Catholic Hospitals, Bishops Reach Accord

[Catholic_Press]

(RNS) In the wake of public spats between the Catholic hierarchy andhealth care executives, the Catholic Health Association publiclyacknowledged that bishops – not doctors or hospital ethicists – havethe final say on questions of medical morality.

More…

 

[catharina]

(RNS) In the wake of public spats between the Catholic hierarchy andhealth care executives, the Catholic Health Association publiclyacknowledged that bishops – not doctors or hospital ethicists – havethe final say on questions of medical morality.

More…

from the article:

" … Keehan had backed the hospital in the dispute, saying it had correctly interpreted the Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services, a set of moral guidelines written by the USCCB.

In her letter, Keehan conceded that only a bishop’s interpretation of the Ethical and Religious Directives is authoritative. A bishop also has the right “to develop his own ethical and religious directives if he chooses,” Keehan wrote.

Dolan, too, underscored the point.

“Where conflicts arise, it is again the bishop who provides the authoritative resolution based on his teaching office,” he said.

“Once such a resolution of a doubt has been given, it is no longer a question of competing moral theories or the offering of various ethical interpretations or opinions of the medical data that can still be legitimately espoused and followed,” Dolan added. … "

This "concession" by sr. Carol Keehan is long overdue.
Hope that soon, she finds herself working in the archives
of her Community, studying the writings of the founders,
St. Vincent de Paul and St. Louise de Marillac.

This is a woman who needs to be removed 
from the public arena, ASAP.
IMO, of course.

 

[catharina]

I’ll also add:
Thanks be to God that this has finally
been brought to the proper conclusion.

Hurray for the Bishops - again.

:harp:

 

[Petergee]

Great, but “the bishop has the final say on all moral, doctrinal and governance issues” should have been the #1 rule for all Catholic hospitals and other institutions from day one.

Now can we hope for a similar “accord” from Catholic universities and schools? It’s appalling how often we have seen the administrators of “Catholic” educationl institutions indirectly and even directly defying their bishop’s instructions.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Great, but “the bishop has the final say on all moral, doctrinal and governance issues” should have been the #1 rule for all Catholic hospitals and other institutions from day one.

Now can we hope for a similar “accord” from Catholic universities and schools? It’s appalling how often we have seen the administrators of “Catholic” educationl institutions indirectly and even directly defying their bishop’s instructions.

Its shouldn’t be a surprise at all that Catholic doctors would deviate from a Bishop’s will on matters of medicine. Afterall, their medical licenses aren’t issued by Bishops; but by secular authorities. The Bishop doesn’t determine the fate of their medical license either when their ethics are questioned. I also don’t know how patients will react when they learn that a person who has no medical training is ultimately deciding their treatment.

 

[curlycool89]

Its shouldn’t be a surprise at all that Catholic doctors would deviate from a Bishop’s will on matters of medicine. Afterall, their medical licenses aren’t issued by Bishops; but by secular authorities. The Bishop doesn’t determine the fate of their medical license either when their ethics are questioned. I also don’t know how patients will react when they learn that a person who has no medical training is ultimately deciding their treatment.

I swear that I’ve seen this argument before. Oh right, substitute “government” for “bishops”, and it’s the exact same argument people made about the so-called “death panels”. And it’s just as ridicules.

This has nothing to do with medicine either. Abortion is a morally unacceptable option in all cases and it doesn’t take a doctor to know that.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

I swear that I’ve seen this argument before. Oh right, substitute “government” for “bishops”, and it’s the exact same argument people made about the so-called “death panels”. And it’s just as ridicules.

This has nothing to do with medicine either. Abortion is a morally unacceptable option in all cases and it doesn’t take a doctor to know that.

