Catholic Husband, I'm the odd one out

[PennyinCanada]

Hi and Welcome to Catholic Answers.

Baptism. You might want to frame baptism as a community of people who love children, and who celebrate the birth of a baby. If you had a baby shower and a bunch of ladies came with gifts, held and cuddled the baby with big smiles, wouldn’t that be awesome? I’ve attended a few baptisms and the babies deserve to be the center of attention, welcomed and cherished. There’s something about a new baby that is special. Could that be a way of thinking of the event that seems more palatable to you?

Natural Family Planning is a way to understand your fertility and it is based on science. I had short and long cycles (stress can delay ovulation) and I could always tell when my ovulation was delayed and when it eventually happened because my period would show up at the expected time. As far as I’m concerned, every young lady would benefit knowing NFP because it’s a great tool for this very reason, and no one likes to have their period surprise them, which often happened to me. I wish I had known about it many years ago. There may be NFP classes in your area that you can take with your husband. Knowing when you are fertile and when you are not will be a benefit to your marriage. NFP can be done during breast feeding time after the birth of a baby too.

 

[without]

This, in my opinion, is the main problem. The OP married someone with whom she shared a worldview. Her husband has now changed his outlook, and in the process, is trying to make some fundamental changes in their marriage. As the one trying to change the rules, he needs to be the one to smooth the path for his wife. He should also be prepared for the possibility that she won’t be willing to play along in some respects - such as raising the children Catholic or following Catholic rules about birth control and sexuality.

 

[gravity]

I would sugest that you put a copy of Scott and Kimberly Hahns book, Rome Sweet Home in your husbands hands. By looking at how the two of them needed to interact your husband may see how your relationship needs to evolve.
I would encourage you to read it was well. This book was pivotal for me as I came to a fuller understanding of the Catholic Church.
Many Parishes gave this book out at Easter.

M

 

[AClaire11]

As far as attending Mass, your husband might simply want to feel supported. My husband is lapsed and I always feel sad when I’m at Mass all alone, surrounded by happy families. If you can put on a happy face, I’d say go just so he knows you support his choices, but if you will be visibly irritated or reluctant, that will be distracting and even more upsetting.

 

[Kaninchen]

As far as attending Mass, your husband might simply want to feel supported. My husband is lapsed and I always feel sad when I’m at Mass all alone, surrounded by happy families. If you can put on a happy face, I’d say go just so he knows you support his choices, but if you will be visibly irritated or reluctant, that will be distracting and even more upsetting.

The supporting of choices thing works both ways though, doesn’t it? He should put on an equally happy face if she tells him she wants nothing to do with it.

 

[DaisyNJesus]

I’m new to the forum, so sorry if this is the wrong section or anything it just seemed like the best place to post. A Catholic forum may not be the place to talk about this, but I’m sort of at my wits end and there aren’t really any people around me who I’d feel comfortable talking to.

So, I’m agnostic and up until about six months ago, my husband was an avowed atheist. Like, he’s actually done debates on religion and written articles and things and he’s been very adamant about it since I’ve known him. Then, right before Christmas when I was 8 months pregnant with our son, I was in a bad car accident and things were sort of touch and go with me and the baby for awhile. This apparently provoked a re-conversion experience for my husband, who said that he believes God answered his prayers in a very specific way and that he promised to return to the Church if we came out alright.

Ever since then things have been weird between us and getting worse. He goes to church every week, and he wants us to go as a family but I feel really weird about going and I can’t imagine keeping our son quiet through the whole thing, as he’s in sort of a noisy phase, so I haven’t been yet. His parents are thrilled, as he was sort of the problem child who left the faith, so we’ve been spending more time around them, which drives me nuts because his mom doesn’t like me at all and I have opposite opinions about pretty much everything from them so sitting through family gatherings with them is sort of equivalent to being a cat in a round room full of rocking chairs. There’s been a lot of talk about getting our son baptized lately, which I’m opposed to, so that’s led to a lot of arguments over the last few weeks and I’m kind of afraid that between my husband and his parents they might just do it anyway without my consent.

Seriously, you guys, it’s like every part of our relationship is suffering because of this. I don’t even mind if he wants to go back to being Catholic, but I wish he would leave me and our kid out of it. I feel like I’m kind of being turned into the bad guy over the whole baptism debacle, and other things keep coming up that just seem crazy to me, like birth control. I want to keep breastfeeding for awhile so I don’t want to use a hormonal BC and I’ve never been comfortable with the idea of a diaphragm or an IUD, but he won’t use condoms now, so we practically don’t have sex at all, which makes things worse. Also, something about our marriage needing to be validated (!!!). He’s a good husband and father to our son otherwise, and I do love him, but it’s frustrating and I feel like I’m married to a completely different person than the one I signed up for.

