Catholic High School with Disturbing Reading Lists

[gardenswithkids]

I can’t quite understand this. How on earth would a book be “promoting” rape?

By the way: The class is “literature”, not “catholic literature”.

What don’t you understand?

Maybe you don’t understand that well written literature can affect society and shape public opinion. Authors present their worldviews through their writings. Books attempt to promote whatever values the authors wish to promote. Better writers do that very subtly, often using fiction. A well written story is a powerful tool that can shape young minds.

Maybe you don’t understand is that the institution is not just a “school” but a “Catholic school”. Catholic parents who pay tuition for a Catholic education usually expect that the Catholic school will shape our children’s young minds in ways consistent with a Catholic worldview. That doesn’t mean we expect our children will only read Catholic authors, but we expect that the literature selected will be consistent with the underlying moral principles of Catholicism.

 

[Ceil-1]

High school students are children in formation… They do not have the perspective of mature adults. They will be profoundly negatively afffected and warped by such material.

I remember what Flowers in the Attic did to me. It ruined my innocence. I was so depressed by the next book (My Sweet Audrina). I nearly became suicidal. Fortunately, I recognized what was happening and stopped reading it.

Stephen King’s the Beast Within sent me reeling, putting weird thoughts in my head. I read a novel ,in high school, from the library, about the Vietnam War. It was not only cynical, it was full of profanity. What was worst of all was the graphic description of a girl being gang raped that so affected me, it impacted negatively on my marriage. I could not get the images out of my mind. It took years to erase the negative, dysfunctional programming I went through as a teenager, and I was relatively sheltered.

Small wonder we have mental illness, suicide and complete dysfunction as mainstream these days.

This author sounds like the literary equivalent of affirmative action. Let’s elevate her in the ranks because she writes perversion in a flowery fashion? This is what passes for great literature?

Take charge of your daughter’s formation while you still can.

 

[jwashu]

That’s exactly my point! I don’t know WHY a teacher would want students to read something like that? T

hat young teens are exposed to this everywhere–in their magazines, movies, etc–is certainly not a reason for them to be exposed to it in their schools as well!

(And, not everyone is exposed to this kind of depravity. I know that my daughter has never ever read Cosmo its ilk)

I believe you identified the point yourself?

Teens are exposed to this stuff everywhere… usually it’s promotion though, not it’s ill effects.

Life is harsh and as you get older you deal with more and more people, some who will have had very difficult things happen to them. If, through the study of literature, you can gain some empathy for that person I believe that to be a good thing.

Joe

 

[whatevergirl]

Does this change your mind:

Here is an exerpt–be forewarned that the content is graphic and disturbing:

(describing a father’s thoughts regarding his 11 yr old daughter)

“The tenderness welled up in him, and he sank to his knees, his eyes on the foot of his daughter. Crawling on all fours toward her… The confused mixture of his memories of Pauline and the doing of a wild and forbidden thing excited him, and a bolt of desire ran down his genitals, giving it length, and softening the lips of his anus. Surrounding all of this lust was a border of politeness. He wanted to f___ her-tenderly. But the tenderness would not hold. The tightness of her vagina was more than he could bear…So when the child regained consciousness, she was lying on the kitchen floor under a heavy quilt, trying to connect the pain between her legs with the face of her mother looming over her.”

This is being read by 16-17 yr old girls.

I’m a pretty open minded person, but this book sounds way out there, and inappropriate…Doubtful anyone would really be missing much in life, having not read it.

Whatever happened to reading classics like Farewell to Arms? And John Steinbeck books? Those are books that will change lives, and stir the desire to write within the youth of today. I know that I wanted to be a writer, after reading those books!

The book in question here reminds me of Lolita…which was a bit disturbing…a recount of a stepfather having sex with his 12 yr old stepdaughter…and protraying her as a seductress. It was twisted, but was written well.

It surprises me that such a sexually descriptive novel would be prescribed for Catholic school students. I am not sure of what they hope to gain with this book, but perhaps rallying around some parents to see their thoughts, might help. Sometimes, petitions are good in these cases, if enough parents are protesting the book.

