Catholic history is disturbing

  • Thread starter Thread starter suupah
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Actully this was discussed on the deceased eastern christianity sub-forum here on caf…i was at that time just a lurker here…i remember Father Ambrose bringing to light these documents…Him being a Orthodox clergy and a monk ,i would believe him,before anyone else here that denies them…🤷 :cool: :rolleyes: 😛
t
You can trust whomever you like. He’s made claims in the past that he wouldn’t (or couldn’t) provide support for, so I don’t find invoking his name as very compelling. When a non-Catholic pretends to know more about Catholic teaching than Catholics, I tend to be skeptical. If I wanted to authentically understand the teachings of Judaism, for example, I wouldn’t ask an anti-semite to teach me, nor would I expect an anti-semite to give an unbiased view. Instead, I would ask a faithful Rabbi to learn the teachings of Judaism. 😉
 
Are you going to comment on www.reformation.com or not? I do not agree with what happened but this Cardinal had no choice. Do you see what has happened since it has been revealed? I am from Boston and the guy that accused two priests here of molesting him turned out to be not true and the guy killed himself because he lied. There were a lot of witch hunts around and accusing priests who were innocent.
Many attorneys who were non-Catholic made tons of money off these cases, even when one was innocent.
Priests are the umbilical cord to God. I have much respect for them. Can you do their job of perserverance and sacrifice? Can you be a priest in third world countries with constant threats behind your back? I don’t think so. Leave the priests alone.
First of all, Cardinal Law thought he didn’t have a choice. he wanted to save the churches face. That is not Catholic teaching. Had he done what was right and had these priests indicted and tried I for one would have much more faith in the uprightness of our hierarchy. So would the countless Catholics who left the church because of this scandal.

I am sorry but there is no excuse for him treating a priest as if he is outside or above the civil law. ANYONE who molests a kid should be tried in a civil court and accept due punishment. LAW should right now be in jail.

Get in touch with the consequences of his actions. Really think about it. Let that sink in. then decide if he did what was right and if the pope should have promoted him.

AS for your site. Meaningless because 1. we are not discussing other churches and 2. non of those churches make the claims the RCC makes.
 
AS for your site. Meaningless because 1. we are not discussing other churches and 2. non of those churches make the claims the RCC makes.
Sure. Non of those churches make any claims like:
  1. RCC priests are immoral
  2. We are the true Church
  3. If you don’t join us, you won’t be saved.
  4. We have the correct Bible interpretations.
  5. ___damn America!
    etc, and the likes.
 
You can trust whomever you like. He’s made claims in the past that he wouldn’t (or couldn’t) provide support for, so I don’t find invoking his name as very compelling. When a non-Catholic pretends to know more about Catholic teaching than Catholics, I tend to be skeptical. If I wanted to authentically understand the teachings of Judaism, for example, I wouldn’t ask an anti-semite to teach me, nor would I expect an anti-semite to give an unbiased view. Instead, I would ask a faithful Rabbi to learn the teachings of Judaism. 😉
If i remember reading correctly he was old school educated catholic…then converted to orthodoxy and became a priest monk…he knows Catholicism better than you or i…and a very bright person…🤷 😛 😃
 
If i remember reading correctly he was old school educated catholic…then converted to orthodoxy and became a priest monk…he knows Catholicism better than you or i…and a very bright person…🤷 😛 😃
When you say “old school educated Catholic”, does that include a very shall-we-say “un-ecumenical” attitude? If so, I’d say that he carried that with him when he converted to Orthodoxy.

My :twocents:.
 
First of all, Cardinal Law thought he didn’t have a choice. he wanted to save the churches face. That is not Catholic teaching. Had he done what was right and had these priests indicted and tried I for one would have much more faith in the uprightness of our hierarchy. So would the countless Catholics who left the church because of this scandal.

I am sorry but there is no excuse for him treating a priest as if he is outside or above the civil law. ANYONE who molests a kid should be tried in a civil court and accept due punishment. LAW should right now be in jail.

Get in touch with the consequences of his actions. Really think about it. Let that sink in. then decide if he did what was right and if the pope should have promoted him.

