Catholic High School with Disturbing Reading Lists

[whatevergirl]

Does it need to have this subject matter specifically? No, but it does need to have challenging subject matter that moves the students outside of comfort-zone thinking. Whether this is too far out of that comfort zone is for the parent to say–through a permission slip, etc.

The next step in their education will ask them hard and unpleasant questions. They need to be able to answer them and face the challenge without fear and with full confidence in their faith.

Will the world stop turning if a 17 year old does not read this book? No. But it might be a real mess if we go around forcing our opinions on others and/or running and hiding from everything we find frightening or objectionable. As Christians we should be able to tackle the tough questions and find peaceful resolutions in a mature and even-handed fashion.

True, but this is a Catholic school we’re talking about, and it’s kind of surprising that Catholic parents would be battling to have this in the classroom, at a Catholic school…it’s not what I would imagine seeing in a Catholic school setting. I think that people typically want a uniform way of thinking–a Catholic way of thinking about these types of issues…I don’t think people send their kids by and large, to Catholic schools, to learn what they could learn in a secular environment. And it’s funny, my son needed permission to watch Gladiator, a movie he’s seen a gazillion times…so, there is something wrong if the parents of this school in question, are not given a choice, considering the subject matter is much more intense than the likes of Gladiator.

 

[whatevergirl]

I’m a very open parent with my kids. We talk about everything, we have seen movies that many parents would deem inappropriate for them, but I found them to be fine. I don’t believe in sheltering kids against the horrors of the world. So, this book could serve a purpose. I don’t like the writing style and the portrayal of the antagonist…from what I see, it is a book that IN MY OPINION…makes incest and molestion look like another lifestyle, by graphically portraying what is taking place between the molestor and the child.

That being said…when I look at quality education, I want my kids to come out of high school…knowing how to spell, read, write on a college level. Not a middle school level, but a college level. I want them to know how to debate, communicate, give speeches, and basically be prepared for college. I think that meaningful dialogue needs to take place about tough subjects such as these, but not with this book. That’s all.

I’m far from a bury my head in the sands mother. I am actually quite the opposite. My friends are amazed at what our kids know and what we chat about, but part of parenting is talking about the tough stuff…I don’t need a school to mother my kids. I do that. I wouldn’t be paying tuition for a Catholic high school, for them to be learning about this stuff, without my presence…without my knowledge.

I think that our schools need to start getting back to the basics of teaching, otherwise we’re going to see less and less jobs going to Americans, and more going overseas. If you don’t believe me, there are stats upon stats out there of how our schools here are faring against our foreign counterparts, and it’s sad. Get back to teaching kids academics. There are better battles to wage, this just isn’t one of them.

 

[juliamajor]

My Catholic HS -a zillion years ago- was reading books thought to be radical and beyond the pale.Going to Catholic High does not shield you in any way from the world. Nor should it. What mine taught me, and what any Catholic school should teach- is how do deal with these situations in a moral Christian way. High school is not supposed to get you ready and teach you for four years only. It’s a persons leap from childhood into adulthood- it’s supposed to set you up for your whole life. By the end of High School your sense of morality is pretty much entrenched.A parents’ solid loving teaching should be their anchor along as an adjunct , mores built within you in school… The pity is that so many people are incensed with a book( given them by a school , read at home and discussed in the classroom) raises much more ire then what the media , popular culture and their friends tell and show them! these are way more dangerous because no one is doing anything in their best interest-money and thrills are their bottom line. If you are going to talk about anything that has moral implications isn’t best to discuss it in a controlled , academic atmosphere- then from the learning everything from the “streets”.It truly mystifies me that literature is being condemned(which has an academic point at least and a moral sociological point at best) then the mind numbing swill that surrounds and assaults them on a daily basis just walking the streets and talking to their friends.Truly strange.!

 

[MamaZona]

True, but this is a Catholic school we’re talking about, and it’s kind of surprising that Catholic parents would be battling to have this in the classroom, at a Catholic school…it’s not what I would imagine seeing in a Catholic school setting. I think that people typically want a uniform way of thinking–a Catholic way of thinking about these types of issues…I don’t think people send their kids by and large, to Catholic schools, to learn what they could learn in a secular environment. And it’s funny, my son needed permission to watch Gladiator, a movie he’s seen a gazillion times…so, there is something wrong if the parents of this school in question, are not given a choice, considering the subject matter is much more intense than the likes of Gladiator.

Catholics come in all varieties, though. When I think of Catholics, I tend to think of a diverse group of people centered around a very thoughtful faith. It’s something I admired about Catholics so much that I decided to join them I’ve yet to run into a Christian denomination that puts more thought behind their teachings than the Catholics do.

I can understand the frustrations, but the fact the issue itself comes up, to me, makes the Catholic school worthy of praise. Not for the material, so much as the willingness to take on approaches which may or may not make everyone completely comfortable–pushing the envelope, I guess you could say.

I support a choice in the matter. I think all the parents should be involved in making sure parental choice remains a part of the curriculum. It’s also a good time to come together and discuss what is and is not acceptable among the teachers and parents. The whole thing could be very educative for all of the parties involved.