 

[sanctamaria17]

High school students are children in formation… They do not have the perspective of mature adults. They will be profoundly negatively afffected and warped by such material.

Take charge of your daughter’s formation while you still can.

16 and 17 means that these “children” (which they are only legally) are not that far away from being considered legal adults. That means then, they will be in either college, the military, the workforce, all the above, or w/e and they WILL be exposed to very harsh aspects of reality. They are starting to think for themselves and most likely have been confirmed already, not to mention that they are above the age of reason.

And, as someone who was the victim of sexual harassment, near victim of sexual assault,who struggles with seasonal depression, and who has seen family members suffer from severe mental illness, it’s highly simplistic to state that today’s lit is the cause of that. Perversion has always been in literature, including the classics. But the book was NOT MEANT to be about perversion. It’s about a girl who grows up African-American in a time of heavy, heavy racism, about how she suffers from the effects of being targeted because she is poor, black, and a girl. As a result, she is abused by the people who were supposed to take care of and protect her.

Yes, what happens to this girl is perverted and disturbing but IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE!!! IT’S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE NORMAL!!!

As an art form, art is usually meant to evoke emotion. I guess Morrison did her job effectively because I’m catching a lot of emotion on this board.

And while I am a fan of the classics, I believe contemporary lit has its place as well, its own form of literary value, and should be studied. Yes, there are a lot of heavy themes. But I think a 16 or 17 year old is mature enough to handle it. Heck, I was reading heavier stuff than this at 13 and I’m not mentally disturbed. In fact, it’s made me empathetic, stronger in my beliefs, and more dedicated to fighting against things like abortion and sexual assault.

Books are only dangerous as you make them out to be. This would be a wonderful opportunity to have dialogue and discussion. It would be sad to see an opportunity wasted. But, to the OP, you’re the parent. Do what you think is right.

 

[whatevergirl]

I believe you identified the point yourself?

Teens are exposed to this stuff everywhere… usually it’s promotion though, not it’s ill effects.

Life is harsh and as you get older you deal with more and more people, some who will have had very difficult things happen to them. If, through the study of literature, you can gain some empathy for that person I believe that to be a good thing.

Joe

While I agree, the excerpt that was just posted, (that I replied to above) portrays rape as a satisfying sexual experience for a male. It’s not. Rape is about power…not sex. A young mind reading this book, might not grasp that fact, reading something like this that seems to glamourize this horror against another.

There are so many books out there to be read…that are fabulously written…are edifying to one’s faith and soul…and are life changers. If I were paying tuition to send my child to a Catholic school, I’d be pretty upset if this, out of all the books on the planet, was the one that the administration collectively agreed would be edifying for teenage girls to be reading.

I’m at a loss as to how a book like this helps a student grow in her faith as a Catholic. Isn’t that the main reason a parent sends his/her child(ren) to Catholic school?

 

[leonie]

High school students are children in formation… They do not have the perspective of mature adults. They will be profoundly negatively afffected and warped by such material.

I remember what Flowers in the Attic did to me. It ruined my innocence. I was so depressed by the next book (My Sweet Audrina). I nearly became suicidal. Fortunately, I recognized what was happening and stopped reading it.

Stephen King’s the Beast Within sent me reeling, putting weird thoughts in my head. I read a novel ,in high school, from the library, about the Vietnam War. It was not only cynical, it was full of profanity. What was worst of all was the graphic description of a girl being gang raped that so affected me, it impacted negatively on my marriage. I could not get the images out of my mind. It took years to erase the negative, dysfunctional programming I went through as a teenager, and I was relatively sheltered.

Small wonder we have mental illness, suicide and complete dysfunction as mainstream these days.

This author sounds like the literary equivalent of affirmative action. Let’s elevate her in the ranks because she writes perversion in a flowery fashion? This is what passes for great literature?

Take charge of your daughter’s formation while you still can.

great post.