AS for your site. Meaningless because 1. we are not discussing other churches and 2. non of those churches make the claims the RCC makes.
The pope didn’t promote him, get that through your head, second, if you want to talk pedophlia, then go to www.reformation.com and since we are talking molestation in the church, this site has thousands of molestations in churches of other denominations, so yes we are talking of the same thing.
I have two sons. God forbid that had happened to one of them. I would never leave my faith, ever. That is like leaving Christ and I won’t do it. I would hope that that priest had counseling and leave it up to God.
Why don’t you concentrate on the good the church does all over the world? Like the almost 2 million Knights of Colombus feeding the poor, all the missionaries of the churches dying and being hurt so the poor don’t go hungry. All the priests in war torn countries and third world who sacrifice their lives for the love of their faith. If all you could think of is the year 2001 after 2,000 years of the Catholic church, then you need counseling and more knowledge of your church. If you keep complaining about the past, you will and can never move ahead with the future.
 
If i remember reading correctly he was old school educated catholic…then converted to orthodoxy and became a priest monk…he knows Catholicism better than you or i…and a very bright person…🤷 😛 😃
I’m just curious as to how one who has 80 posts and joined in August remembers Father Ambrose in a forum long since the defunct? What name did you used to post under?
 
I’m just curious as to how one who has 80 posts and joined in August remembers Father Ambrose in a forum long since the defunct? What name did you used to post under?
I wondered about that too. But then I read:
Actully this was discussed on the deceased eastern christianity sub-forum here on caf…i was at that time just a lurker here…i remember Father Ambrose bringing to light these documents…Him being a Orthodox clergy and a monk ,i would believe him,before anyone else here that denies them…🤷 :cool: :rolleyes: 😛
t
 
I suppose to depends on what part of history you are looking at!

Many people only perceive the negative. For example, how much good news gets covered in newspapers or the media? The answer is very little. Likewise, all the good the Catholic Church has done throughout the ages is frequently overlooked. To me, that’s even more disturbing.
 
I wondered about that too. But then I read:
The subjects were of great interest to me… …the differences in the catholic and orthodox traditions,and on how the popes were honored when the churches were united…Also how they and you viewed why chist had to die…ecclesiastical divorces versus annulment …how apostolic succession was recognized ,for orthodox only with in the church ,not out side the church …for catholics in or out of the church didn’t matter…other things as well…
The subject of the popes claiming to be god on earth was a eye opener…🤷 😛 😃
 
The Catholic Church history has its ups and downs. However, its teachings have remain consistent with the Gospel message of Jesus Christ.
You’re exactly right, Manny, but some prefer to find an excuse for disdain through the scandals they see either real or imagained. If one gets all hot and bothered by such scandals within Catholicism he should just consider a bit the example of the Hebrew people of the Old Testament. God choose Israel to be a holy nation, a people set apart for Himself. So how do they comport themselves as a holy people? Murder, idolatry, harlotry, adultery, you name it they did it. Yet God did not abandon them for His divine purpose was being accomplished in the midst of all the sinfulness of His still holy people.

In the scene portrayed in St. John’s Gospel where Our Lord greets the Samaritan woman at the well of Jacob, what does He say to her? “Salvation is from the Jews.” These are the same Jews who did all those previously mentioned evils, and who would soon put Him to death, using their enemies to commit deicide, and “salvation is from them”! Why? They were holy people, the people chosen and set apart by God; God acted through their very sinfulness to accomplish His will.

So it is with the Catholic Church. When man was reconciled to God by and in His Son the Catholic Church, the Incarnation extended in time and place, became the means by which humanity could enter into the New Covenant in the Blood of Christ. Through the Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, God dispenses the Grace (Divine Life) – especially through the sacramental life – to bring all people to Himself. The Church in its essence (Christ) is holy, but individual members can be, and often are, sinful, even dreadfully so. Yet God is always faithful and so, just as He did not abandon His Chosen (Holy) People the Jews, He will not abandon His Holy Church which is the Body of Christ, His Son, from Whom all holiness springs.

