand more about the life experiences of people of color, what do novels about incest and rape teach about black men?

 

[LilyM]

I didn’t like Toni Morrison’s description of child rape/incest at all. It made me want to throw up.

Compare it to the depiction of the same in the Color Purple. Alice Walker describes it from the child’s point of view, without any euphemisms or anatomically correct words. The closest she gets is “his thing.”) It shows it for what it is - an incomprehensible betrayal, painful, and violent.

I do not want to hear, nor do I want anyone else to hear, love and tenderness in the context of this despicable act. There is NO EXCUSE for it.

The Color Purple has other problems, such as its glorification of bisexuality, but on the whole it is about the redeeming quality of love. I haven’t read the Bluest Eye, and now I never will.

No, I have no charity for child rapists, no matter how “loving” their motives.

God, make them repent, and I hope it hurts.

Ruthie

What makes you think Toni Morrison was trying to excuse anything? From the quoted passage I get absolutely no sense that she has any sympathy with the attacker, and no sense that she was excusing anything at all. To say that she was makes as little sense as saying that an actor who plays the part of a child abuser - and portrays that character as a real person, defined by the sum of all their traits and not just by one act evil though it might be, has ‘charity’ for abusers or is excusing the act of child abuse.

You’re surely not suggesting that a writer actually has ‘charity’ for every single one of their characters, are you? By that logic no-one should ever put a villainous character - a murderer or a thief - into a book, ever. And by that logic they must secretly condone murder or theft if they do portray them as - heaven forbid - confused and mad and sick, as most are in real life, and as this character certainly appears?

I’m sure Toni Morrison would say, and she is best qualified to talk about why she writes as she does, that it has nothing at all to do with ‘charity’, and everything to do with truthful storytelling - presenting a character’s mental state in a real (which is not in the slightest the same thing as sympathetic or ‘charitable’) way.

If I mention in writing about Hitler that he loved animals, loved Eva Braun and art and was, to the best of everyone’s knowledge, faithful to her, that isn’t condoning the evil acts he did, it’s simply portraying the multiple sides, good and sinful, that all of us have to our characters.

Like it or not there ARE two perspectives to every act of abuse - that of the attacker and that of the victim. You may not like or sympathise with the attacker’s point of view, that’s fine. But fact is writers and actors have every right as part of their job to portray that point of view, without being unfairly and automatically accused of wanting to excuse or glorify the behaviour.

 

[thomfra]

Ew! It was literature choices such as that in our local public highschool, (along with several other things,) that helped me decide to look for alternative educational options. I’m saddened to learn of this happening in Catholic schools. Well, I hope the classroom discussion would promote morality and Catholic values rather than “trumping” them. I wish high school literature focussed on the classics. Classics often include immoral behavior but show the negative consequence of immoral actions. Most of the classics authors had a world view consistent with Christian morality and that reflects in the stories.

Contemporary literature may or may not be written by authors with world views similar to Christianity. I would expect Catholic schools to select literature that promotes Catholic values, *not *literature that may undermine the faith and morality of the students. Any literature teacher should be able to recognize that well written stories can affect people and their behavior. If a literature teacher fails to understand the “power of the pen”, the teacher is hardly qualified to teach literature.

You probably know that the Bible contains a few stories with rape and incest–clearly portraying the acts as evil and providing no graphic details. If a teacher in a Catholic school wants to discuss literature about those sensitive issues, they could read the Bible. The Bible tells stories of sin and redemption, and any truly good literature worthy of a Catholic school should follow a similar plot. I would read the book in question with a yellow highlighter in hand. If I felt the story promoted values inconsistent with the Catholic Church, I would raise a huge fuss.

I can’t quite understand this. How on earth would a book be “promoting” rape?

By the way: The class is “literature”, not “catholic literature”.

 

[thomfra]

It’s graphic, I grant you - of course it’s only right to feel strongly about it, and absolutely it should be taken up with other parents and the school.

On the other hand I got subjected to Gloucester in King Lear having his eyeballs gouged out extremely graphically on stage. If memory serves, I’d been too slack to read that part of the play beforehand, so it was a real shock! not to mention Lavinia in Titus Andronicus being having her hands cut off and tongue cut out. blecch

And I can assure you, while most 16-17 year old girls aren’t reading graphic descriptions of child abuse on their own, plenty of them ARE reading, in some of the commonly-available teen magazines and other reputable publications like Cosmopolitan, graphic descriptions of how to give good blow jobs, erotic short stories and things like that.

God forgive me, I know I did, and I can’t imagine it’s less prevalent today. You’d rather they read about such things under parental and teacher supervision where the issues can be openly discussed, or behind your backs as most things are read?

And of the two I don’t know that a description such as Morrison’s mightn’t be preferable. Sure, it’s graphic and it depicts the warped mentality behind child abuse, but in no way does it glorify it or make it seem attractive, and would certainly get anyone who read it thinking about the issue of child abuse.

A very good Post LilyM. I agree totally!!!