I made the same connect to the Flowers in the Attic book. This is the age when kids are forming their minds in their sexuality.

St. Paul says Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

I can’t understand the logic of “let’s expose our kids to graphic depictions of child rape in a controlled environment because they will encounter it in popular literature anyway…”

that’s just whacked logic.

 

[LilyM]

While I agree, the excerpt that was just posted, (that I replied to above) portrays rape as a satisfying sexual experience for a male. It’s not. Rape is about power…not sex.

Firstly you’re confusing rape with child abuse. Different beasts in a lot of ways. And yes, the motivations can be quite different. Not to mention that there is a possibility of mixed motives - it can certainly be about getting a sexual thrill THROUGH exerting power over another.

And being that the victim is so well known to the attacker there’s every possibility of a very warped idea of ‘love’, sexual and other, being involved, such as is presented by Morrison.

There’s a whole industry - s&m - built around just that idea of combining sexual thrills and power over another, so you can’t pigeonhole people into having just one motive for committing such acsts.

A young mind reading this book, might not grasp that fact, reading something like this that seems to glamourize this horror against another.

And studying King Lear or Macbeth instead, as I did, would help one grow in their Catholic faith how exactly? What about maths?

Being educated in the faith is indeed an important part of going to a Catholic school, but that doesn’t mean the secular aspects of education can or should be neglected in any respect either.

Look, I’m not suggesting that people aren’t right to have concerns, depending upon the maturity of the students and how the material is taught and presented and discussed.

I for one would argue that, while being so open and graphic about such issues has a set of problems of its own, in a lot of ways it is far preferable to the ‘sweep it under the carpet, never discuss it, pretend it doesnt happen’ attitude of a few decades ago.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

While I agree, the excerpt that was just posted, (that I replied to above) portrays rape as a satisfying sexual experience for a male. It’s not. Rape is about power…not sex. A young mind reading this book, might not grasp that fact, reading something like this that seems to glamourize this horror against another.

There are so many books out there to be read…that are fabulously written…are edifying to one’s faith and soul…and are life changers. If I were paying tuition to send my child to a Catholic school, I’d be pretty upset if this, out of all the books on the planet, was the one that the administration collectively agreed would be edifying for teenage girls to be reading.

I’m at a loss as to how a book like this helps a student grow in her faith as a Catholic. Isn’t that the main reason a parent sends his/her child(ren) to Catholic school?

 

[whatevergirl]

Firstly you’re confusing rape with child abuse. Different beasts in a lot of ways. And yes, the motivations can be quite different. Not to mention that there is a possibility of mixed motives - it can certainly be about getting a sexual thrill THROUGH exerting power over another.

And being that the victim is so well known to the attacker there’s every possibility of a very warped idea of ‘love’, sexual and other, being involved, such as is presented by Morrison.

There’s a whole industry - s&m - built around just that idea of combining sexual thrills and power over another, so you can’t pigeonhole people into having just one motive for committing such acsts.

Not a bit of it - the horrific physical and other trauma to the victim is clearly depicted, every bit as vividly as the state of mind of the attacker. I don’t think there’s much possibility of seeing any ‘glamour’ here at all, no matter what the reader’s age.

And studying King Lear or Macbeth instead, as I did, would help one grow in their Catholic faith how exactly? What about maths?

Being educated in the faith is indeed an important part of going to a Catholic school, but that doesn’t mean the secular aspects of education can or should be neglected in any respect either.

Look, I’m not suggesting that people aren’t right to have concerns, depending upon the maturity of the students and how the material is taught and presented and discussed.

I for one would argue that, while being so open and graphic about such issues has a set of problems of its own, in a lot of ways it is far preferable to the ‘sweep it under the carpet, never discuss it, pretend it doesnt happen’ attitude of a few decades ago.

Lily, I think we’re in some form of agreement here…I think kids need to learn the evils of the world…but not in this way. Just that one excerpt shows me that this is not the way to teach teenage girls about the horrors of rape…or child abuse. It is not the right book…there are so many books out there…I just don’t think this is the right choice to teach the subject.