Any advice? I don’t mean to sound like I’m totally against Catholicism, I’m not, I’m just wary of religion as a whole and the sum of all this + new mommy stress is freaking me out.

Understandable you are upset and feel outside.
I can fully understand the joy and excitement of your husband, but I do not agree that he can just say; I have become religious, now I will take our child and baptise him.

No, its the same if he turned muslim and suddenly the whole muslim world says: He owns your common children now and he has the right to give them his religion and you don’t have any right to give them yours.

This would not be fair.

He must wait for you to agree. It is him who changed.
I personally hope you become a believer in Jesus and experience what your husband feels, but until then, he is the one who has changed, and he must respect you and the life you agreed to have together.

Hugs, Daisy

 

[AClaire11]

The supporting of choices thing works both ways though, doesn’t it? He should put on an equally happy face if she tells him she wants nothing to do with it.

Definitely. I was just offering one explanation for why he might push for her to come. But both parties need to show respect for the other’s choices.

 

[Vico]

I’m new to the forum, so sorry if this is the wrong section or anything it just seemed like the best place to post. A Catholic forum may not be the place to talk about this, but I’m sort of at my wits end and there aren’t really any people around me who I’d feel comfortable talking to.

So, I’m agnostic and up until about six months ago, my husband was an avowed atheist. Like, he’s actually done debates on religion and written articles and things and he’s been very adamant about it since I’ve known him. Then, right before Christmas when I was 8 months pregnant with our son, I was in a bad car accident and things were sort of touch and go with me and the baby for awhile. This apparently provoked a re-conversion experience for my husband, who said that he believes God answered his prayers in a very specific way and that he promised to return to the Church if we came out alright.

Ever since then things have been weird between us and getting worse. He goes to church every week, and he wants us to go as a family but I feel really weird about going and I can’t imagine keeping our son quiet through the whole thing, as he’s in sort of a noisy phase, so I haven’t been yet. His parents are thrilled, as he was sort of the problem child who left the faith, so we’ve been spending more time around them, which drives me nuts because his mom doesn’t like me at all and I have opposite opinions about pretty much everything from them so sitting through family gatherings with them is sort of equivalent to being a cat in a round room full of rocking chairs. There’s been a lot of talk about getting our son baptized lately, which I’m opposed to, so that’s led to a lot of arguments over the last few weeks and I’m kind of afraid that between my husband and his parents they might just do it anyway without my consent.

Seriously, you guys, it’s like every part of our relationship is suffering because of this. I don’t even mind if he wants to go back to being Catholic, but I wish he would leave me and our kid out of it. I feel like I’m kind of being turned into the bad guy over the whole baptism debacle, and other things keep coming up that just seem crazy to me, like birth control. I want to keep breastfeeding for awhile so I don’t want to use a hormonal BC and I’ve never been comfortable with the idea of a diaphragm or an IUD, but he won’t use condoms now, so we practically don’t have sex at all, which makes things worse. Also, something about our marriage needing to be validated (!!!). He’s a good husband and father to our son otherwise, and I do love him, but it’s frustrating and I feel like I’m married to a completely different person than the one I signed up for.

Any advice? I don’t mean to sound like I’m totally against Catholicism, I’m not, I’m just wary of religion as a whole and the sum of all this + new mommy stress is freaking me out.

I’m posting so you have an idea of the implications. He seeks to return to the sacraments by having a valid Catholic marriage, which requires proper consent and no other impediments, with the approval of the Catholic Church.

Catholic Natural Marriage (only one baptised so not a sacrament):

• Lifelong
• Exclusive
• Grant Proper Conjugal Act
• Raise Children Catholic

Radical Sanation or Simple Convalidation to make the marriage valid.

Radical Sanation:

• Use original consent, if not defective
• Dispensation for Disparity of Cult
• Dispensation from Catholic form of marriage.- Can. 1125 must be fulfilled (see below)

OR

Simple Convalidation:

• New marital consent is given
• Dispensation for Disparity of Cult - Can. 1125 must be fulfilled (see below)

CIC Canon Law Chapter Six Mixed Marriages

Can. 1124 Without express permission of the competent authority, a marriage is prohibited between two baptized persons of whom one is baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it after baptism and the other of whom is enrolled in a Church or ecclesial community not in full communion with the Catholic Church.