I know this discussion on CAF has enlightened my own view. My knee jerk first response was “let them read it”, but seeing the passionate and reasonable response from many thoughtful Catholic posters made me see, where I hadn’t before, the full picture of the other side. I now clearly see the value of compromise in education–not as giving in, but as a chance to show respect for others.

Which is a better way to parent in this case? God knows, but you should have that choice (so should I). It’s certainly been an interesting talk.

 

[MomaMary8]

Does it need to have this subject matter specifically? No, but it does need to have challenging subject matter that moves the students outside of comfort-zone thinking. Whether this is too far out of that comfort zone is for the parent to say–through a permission slip, etc.

The next step in their education will ask them hard and unpleasant questions. They need to be able to answer them and face the challenge without fear and with full confidence in their faith.

Will the world stop turning if a 17 year old does not read this book? No. But it might be a real mess if we go around forcing our opinions on others and/or running and hiding from everything we find frightening or objectionable. As Christians we should be able to tackle the tough questions and find peaceful resolutions in a mature and even-handed fashion.

What in the world does this have to do with education??? Education is NOT about “moving” the child. That smells of social engineering.

Any way, teach a child beauty, and they will recognize ugliness when they see it. Teach them purity, and they will know filth when they encounter it. It is never wrong to present the uplifting side of life. It is the best foil for the horrible sins that are rampant in our lives.

 

[SmartyPants]

People like most of those who post on this board are the reason my 15 year old daughter is enrolled in a non-sectarian academically challenging private school instead of one of the local Catholic Schools. I actually want my child to have some critical thinking skills when she heads off to college.

As a college professor, I see the logical result of the type of parenting endemic on this board–it ain’t pretty the first time anything challenges their worldview. That will not be my kid!

 

[MamaZona]

What in the world does this have to do with education??? Education is NOT about “moving” the child. That smells of social engineering.

Any way, teach a child beauty, and they will recognize ugliness when they see it. Teach them purity, and they will know filth when they encounter it. It is never wrong to present the uplifting side of life. It is the best foil for the horrible sins that are rampant in our lives.

I’ve already said, more or less, you do it your way and I will do it mine. Education seeks to expand a person’s understanding of the world around them–not to distort or move them away from dearly held convictions, but to make them exercise those convictions through mental exercise. I meant move as in inspire a response–that response could as easily be revulsion as it could anything else.

Now, whether or not this particular mental exercise is worthwhile, is open to debate and ultimately falls to the discretion of the parent, but I don’t think there can be any doubt about the role of such discussions in education.

 

[whatevergirl]

I like your thinking Mama Zona…more and more I read. I should add you to my favorites list. (and you sound italian, what’s not to like?) lol!!! Really, I’m in agreement, but no one listened to me…:bighanky:

I basically think the parents should be able to opt out, and this book should not be mandatory.

 

[MamaZona]

People like most of those who post on this board are the reason my 15 year old daughter is enrolled in a non-sectarian academically challenging private school instead of one of the local Catholic Schools. I actually want my child to have some critical thinking skills when she heads off to college.

As a college professor, I see the logical result of the type of parenting endemic on this board–it ain’t pretty the first time anything challenges their worldview. That will not be my kid!

In fairness, SmartyPants, there’s a lot you say which I agree with. I think, though, to paint all Catholic schools with a broad brush is unfair.

There are many forms of ignorance. I met a woman once who told me her Catholic school experience taught her to question everything, to think critically even about faith, etc. I’ve met others who were schooled by orders they felt were stifling.

I, myself, attended public schools (before being homeschooled) and once had a charcoal drawing book confiscated from me for containing PORN!!! ACKK!! What was this filth? Well, it was a life drawing of the (naked) human form–it just happened to be a rather Rubenesque woman sitting on a pedestal. The teacher made it known to the class and I was heckled the rest of the year as the pervert of the school–and a lesbian. One who had a particular preference for old fat ladies

The book was one used in a drawing class I attended as enrichment. I didn’t even know that picture was back there as the class focused on drawing hands and faces.

The teacher went rifling through it one day while I was away from my desk and discovered the “porn”.

Ignorance is everywhere. I’m sorry you’ve apparently had such a bad experience with Catholic schools. I know how those sorts of memories can sour a person. I just want to point out, the reaction to censor or avoid compromise where compromise is possible is not uniquely Catholic. On the contrary, it is human.

I’m sure your daughter will benefit from your appreciation of critical inquiry, and from the private education you sacrifice to provide.

 

[MamaZona]

I like your thinking Mama Zona…more and more I read. I should add you to my favorites list. (and you sound italian, what’s not to like?) lol!!! Really, I’m in agreement, but no one listened to me…:bighanky:

I basically think the parents should be able to opt out, and this book should not be mandatory.

Thank you, I appreciate that very much. Italian? No, but I admire the culture and the deep appreciation of family (the food’s great, too:thumbsup: we couldn’t live without it). Nope, my birth certificate should have come with a Heinz label, because I’m the result of at least 57 varieties

I’m sorry you felt ignored. That’s the trouble with discussing issues people feel strongly about (such as the best way to raise/educate children): we, including myself, get emotional and forget the worthwhile efforts/points expressed by the other side.