I will say though, I remember when Judy Blume was controversial…nothing like this for pete’s sakes, but I guess each generation has its novels that create controversy. I am not against reading the subject matter…I’m against the sexualized lingo in the book.

That’s all.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Firstly you’re confusing rape with child abuse. Different beasts in a lot of ways. And yes, the motivations can be quite different. Not to mention that there is a possibility of mixed motives - it can certainly be about getting a sexual thrill THROUGH exerting power over another. Still not right to have a bunch of girls reading about it, then discussing it.

And being that the victim is so well known to the attacker there’s every possibility of a very warped idea of ‘love’, sexual and other, being involved, such as is presented by Morrison. Again, this is much too graphic for 16 and 17 year olds- or even 18 year olds. I read the except in question to my husband, a college professor. He was appalled.

There’s a whole industry - s&m - built around just that idea of combining sexual thrills and power over another, so you can’t pigeonhole people into having just one motive for committing such acsts. That doesn’t make the acts, or S&M, or any industry devoted to such sexual acts moral.

Not a bit of it - the horrific physical and other trauma to the victim is clearly depicted, every bit as vividly as the state of mind of the attacker. I don’t think there’s much possibility of seeing any ‘glamour’ here at all, no matter what the reader’s age. It doesn’t have to be glamorous to wear on innocence.

And studying King Lear or Macbeth instead, as I did, would help one grow in their Catholic faith how exactly? What about maths? Math is the ability to utilize God’s creation through numbers. I know Great Books schools that teach mathematics directly from the original works, such as Descartes. This is filth being presented as literature, simply because the author is African-American and on Oprah’s list.

Being educated in the faith is indeed an important part of going to a Catholic school, but that doesn’t mean the secular aspects of education can or should be neglected in any respect either. To neglect this in favor of a less graphic book is not wrong.

Look, I’m not suggesting that people aren’t right to have concerns, depending upon the maturity of the students and how the material is taught and presented and discussed.

I for one would argue that, while being so open and graphic about such issues has a set of problems of its own, in a lot of ways it is far preferable to the ‘sweep it under the carpet, never discuss it, pretend it doesnt happen’ attitude of a few decades ago.In the US, if a parent has a complaint about certain books when they interfere with the religious beliefs of that parent, theparent has a right to remove the child from the class. As a Catholic, I would take this to the bishop’s office immediately.

 

[whatevergirl]

I remember being a teenager, and being curious about sex. My family taught me to wait until marriage. I did. But, I was still curious, and dated boys who wanted me to try things out with them…I didn’t. But, reading a book like this …it’s like dangling a carrot in front of very impressionable girls, in a setting that is teaching them not to think impure thoughts, to save themselves for marriage. I am NOT SAYING that this book will tempt kids into doing immoral things, but the language, in just that one excerpt, is too sexual for teens…Instead of depicting rape/child abuse in the horrific way that it really is…the language the author chose to use was glamourizing of the situation…although, that could be the author’s motive to show how twisted someone who is commiting such acts, really is. I would imagine that is the point.

But, teenage minds are so starved for good literature. This stuff can be found in a Penthouse magazine, the author just twisted things to fit a different plot. It is far from literary genious. Please.

I am a believer in the classics. Steinbeck, Mark Twain, Hemingway, etc…those men knew how to write. They played with one’s imagination, but not in an impure way.

AGAIN, I think there are ways to approach very serious subjects such as child abuse and rape, without reading smutty novels, disguised as teaching tools.

 

[Contarini]

Oh c’mon - what about all the blood and gore, witchcraft, transvestism and more - in Shakespeare (and of course rape - especially in something like his Titus Andronicus)

While I agree with your general point, *Titus Andronicus *would probably never be assigned in a high school–or even in a college except in a very specialized class. No one experts would pay any attention to it if it weren’t by Shakespeare.

Edwin

 

[whatevergirl]

My kids attend public school, and my son’s english teacher (who is very much into the classics) tried to get Clockwork Orange approved, and lost the battle. And that was a pretty good book, from what I remember.