This has everything to with medicine. Abortions are medical procedures and medical ethics are decided by secular authorities not Bishops. If the doctors are forced to make a choice, and they will be, between bowing to the will of the Bishops and being stripped of their licenses for ethical misconduct or obeying the ethical requirements of the secular authorities; they will choose to keep their licenses. Killing the mother to save the fetus without her consent is ethically bankrupt and will unleash a tidal wave of malpractice lawsuits and ethical misconduct proceedings.

 

[catharina]

This has everything to with medicine. Abortions are medical procedures and medical ethics are decided by secular authorities not Bishops. If the doctors are forced to make a choice, and they will be, between bowing to the will of the Bishops and being stripped of their licenses for ethical misconduct or obeying the ethical requirements of the secular authorities; they will choose to keep their licenses. Killing the mother to save the fetus without her consent is ethically bankrupt and will unleash a tidal wave of malpractice lawsuits and ethical misconduct proceedings.

Nope. It will be as it was.

Some doctors will not be working in Catholic hospitals.
Other doctors will choose to work only in Catholic hospitals.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Nope. It will be as it was.

Not if the Bishop is deciding the fate of patients instead of a medical board. Catholic hospitals had their own medical boards of qualified medical professionals which made these decisions. No more apparently.

Some doctors will not be working in Catholic hospitals.
Other doctors will choose to work only in Catholic hospitals.

And some doctors working in Catholic hospitals will be slapped with wrongful death lawsuits and ethical misconduct proceedings if they kill a woman to save a fetus without her consent.

 

[catharina]

Not if the Bishop is deciding the fate of patients instead of a medical board. Catholic hospitals had their own medical boards of qualified medical professionals which made these decisions. No more apparently.

And some doctors working in Catholic hospitals will be slapped with wrongful death lawsuits and ethical misconduct proceedings if they kill a woman to save a fetus without her consent.

There are Catholic hospitals all over the USA.
The ethics must be in union with Catholic ethics
regarding the sanctity of life.
Since the abortion wave began,
Catholic hospitals have remained open.
Glad this issue has been resolved AGAIN
to the status quo -
there is nothing new in this, rather the very
wrong ideas of one Sister heven been corrected.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

There are Catholic hospitals all over the USA. The ethics must be in union with Catholic ethics regarding the sanctity of life.

The medical ethics must be in compliance with the secular medical authorities or licenses start getting yanked. A Catholic hospital won’t do much good if has no licensed physicians and is bankrupted by wrongful death lawsuits.

Since the abortion wave began, Catholic hospitals have remained open.

Because Catholic hospitals have performed medically necessary abortions.

 

[catharina]

The medical ethics must be in compliance with the secular medical authorities or licenses start getting yanked. A Catholic hospital won’t do much good if has no licensed physicians and is bankrupted by wrongful death lawsuits.

Because Catholic hospitals have performed medically necessary abortions.

There is no regulation insisting that
any doctor be willing to perform abortions.
That’s a basic fact. If as we have learned
a Catholic hospital has performed and abortion,
as happened in Phoenix, soon the hospital will find
that it is no longer a Catholic hospital.

It’s that simple.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

There is no regulation insisting that any doctor be willing to perform abortions.

Any legal expert will tell you that if a patient is faced with death or abortion, chooses the abortion, and dies because no doctor would perform the procedure; that doctor will face a wrongful death lawsuit and a hearing to determine the fate of his medical license. It is unethical to deliberately neglect a patient’s medical wishes, resulting in that patient’s death, because of your religious beliefs.

 

[catharina]

Any legal expert will tell you that if a patient is faced with death or abortion, chooses the abortion, and dies because no doctor would perform the procedure; that doctor will face a wrongful death lawsuit and a hearing to determine the fate of his medical license. It is unethical to deliberately neglect a patient’s medical wishes, resulting in that patient’s death, because of your religious beliefs.

That’s correct.

Most patients who choose Catholic healthcare
are aware that the “option” of abortion is a no go.