Can. 1125 The local ordinary can grant a permission of this kind if there is a just and reasonable cause. He is not to grant it unless the following conditions have been fulfilled:

1/ the Catholic party is to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith and is to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power so that all offspring are baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church;

2/ the other party is to be informed at an appropriate time about the promises which the Catholic party is to make, in such a way that it is certain that he or she is truly aware of the promise and obligation of the Catholic party;

3/ both parties are to be instructed about the purposes and essential properties of marriage which neither of the contracting parties is to exclude.​

 

[His_helpmeet]

I’m new to the forum, so sorry if this is the wrong section or anything it just seemed like the best place to post. A Catholic forum may not be the place to talk about this, but I’m sort of at my wits end and there aren’t really any people around me who I’d feel comfortable talking to.

So, I’m agnostic and up until about six months ago, my husband was an avowed atheist. Like, he’s actually done debates on religion and written articles and things and he’s been very adamant about it since I’ve known him. Then, right before Christmas when I was 8 months pregnant with our son, I was in a bad car accident and things were sort of touch and go with me and the baby for awhile. This apparently provoked a re-conversion experience for my husband, who said that he believes God answered his prayers in a very specific way and that he promised to return to the Church if we came out alright.

Ever since then things have been weird between us and getting worse. He goes to church every week, and he wants us to go as a family but I feel really weird about going and I can’t imagine keeping our son quiet through the whole thing, as he’s in sort of a noisy phase, so I haven’t been yet. His parents are thrilled, as he was sort of the problem child who left the faith, so we’ve been spending more time around them, which drives me nuts because his mom doesn’t like me at all and I have opposite opinions about pretty much everything from them so sitting through family gatherings with them is sort of equivalent to being a cat in a round room full of rocking chairs. There’s been a lot of talk about getting our son baptized lately, which I’m opposed to, so that’s led to a lot of arguments over the last few weeks and I’m kind of afraid that between my husband and his parents they might just do it anyway without my consent.

Seriously, you guys, it’s like every part of our relationship is suffering because of this. I don’t even mind if he wants to go back to being Catholic, but I wish he would leave me and our kid out of it. I feel like I’m kind of being turned into the bad guy over the whole baptism debacle, and other things keep coming up that just seem crazy to me, like birth control. I want to keep breastfeeding for awhile so I don’t want to use a hormonal BC and I’ve never been comfortable with the idea of a diaphragm or an IUD, but he won’t use condoms now, so we practically don’t have sex at all, which makes things worse. Also, something about our marriage needing to be validated (!!!). He’s a good husband and father to our son otherwise, and I do love him, but it’s frustrating and I feel like I’m married to a completely different person than the one I signed up for.

Any advice? I don’t mean to sound like I’m totally against Catholicism, I’m not, I’m just wary of religion as a whole and the sum of all this + new mommy stress is freaking me out.

To address your issues:

1. Yes, your marriage does need to be validated if he was a baptized Catholic and married outside the Church. However, if you do not wish to go through a formal ceremony, he can talk to the priest about what is called a “radical sanation”, literally a “healing at the roots”. This is a process in which the diocese validates your marriage retroactively through paperwork. You do not need to participate in or even be aware of the process.
2. Catholics believe that artificial birth control is an intrinsic moral evil. However, this does NOT mean that you need to have a million kids. Natural family planning is allowed if the couple has a grave reason for not having another child at this point (a grave reason is defined as the couple concluding that it would be detrimental to the welfare of themselves, their current children, and any future children, to have a baby right now - recent childbirth could be a grave reason). This is NOT the “rhythm” or “calendar” method, there are scientifically validated methods that work. If your baby is less than 6 months old and has been exclusively breastfed, and your period has not returned, you have about a 1-2% chance of pregnancy. You might look into the Creighton, Billings, Serena, or Marquette methods - these are scientifically valid (Creighton and Billings, at least, were actually developed by physicians) and use different techniques, such as cervical mucous, normal sensations, temperature, and fertility monitors to determine when you’re fertile. You’re usually only required to abstain for a few days a month - and it often has a beneficial effect on your marriage due to the communication required (the divorce rate for couples who use NFP is much lower than the general population).
3. In order for your son to be baptized, there must be a founded hope that he will be raised in the faith. In fact, for your marriage to be validated usually your husband is required to raise his child Catholic. I strongly suggest that you go and speak to the priest at the parish he attends to discuss your situation. I also suggest that you examine your beliefs and try and determine WHY you are wary of organized religion. Is there something particular to Catholicism that you have an issue with? You might want to find some books about the Catechism to find out exactly what is required of Catholics and what we believe.

 

[His_helpmeet]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I was kind of freaking out a little last night, probably due to lack of sleep and being on the tail end of an argument, so sorry if it all sounded a little histrionic.