This one would never make it to the classroom!

 

[Annn]

I am a believer in the classics. Steinbeck, Mark Twain, Hemingway, etc…those men knew how to write. They played with one’s imagination, but not in an impure way.

.

These are all white men, none of them all that contemporary. Don’t you think children should be exposed to a diversity of voices?

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

These are all white men, none of them all that contemporary. Don’t you think children should be exposed to a diversity of voices?

No. I like white men. I am in fact married to one.

Good books are often bought and sold in the first few years of their existence. Give me a book that is at least 35 years old and still sells, and we can start talking about whether or not it is good

Nevertheless, here are 25 books I would consider allowing young people who are not yet legal to read. You will note they are written by either women of all sorts and views, men of color, homosexuals or approved by Oprah via her book club:shrug::

Truman Capote, In Cold Blood.
Flannery O’Connor, the Complete Stories (“The Life You Save May Be Your Own” is esp. horrifying but told well.)
William Faulkner, The Sound and the Fury.
Ann B. Ross, Miss Julia Speaks Her Mind (and very contemporary, too!)
Taylor Caldwell, *Grandmother and the Priests *and Pillar of Iron.
Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged. Heaven forfend we expose young women to self-determination and individualism, yet we can expose them to smut billed as “contemporary women’s studies.”
Margaret Mitchell, Gone With The Wind.
If you are going to expose young women to family dysfunction and derrogatory statements about the faith in which they are being raised, Rebecca Wells’ The Divine Secrets Of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood (the book, not the movie) is more appropriate and much more entertaining and much less obnoxious than anything Toni Morrison has written.
Sandra Cisneros, The House On Mango Street.
Carol Joyce Oates, We Were The Mulvaneys (Also deals with rape and child abuse).
Eudora Welty, Delta Wedding.
Ernest J. Gaines, A Lesson Before Dying.
Harper Lee, To Kill A Mockingbird.
Wally Lamb, She’s Come Undone (It’s on Oprah’s list, and I am unsure of Mr. Lamb’s enthicity and sexual preference.)
Mary McCarthy, The Group.
The Complete Novels of Jane Austen.
Audrey Nefenegger, The Time Traveler’s Wife.
Complete Stories of Dorothy Parker.
Pearl S. Buck, The Good Earth.
Fannie Flag, Welcome To The World, Baby Girl!
Amy Tan, The Joy Luck Club.
Margaret Atwood, The Handmaid’s Tale.
KatherineValentine, A Miracle For St.Cecilia’s, A Gathering of Angels, On A Wing and A Prayer, and The County Fair (I’m not very fond of The Haunted Rectory).

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Contemporary white men: Richard Peck, A Year Down Yonder and A Long Way From Chicago. And as they should never be neglected for their depth and richnees, James Michener’s* The Novel, Centennial, The Covenant, and Poland*. I would also recommend Pat Conroy’s *The Great Santini *and Beach Music.

 

[whatevergirl]

These are all white men, none of them all that contemporary. Don’t you think children should be exposed to a diversity of voices?

Absolutely…is this the only book? lol Diverse yes…perverse, no.

 

[whatevergirl]

'burbs! Excellent list! I need to get my notebook. lol Really, thanks for posting that. There are soooo many wonderfully talented modern day authors out there, who can inspire kids…teach them…uplift them. There is nothing edifying about this book choice for teens. College age, yes. They’re adults…not kids. And I’m a pretty open minded person, but that excerpt was gross, and too sexual for teen girls to be reading.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

'burbs! Excellent list! I need to get my notebook. lol Really, thanks for posting that. There are soooo many wonderfully talented modern day authors out there, who can inspire kids…teach them…uplift them. There is nothing edifying about this book choice for teens. College age, yes. They’re adults…not kids. And I’m a pretty open minded person, but that excerpt was gross, and too sexual for teen girls to be reading.

Thank you. I figured if that excerpt embarrassed DH, imagine what it would do to young women.