Catholic history is disturbing

[CWBetts]

It is the eduaction system in this country which neglects to say a word about Catholics martyred during the bloodbath known as the reformation.

 

[ralphinal]

How many Catholics have there been?

How many of them were truly evil?

If you take any 2,000 year old group, there would be major good and evil done by its members. Wait, we are the only 2,000 year old group…

If you go to a city that is 2,000 years old, will you see beauty? Will you see squalor? Will you see places that need to be rebuilt? Does any of that mean that the city should be destroyed or abandonded? Does any of that make it less of a city?

 

[Peter_J]

Has anyone else delved into Catholic history and found the utter corruption and moral depravity shocking? I find it hard to really be proud of my Catholic roots when there is sooooooo much corruption in it. I wish it was one or two isolated incidences but corruption and lust for power seem to pervade every second of the Church’s history. And it continues to this day.

As kelly and others have said, corruption and such are found in all kinds of groups, Catholic and non-Catholic, religious and non-religious, etc.

The problem is when people e.g. focus entirely on the wrongs done by Pope Leo X while ignoring the wrongs done by John Calvin – or conversely, when people focus entirely on the wrongs done by John Calvin while ignoring the wrongs done by Pope Leo X. (That’s just an example. I’m not trying to start a fight between Catholics and Calvinists.)

 

[reteeks21]

Has anyone else delved into Catholic history and found the utter corruption and moral depravity shocking? I find it hard to really be proud of my Catholic roots when there is sooooooo much corruption in it. I wish it was one or two isolated incidences but corruption and lust for power seem to pervade every second of the Church’s history. And it continues to this day.

While all of that may be true to an extent, it is important to keep in mind that the Christian church, especially the rcc has “evolved” over the years. They left behind a lot of the old ways and got back to living the way Christ commanded. That’s more than at least one religion in particular can say.

 

[cfrancis]

Has anyone else delved into Catholic history and found the utter corruption and moral depravity shocking? I find it hard to really be proud of my Catholic roots when there is sooooooo much corruption in it. I wish it was one or two isolated incidences but corruption and lust for power seem to pervade every second of the Church’s history. And it continues to this day.

In addition to the fine comments already given, may I suggest two books for you, to broaden your view of Catholic History?

How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization by Dr Thomas Woods

Triumph: The Power and Glory of the Catholic Church by H.W. Crocker III

If you want something for a more specific episode:

Hitler, the War and the Pope by Dr Ronald Rychlak

 

[Among_Strangers]

suupah:

…but corruption and lust for power seem to pervade every second of the Church’s history. And it continues to this day.

Can you give us an example of how you think Pope Benedict XVI is corrupt and lusts for power; or, of Pope John Paul II of recent and beloved memory?

 

[Genesis315]

As Oscar Wilde said, “the Catholic Church is for saints and sinners, for respectable people, the Anglican Church will do.”

The Church doesn’t claim to be made up only of the righteous. She claims to hand on the way to salvation–but she doesn’t claim all her members will adhere to that way.

We must have self-knowledge. All have sinned. We all deserve to be damned. Christ said be perfect like our Father in Heaven–thus, we are all held to the same standard and we all fall short miserably. Instead of being ashamed of those who have sinned, forgive them and ask forgiveness in humility for yourself and them.

The righteous Pharisees were scandalized because Christ associated with sinners. What is His Church but His associates? Will you also be so scandalized? Almost all schisms and heresies are the result of some person or group feeling they are too good to associate with the poor sinners of the Church–that is the path to destruction. Having compassion and bearing humbly and patiently with our fellow sinners is the path to salvation.

 

[FM927]

And that is why I am a “CAFERTERIA CATHOLIC”.
Only God is infallible, no one else! Based on this, I feel that blindly following all the teaching of the CHURCH which is made up of human people who claim to be under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but still human and capable of making wrong decisions, is not too palpable for me. God said " Those of you without sin, cast the first stone" No one could!

How can the Church comdemn pedophiliacs when there are so many people within the Church that have engaged in such discusting practices. Before their activities were brought into the open after many years, these priests still said mass and received the holy host. Talk about committing MORTAL SINS!
When the Church found out about it, in many instances the Bishop just transfered the priest to another parish and no one knew any beter. That is like saying "Do as I say, but don’t do as I do!

I have asked God for so many favors and HE has always answerd me! If I am such a bad person because I do NOT follow all the teaching to a T, why HE’s always there for me!

If being a perfect Catholic is what gets us into heaven, then just out of curiosity, where are all the other people from different religions go when they die?

I am a Cradle Catholic, meaning have not converted to this religion, but was born into it. All the people I know are the same and all share the same beliefs. I honestly can say that I really do NOT know anyone who truly followes all that the Church teaches and I am sure that many people who profess to be 100% Catholics, if they really look deep down in their hearts, may not really be, but are afraid to even admit it to themselves.

sorry this post is so long!

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

“The Catholic Church is only for saints and sinners. For “respectable people”, the Anglican Church will do”
–Oscar Wilde, Catholic Convert (last month of his life)

(Sorry Genesis, saw you quoted same )

 

[water]

FM927, here is the verse from the Bible for all of us to mediate on:

Revelation 3:16
But since you are lukewarm and not hot or cold, I’m going to spit you out of my mouth.

 

[Genesis315]

That is like saying "Do as I say, but don’t do as I do!

Which is exactly what Christ taught concerning the leaders of His time.