 

[Petergee]

Its shouldn’t be a surprise at all that Catholic doctors would deviate from a Bishop’s will on matters of medicine. Afterall, their medical licenses aren’t issued by Bishops; but by secular authorities. The Bishop doesn’t determine the fate of their medical license either when their ethics are questioned. I also don’t know how patients will react when they learn that a person who has no medical training is ultimately deciding their treatment.

A nonsensical red herring. This has nothing to do with what a doctor who happens to be a Catholic, does in his private medical practice (unless it has been specifically set up as a “Catholic Medical Practice”). The issue here concerns a hospital which was set up by the Catholic Church in order to provide care in accordance with Catholic doctrine. This fact has always been advertised and well known to everybody. Not to mention that thousands of Catholics (and non-Catholics) have no doubt donated millions of dollars to the hopital over the years to ensur tht there is a hospital in their town which provides genuine Catholic care for patients and won’t deliberately kill them.

Just as I wouldn’t go to an Adventist hospital and throw a tantrum because they refused to give me any meat, so I wouldn’t go to a Catholic hospital and throw a tantrum because they refused to abort my baby.

 

[Petergee]

Its shouldn’t be a surprise at all that Catholic doctors would deviate from a Bishop’s will on matters of medicine. Afterall, their medical licenses aren’t issued by Bishops; but by secular authorities. The Bishop doesn’t determine the fate of their medical license either when their ethics are questioned. I also don’t know how patients will react when they learn that a person who has no medical training is ultimately deciding their treatment.

A nonsensical red herring. This has nothing to do with what a doctor who happens to be a Catholic, does in his private medical practice (unless it has been specifically set up as a “Catholic Medical Practice”). The issue here concerns a hospital which was set up by the Catholic Church in order to provide care in accordance with Catholic doctrine. This fact has always been advertised and well known to everybody. Not to mention that thousands of Catholics (and non-Catholics) have no doubt donated millions of dollars to the hospital over the years to ensure that there is a hospital in their town which provides genuine Catholic care for patients and won’t deliberately kill them.

Just as I wouldn’t go to an Adventist hospital and throw a tantrum because they refused to give me any meat, so I wouldn’t go to a Catholic hospital and throw a tantrum because they refused to abort my baby.

 

[Petergee]

This has everything to with medicine. Abortions are medical procedures

The only thing “medical” about abortion i that it is often committed by people who are or call themselves doctors and nurses. The same vacuous “argument” is used when capital punihment is administered by doctors giving injection (even illogically swabbing the skin beforehand with antiseptic) to carry out the harade that the execution is some sort of merdical procedure.

and medical ethics are decided by secular authorities not Bishops.

Nonsense. Ethics are decided by each person’s conscience having considered all the circumstances… In the case of a Catholic this is primarily by following the directives of the Church, i.e. the pope and his bishop.

If the doctors are forced to make a choice, and they will be, between bowing to the will of the Bishops and being stripped of their licenses for ethical misconduct or obeying the ethical requirements of the secular authorities; they will choose to keep their licenses.

Even more nonsensical. Even in Victoria, which as far as I am aware is the only jurisiction in the world which has created the draconian legislation purporting to force a doctor to refer someone requesting an abortion to somebody who he knows will commit the abortion, the doctor or hospital is not required to commit the abortion himslef/itself on his/its own premises. And certainly even there no doctor has been threatened with deregistrration for refusing to refer for abortion.

Killing the mother to save the fetus without her consent is ethically bankrupt and will unleash a tidal wave of malpractice lawsuits and ethical misconduct proceedings.

Well said, that is exactly what the Catholic Church teaches.

 

[catharina]

The only thing “medical” about abortion i that it is often committed by people who are or call themselves doctors and nurses. The same vacuous “argument” is used when capital punishment is administered by doctors giving injection (even illogically swabbing the skin beforehand with antiseptic) to carry out the charade that the execution is some sort of merdical procedure.

Brilliant comparison. Thanks so much.