Many would prefer the company of only the holy, or at least of those who seek after a godly life, or at least are not known to have cheated on their wife, had an abortion, cheated on a test, drank too much beer the night before, or molested a child. We may frequently cringe when we consider just who it is sitting next to us in the pew; if we do this we have forgotten the parable of the wheat and the weeds – all grow up together until the time of harvest. We have also forgotten the patience of God and His desire to bring all sinners back to Himself through the Church He established.
 
The subjects were of great interest to me… …the differences in the catholic and orthodox traditions,and on how the popes were honored when the churches were united…Also how they and you viewed why chist had to die…ecclesiastical divorces versus annulment …how apostolic succession was recognized ,for orthodox only with in the church ,not out side the church …for catholics in or out of the church didn’t matter…other things as well…
The subject of the popes claiming to be god on earth was a eye opener…🤷 😛 😃
Yes I heard (after the fact) that there were some interesting discussions. I’m sorry that I didn’t join CAF earlier. 😦
 
You measure any religion by the teachings and the life of its founder, not by the mortals who follow and corrupt those teachings with their moral fallibility and sin. Catholicism is still about what Jesus said were the two greatest commandments, the teachings in the Sermon on the Mount, the willingness of Jesus to rescue the lepers and downtroden.

I prefer to think of the great people of Catholic history from St. Paul to Thomas Becket to Mother Thersa to the missionaries working throughout the world today and the numerous people that go to daily Mass… Are there a lot of notable Catholics in history who are failures and failed to follow Our Lord’s teachings? Of course. But focusing on them is not moving down the road in our quest to be more like Our Lord.
 
If i remember reading correctly he was old school educated catholic…then converted to orthodoxy and became a priest monk…he knows Catholicism better than you or i…and a very bright person…🤷 😛 😃
From my discussion with him, he didn’t understand Catholicism and/or misrepresented Catholic teaching either purposefully or out of ignorance on several occasions.

For instance, Fr. Ambrose once claimed “Pope Benedict allowed abortion up to 17 (seventeen) weeks.” When I asked him to produce the evidence, he either wouldn’t or couldn’t. He was more the type to thrust out false witness about Catholic teaching without bothering with verifiable supporting documentation.
 
I can’t remember that ,but i do remember there was a discussion that mentioned that nuns that were in Africa working, in case of rape were allowed birth control or even abortion by the Vatican to prevent pregnancy and child birth also probably in any third world country not just Africa…🤷 😛
 
I can’t remember that ,but i do remember there was a discussion that mentioned that nuns that were in Africa working, in case of rape were allowed birth control or even abortion by the Vatican to prevent pregnancy and child birth also probably in any third world country not just Africa…🤷 😛
Do you recall which thread? I seriously doubt that the Vatican approved abortion, even in a rape case. Perhaps the victims went ahead and had abortions without any kind of Vatican approval, and were later reconciled with the Vatican?
 
Do you recall which thread? I seriously doubt that the Vatican approved abortion, even in a rape case. Perhaps the victims went ahead and had abortions without any kind of Vatican approval, and were later reconciled with the Vatican?
I didn’t say the nun’s were raped…i said in case of rape ,a precautionary mesure only…they can take the birth control to prevent conception and if raped abortion was a secound option for them in case the pills didn’t work …🤷 :confused: :eek:
 
Do you recall which thread? I seriously doubt that the Vatican approved abortion, even in a rape case. Perhaps the victims went ahead and had abortions without any kind of Vatican approval, and were later reconciled with the Vatican?
I could of swore we were talking about the old eastern christianity forum,thats actully were i read it …🤷 :confused:
 
I didn’t say the nun’s were raped…i said in case of rape ,a precautionary mesure only…they can take the birth control to prevent conception and if raped abortion was a secound option for them in case the pills didn’t work …🤷 :confused: :eek:
I understand what your saying. But what I’m saying is I don’t believe the Vatican would ever approve that second option.
 
I can’t remember that ,but i do remember there was a discussion that mentioned that nuns that were in Africa working, in case of rape were allowed birth control or even abortion by the Vatican to prevent pregnancy and child birth also probably in any third world country not just Africa…🤷 😛
In case of rape, a non-aborticient treatment may be use (e.g. spermacide). However, abortion is never morally licit. See more here: usccb.org/prolife/issues/abortion/ecfact.shtml
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top