But, the flip side of that is the fact it’s really nice to see how much everyone cares about the forming of the next generation

 

[Litcrit]

Have y’all read the classics?

…

The classics are quite brutal and sexual. … A good deal of the time the message is explicit, because reality is explicit.

That’s the first thing I thought when I saw ‘classics’ mentioned. Shakespeare’s ‘Rape of Lucrece’, anyone?

I do not think people in high school should read Faust.

I read it when I was 14. I’d read much of Shakespeare by that time, too, and Hesse and Nietzsche and Remarque and Dostoyevsky etc., none of it sugarcoating reality.

Then, when I was 15, I went on to study Gnostic and Manichean and Cabalist texts and read more more more of the ‘classics’, all quite disturbing really .

I turned out fine and now all this is my job.

Developing critical thought in our children is the MOST important task we have, because we won’t be there to shield them forever.

All that said, I find Toni Morrison REALLY boring…

 

[LilyM]

I read it when I was 14. I’d read much of Shakespeare by that time, too, and Hesse and Nietzsche and Remarque and Dostoyevsky etc., none of it sugarcoating reality.

I was, I think, 17 (roughly the same age as the young ladies in question in this thread) when I read the play ‘Dr Faustus’ by Christopher Marlowe (a contemporary of Shakespeare). Obviously not the same thing as Goethe’s poem, but of course essentially the same story and quite confronting in its own way, particularly the ending.

All that said, I find Toni Morrison REALLY boring…

I’m sure you know that’s some people find Shakespeare painfully boring, or think Jane Austen or Charles Dickens are total drags. Doesn’t mean they aren’t classics or worthy of study.

Speaking of Dickens, if you want to talk a horrific writer - I think ‘Hard Times’ or one of his others books has a bunch of characters who make a living by finding dead bodies washed up on the banks of the Thames and stripping them of their belongings And Bill Sykes in Oliver Twist is a pretty darn awful character too.

 

[Litcrit]

I was, I think, 17 (roughly the same age as the young ladies in question in this thread) when I read the play ‘Dr Faustus’ by Christopher Marlowe (a contemporary of Shakespeare). Obviously not the same thing as Goethe’s poem, but of course essentially the same story and quite confronting in its own way, particularly the ending…

Well, it wasn’t until the ripe old age of 19 that I read Marlowe’s version, but yes, I found it quite interesting.

I’m sure you know that’s some people find Shakespeare painfully boring, or think Jane Austen or Charles Dickens are total drags. Doesn’t mean they aren’t classics or worthy of study…

I never could understand people who found Shakespeare boring! He can entertain soap-lovers, thriller-lovers, theologians and philosophers, all at the same time! Can you tell I’m writing my PhD thesis on Shakespeare? I love love love him.

Speaking of Dickens, if you want to talk a horrific writer - I think ‘Hard Times’ or one of his others books has a bunch of characters who make a living by finding dead bodies washed up on the banks of the Thames and stripping them of their belongings And Bill Sykes in Oliver Twist is a pretty darn awful character too.

Exactly. And Dickens at least was actually quite a respectable read even in his own day, unlike Mark Twain and the like.

 

[LilyM]

I never could understand people who found Shakespeare boring! He can entertain soap-lovers, thriller-lovers, theologians and philosophers, all at the same time! Can you tell I’m writing my PhD thesis on Shakespeare? I love love love him.

Hehe, never would’ve guessed

I think it’s the language barrier more than anything - takes a bit of work for we modern types to really get to grips with Elizabethan English. Once you crack it, the student usually falls in love as you have.

There’s something about Taming of the Shrew that I find really appealing - maybe coming from a family full of very outspoken women has something to do with it

 

[PRmerger]

Hi, Folks!

OP here. Someone way back when in this thread asked me to post the final outcome on this issue:

The school has removed “The Bluest Eye” from its required reading list.

Just a FYI.

 

[TamaraSieja]

:ehh: BA in eng. lit. here, magna cum laude '02… never read Morrison, and was never expected to be *familiar *with her work.

Me Too! I’m working on my Masters in Eng Lit and I’ve not read this author either! The fact that this is on the recommended reading list for a CATHOLIC school makes my stomach churn. That’s terrible!

I’ve read some appauling things in literature and it would be one thing if this book were on a college or graduate reading list but young high school? No chance. We didn’t even read a lot of Shakespear’s darker works in high school. High school girls (and boys) are a lot more wordly than my parents and perhaps even than myself although I’m only 10 years older than they are. But still I’m not sure that topics such as the work that was quoted is appropriate for that age. I certainly wouldn’t have assigned it.

 

[HouseArrest]

Hi, Folks!

OP here. Someone way back when in this thread asked me to post the final outcome on this issue:

The school has removed “The Bluest Eye” from its required reading list.

Just a FYI.

Excellent!

 

[dominicandinah]

Pardon me for jumping in here, but “black people” don’t think, talk, and act like the characters in Morrison’s books anymore than white people are accurately represented in “The Family Guy”!

If you are looking for a literary genius to display something along those lines; try Maya Angelou.