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CWBetts
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The Pope is has Apostolic authority
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Symux
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That is what the Roman Catholic Church claims, and again without any proof of the matter. They claim, so you believe.
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benedictus2
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While I agree with both posts, I would like to know though why this is not done by the Church. Anyone know the reason?You are right of course!.. The Church should stand firm as it has done on many other issues.
When I was young I would criticise the Church for taking a stand - now I have become more and more orthodox. little sinstend tobecome big sins!
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benedictus2
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Hi Symux,
Please take the time to go to to this link.
Scott Hahn on the Papacy
When I asked Hisalone to read it, he baulked at the length of it. It is not really all that long if you are a serious searcher of truth.
It will answer a few of your questions, I am sure.
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benedictus2
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**Infallibility is not a matter of choice. **It is Christ’s gift so that we will be assured that what the Church teaches is true and is thus binding on the faithful. What makes the Pope infallible is Christ’s promise to send the Holy Spirit to guide the Church into all truth. Infallibility is not solely the Pope’s domain. Infallibility also applies to the bishop when they speak as a whole on faith and morals.
Now the Pope may well be right in his opinions but only those teachings which pertain to faith and morals are deemed infallible when pronounced ex-cathedra. This guarantee is necessary or else every single doctrine that the Church teaches becomes questionable.
In the latter case everyone single person becomes his own pope and his own magisterium.
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benedictus2
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The Church is not here to tell the people what they don’t want to hear. If that were the case, we would not have a God who died hanging on a cross.
The Church is meant to go against the grain, to follow the narrow path.
Yesterday, I was reading Ecclesiasticus 6 about speaking your truth and not being mealy mouthed about it.
I think Pope Benedict is changing that now. He is not much for large but lukewarm memberships. He is quite happy I think to have a smaller but fervent Church. Only this kind of Church can truly speak to the world about Christ. Anything else is a Church of compromise and one cannot compromise with the world.
We should not allow what has happened to the protestant Churches to happen to the Catholic Church. Sure they have a lot of members, but only because they cater to the worldly whims of the population. They allowed the world to evangelize them rather than them evangelizing the world.
It must be noted that in American diocesses that are more orthodox, there is an actual growth in vocations to the priesthood. It is those that have compromised their Catholicism that have declining numbers in the seminary.
We must not be afraid to proclaim the hard and sometimes unpalatable Truth.
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Cinette
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*Oh Benedictus - you are so right:
*"They allowed the world to evangelize them rather than them evangelizing the world.
It must be noted that in American diocesses that are more orthodox, there is an actual growth in vocations to the priesthood. It is those that have compromised their Catholicism that have declining numbers in the seminary."**
We are the only Christian Church that has not compromised and we must stand firm. We must listen to God and not expect God to listen to us and bow to our whims.
It is better to have a smaller Church with loyal and obedient servants to the will of God than to compromise.
How right you are.
*"They allowed the world to evangelize them rather than them evangelizing the world.
It must be noted that in American diocesses that are more orthodox, there is an actual growth in vocations to the priesthood. It is those that have compromised their Catholicism that have declining numbers in the seminary."**
We are the only Christian Church that has not compromised and we must stand firm. We must listen to God and not expect God to listen to us and bow to our whims.
It is better to have a smaller Church with loyal and obedient servants to the will of God than to compromise.
How right you are.
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CWBetts
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The Apostles ordained Apostles to follwo in their footsteps (Matthias, Paul, Barnabas). There is also an unbroken chain of Popes starting with St. Peter. So YES there is PROOF. You just choose to ignore it. So what linkage does your faith jhave with Christ? Catholicism has the Popes.
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ron77nyc
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This is this an infallible decree. Are all popes in agreement with it?
Pope Boniface VIII, in his Bull Unam Sanctum (1302), Furthermore, we declare, say, define, and proclaim to every human creature that they by necessity for salvation are entirely subject to the Roman Pontiff.
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Peter_J
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I thought we were talking about: if the Pope can teach infallibly, why would he ever choose not to?
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Peter_J
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This was re-affirmed by Vatican I, when it declared that the Pope’s authority is “universal”.
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ron77nyc
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This article is from the National Catholic Reporter 7/18/1997. It’s a more realistic view of infallibility. The Pope doesn’t “enjoy” the gift of infallibility like he would enjoy a good meal or a sunny day in the park.
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_n34_v33/ai_19633321/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1
“Vatican II pretty much decided not to give Mary any more titles.”
“No way,” several priests said over a luncheon recently. “No way. The pope can only define what the church already believes. And this notion has been rejected over and over again. He just can’t do it.”
“Ironically, because a “coredeemer” would by definition be a priest, the proposed dogma could bring aid and comfort to the growing number of those who support the ordination of women.”
“This proposed dogma is unique in that it clearly does not enjoy the full support of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith or its prefect, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who cautioned the Holy Father over a year ago not to push the teachings.”
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ron77nyc
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Do you think Pope Boniface would have approved of Vatican II which opened salvation to those who wished to be saved by baptism of desire, Jews who faithfully follow the Old Covenant and Protestants who were born into Protestantism?
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ron77nyc
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CatsAndDogs
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Pope Boniface may not have then (while alive), but he certainly does NOW, assuming he’s one of the saints in heaven.
If he’s NOT one of the saints, then it really doesn’t matter WHAT he believes, does it?
:shamrock2:
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ron77nyc
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That doesn’t make any sense.
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ron77nyc
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That doesn’t make sense.
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Peter_J
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Also, the Pope doesn’t “exercise infallibility” like you would “exercise” a stock option.
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Peter_J
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I don’t know, but I don’t care too much anyhow.
The truth is the truth, regardless of whether so-and-so believes it.
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SyCarl
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And that question still remains. Did Paul or Peter decide when they were going to be infallible? Not everything the Apostles wrote was infallible. The missing letter to the Laodiceans comes to mind. It was not preserved through the protection of the Holy Spirit as the canonical letters were.
The Church has said the Pope can act infallibly. It is up to him when he does. Then why would he choose ever not to. It appears that he claims even more authority than the Apostles did since they didn’t declare themselves infallible.
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