 

[babesinarms]

Whatever happened to the classics? What gets past as ‘literature’ these days is appalling! Children are toooo exposed to just plain smut these days - via mags, internet, T.V. etc.

I know that you are arguing this particular description, LilyM, from a victims perspective, all well and good if you really need to know the details. I can only wonder how some children would perceive this if they were already experiencing difficulty in their relationships with their father, I know that would be a huge turn-off. I am in no way discrediting this girls experience of incest, but if it is to reach teenage girls, there are, in my mind, a number of other ways in writing about this experience that could still engage fruitful dialogue about such a serious event.

Sheesh, I was teaching 13 yr old girls once and the topic was around pets of theirs. One girl left the room crying? I looked at the other girls and they mentioned her pet had died just recently. I spoke with her outside and she confided in me that our parish priest had been molesting her for some years but her father only punished her for telling him this! (Turns out her father had been abusing her too!) Point in question? We didn’t need a book depicting graphics of this nature to bring up such an important issue, I couldn’t begin to imagine how humiliated she would have felt, knowing that her classmates knew all along! It was something as simple as the love of pets and the discussion around this that led her to telling me.

That’s why I don’t send my kids to Catholic schools after having taught in them myself - there is just too much bending to what is ‘popular’, regardless of whether it has it’s value in literacy or not. My children attend an alternative, private high school where the principal greatly encourages the old classics (he’s a Rhodes Scholar), he bends over backwards to support independent thinking, and best of all, he has a zero tolerance on bullying. I love helping them with their assignments, they are always so creative and thought provoking. We have many discussions around the table about these topics, but I could never imagine discussing the intimate details of her abuse like this, which I would imagine is probably integral to the structure of the story. I think my son would throw it down in horror and refuse to write about it - I couldn’t imagine them ever having to think about such things like this, in it’s graphic description, let alone, discuss or write about it in class! I wonder how a male high school teacher would discuss this with a room full of girls? Somehow, I just don’t think so!!:bigyikes:

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

If your daughter doesn’t read that book, she will be left out, because most colleges would expect her to be familiar with Morrison. I would recommend reading the book with your daughter. That way you can teach her Christian values, and have her come up with a Catholic response to the situations dealt with in the book.

It also might give you some more quality time with your daughter, especially during the troubling teen years, where she can have time to discuss more intimate and pressing details of her own life.

I disagree. Toni Morrison is not considered a Great Books author. If a university promotes Toni Morrison, then there is a serious flaw in its literature curriculum, and those attending should seriously consider other post-secondary education.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

:ehh: BA in eng. lit. here, magna cum laude '02… never read Morrison, and was never expected to be *familiar *with her work.

Me too, BA Literature in English! Never expected to read Morrison.

Now Spencer, Cather, Welty, Faulkner, O’Connor, even Kafka- but not Morrison.

And is Oprah the standard we want for our Catholic young adults? It would be better to read A Lesson Before Dying, also on the Oprah Book Club, than *The Bluest Eyes.

*OP, maybe it’s time to take this to the bishop or the superior of the religious order in charge of the school. It might also be time to bring it to media attention, say the local diocese paper, Ave Maria Radio, Relavent Radio, National Catholic Register, Envoy, EWTN.

 

[bobrsue]

See this link below for more graphic and troubling content. In this Catholic discussion, I would particulary point to the 2nd/3rd paragraphs on that website that deal with a child molestor character that Morrison named “Soaphead Church”. The excerpts in the website are from his letter to God. It’s a really nasty diatribe by the author against males (once again) and against the Church at the same time. After all, if we allowed homosexuality, he would not have had to resort to molesting little girls.

classkc.org/review.php?book=Bluest_Eye

As to whether it is porn or not, I would consider it a very close cousin. Call it anti-porn or something. It’s believe it is intentionally sexual and nasty, rather than sexual and alluring, to combine the inherent depth of feeling that comes with strong sexual content, but also repulsive, so as to once again convincingly and deeply depict males as sexual-deviants. Not being a Morrison expert but googling a bit, it seems this is a theme with her. Apparently she can get away with it being story-telling. But is it any crazier than if a boy’s school dumped a pile of Playboy magazines out for the boys and said “we’re going to study unhealthy female images in society today”? Sure the kids would love it, as some girls now claim to enjoy The Bluest Eye. But is that how we meaure the educational value of a book?

 

[JimG]

See this link below for more graphic and troubling content.
classkc.org/review.php?book=Bluest_Eye

After reading just the first paragraph, I can’t imagine why anybody would be giving this book as a reading assignment to teenagers, particularly younger teenagers. This was the 34th most challenged book of the 1990’s (which tops Morrison’s other infamous books, Song of Solomon and Beloved which are also used as required reading assignments in the Blue Valley school system). The Bluest Eye contains incest, rape, pedophilia, graphic sex, extreme violence, sexual abuse, physical/emotional abuse, scatological references, sacrilegious references, animal abuse, and bestiality.