Matt. 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, 2 Saying: The scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. 3 All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not.

You say only God is infallible? Quite right–when Peter gave the true doctrine that Christ is the Son of God, Jesus says that it is not from flesh and blood that he proclaimed this, but because the Father revealed it. (see Matt. 16). Peter taught the truth from God, even though he sinned many times (similarly he rightly proclaimed the inclusion of the Gentiles, and then later refused to associate with them).

In fact, God reveals His truth to us through sinful people who don’t always live up to the standard. Moses, all the prophets and Apostles and all the rest who have given us God’s message all sinned against that very message.

And yes, none of us are perfect as Our Father in Heaven is–in that, none of us adhere to the Gospel 100%–but the issue is knowing what that Gospel is and striving after it–not lowering the standard to fit where we already are.

 

[SIA]

Has anyone else delved into Catholic history and found the utter corruption and moral depravity shocking? I find it hard to really be proud of my Catholic roots when there is sooooooo much corruption in it. I wish it was one or two isolated incidences but corruption and lust for power seem to pervade every second of the Church’s history. And it continues to this day.

So do you still believe it to be the one and only true Church that Jesus founded? Just curious.

 

[water]

Among the 12 apostles, one betrayed him. Does this mean Jesus is not God for Him having sinner among His apostles?

 

[FM927]

FM927, here is the verse from the Bible for all of us to mediate on:

Revelation 3:16
But since you are lukewarm and not hot or cold, I’m going to spit you out of my mouth.

Who said that? That is so mean!

 

[water]

Who said that? That is so mean!

FM, It is in the Bible.

 

[cthulhubryan]

Who said that? That is so mean!

God did through The Revelation of St. John

“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.”
Revelation 3:14-16

 

[1edyson]

and even with all of that turmoil and she stands firm in our midst today. What better evidence of Gods Blessing on his church that she’s stood through so much. If any other church around today went through even a tenth of the scandal how long would they have lasted.

 

[cfrancis]

And that is why I am a “CAFERTERIA CATHOLIC”.
Only God is infallible, no one else! Based on this, I feel that blindly following all the teaching of the CHURCH which is made up of human people who claim to be under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but still human and capable of making wrong decisions, is not too palpable for me. God said " Those of you without sin, cast the first stone" No one could!

How consistent are you with your own declared philosophy?
If you read the Bible, have you:

• first, studied and read all the writings from the middle of the first century to the end of the fourth century that vied for inclusion in the canon of Scripture?
• second, removed any books from the Bible you feel do not measure up to the standard of Scripture?
• third, with whatever you have defined as your canon of Scripture, resolved your statement, “Only God is infallible, no one else” with the fact that fallible men wrote infallible Scripture?
  – from this third issue, you need to come to a resolution:
  — either God is able to protect fallible man, via the Holy Spirit, from teaching error in such matters as writing Scripture or making pronouncements on matters of faith and morals;
  — or, Scripture, written by fallible men, is not inerrant.

How can the Church comdemn pedophiliacs when there are so many people within the Church that have engaged in such discusting practices. Before their activities were brought into the open after many years, these priests still said mass and received the holy host. Talk about committing MORTAL SINS!
When the Church found out about it, in many instances the Bishop just transfered the priest to another parish and no one knew any beter. That is like saying "Do as I say, but don’t do as I do!

How can Christ teach obedience to the commandments when one of His Apostles was stealing? How can Christ and the Apostles teach faithfulness when one of the Apostles betrayed Christ?
By your standard, I, as a father, cannot teach right and wrong to my children unless I prefectly adhere to the standard. Is this really your position?

I have asked God for so many favors and HE has always answerd me! If I am such a bad person because I do NOT follow all the teaching to a T, why HE’s always there for me!

If you have children, are they perfectly obedient, perfectly behaved, perfect, period?
Does their falling short of perfection mean you do not love them, care for them, help them, play with them?
Does their falling short of perfection mean you stop teaching them how to obey, behave, etc…?

I am a Cradle Catholic, meaning have not converted to this religion, but was born into it. All the people I know are the same and all share the same beliefs. I honestly can say that I really do NOT know anyone who truly followes all that the Church teaches and I am sure that many people who profess to be 100% Catholics, if they really look deep down in their hearts, may not really be, but are afraid to even admit it to themselves.

I, too, am a cradle Catholic, and I oh so many families striving to live the faith in its fullness.
Is it easy? No.
Do we stop trying? No.
Do we believe in all the Church teaches? Yes.

 

[estesbob]

Has anyone else delved into Catholic history and found the utter corruption and moral depravity shocking? I find it hard to really be proud of my Catholic roots when there is sooooooo much corruption in it. I wish it was one or two isolated incidences but corruption and lust for power seem to pervade every second of the Church’s history. And it continues to this day.

You’re referring, of course, to members of the church not the Church itself. the Catholic Church has been the greatest force for good in the history of all mankind. But then there should be no surprise since the Church and Jesus are one in the same.

 

[Peter_J]

How can the Church comdemn pedophiliacs when there are so many people within the Church that have engaged in such discusting practices. Before their activities were brought into the open after many years, these priests still said mass and received the holy host. Talk about committing MORTAL SINS!
When the Church found out about it, in many instances the Bishop just transfered the priest to another parish and no one knew any beter. That is like saying "Do as I say, but don’t do as I do!

I think your anger is quite understandable.