I’m really not against him developing his faith or doing whatever he needs to do to be happy, and it has been six months, so it’s not like he just sprung all of this at once and expected me to be okay with it. It’s just hard to completely re-evaluate my marriage and try to figure out how to be parent at the same time. If it wasn’t something he was expecting me to participate in in more than cursory way, I wouldn’t mind at all. Issues of lack of belief aside, the idea of getting involved gives me a serious case of the feels because my parents were a secular Muslim and an Orthodox Jew respectively and the only thing it seems like they ever agreed about was that I could be anything I wanted except Christian. :doh2:

If the convalidation thing is really that important, I could probably do that, as long as I don’t have to convert or promise to raise our kids Catholic or anything, which I can’t really do in good conscience. For the baptism, though, I’m just not okay with it at this point. If our kid wants to be Catholic later, that would be fine, I guess, but I at least want him to be old enough to understand what’s going on. Ironically, that was something my husband used to really hate. He says that he wouldn’t baptize our son without my agreement, just that it’s very important to him so he hopes I’ll agree, but my in-laws talk about it like it’s an inevitability, which makes me really nervous.

He has suggested talking to the priest at his church about the whole thing, at least so I can understand better what all is involved with the convalidation and the baptism and so on, so I will probably do that. I don’t know, though, it feels like we used to be on the same side about all this and now we’re not so it’s just me against him and his family and it seems like talking to his priest would just be one more person to have to push against. I’ll give it a try, though, and marriage counseling might not be a bad idea either at this point.

Personally, I’m not adamant about not believing in a God, I just don’t see any evidence that would convince me that there is one, which is why I label myself an agnostic and not an atheist. My husband said the same thing as someone above about “Just ask God to show you he’s real. If he listened to my prayers and responded, and I was a lot more against believing in him than you, he’ll listen to you.” It’s just bizarro to hear something like that come out of his mouth, but it was the smallest thing I could do to make him happy so I asked for something specific as evidence and haven’t told anyone what it is. So, we’ll see I guess.

The problem with not raising your son in the faith and allowing him to “choose for himself” is that he may well choose not to practice ANY faith, because he has no grounding in it. This is why the Church generally forbids Catholics from marrying non-Catholics, though they may grant a dispensation if the Catholic party agrees to raise the children Catholic.

In terms of your parents - the most I can suggest is that you pray for them. You would not be the first convert whose parents have not supported their beliefs, nor are you likely to be the last.

 

[runningdude]

… He should also be prepared for the possibility that she won’t be willing to play along in some respects - such as raising the children Catholic or following Catholic rules about birth control and sexuality.

That is not quite true. Contraception is still a personal sin for the wife even as a non-Catholic. The husband should make every effort to get her cooperation, and refuse to use contraception himself, as he appears to be doing.

I post this quote a lot, because when there are difficult choices to make, God must always come first: “If any one comes to me without hating his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26-27).

Christ calls upon the husband to sacrifice his marriage if necessary for God. It need not come down to this. Framed positively, the husband must love God before all, but their is no upper limit to how much he can love God; thus no upper limit to how much he can love his family.

 

[Kaninchen]

That is not quite true. Contraception is still a personal sin for the wife even as a non-Catholic. The husband should make every effort to get her cooperation, and refuse to use contraception himself, as he appears to be doing.

I post this quote a lot, because when there are difficult choices to make, God must always come first: “If any one comes to me without hating his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26-27).

Christ calls upon the husband to sacrifice his marriage if necessary for God. It need not come down to this. Framed positively, the husband must love God before all, but their is no upper limit to how much he can love God; thus no upper limit to how much he can love his family.

Somehow it sounds like the preferences of the non-Catholic spouse get lost in all this.

 

[PaulGH]

For the baptism, though, I’m just not okay with it at this point. If our kid wants to be Catholic later, that would be fine, I guess, but I at least want him to be old enough to understand what’s going on. Ironically, that was something my husband used to really hate. He says that he wouldn’t baptize our son without my agreement, just that it’s very important to him so he hopes I’ll agree, but my in-laws talk about it like it’s an inevitability, which makes me really nervous.

Just to help us understand, why are you opposed to your child being baptized? Either baptism is what Catholics believe it is, or it isn’t. One way, baptism is the greatest gift you could possibly give to your child. The other way, it would be just an empty ceremony, but surely a harmless one too?

 

[SanguineRose]

The problem with not raising your son in the faith and allowing him to “choose for himself” is that he may well choose not to practice ANY faith, because he has no grounding in it. This is why the Church generally forbids Catholics from marrying non-Catholics, though they may grant a dispensation if the Catholic party agrees to raise the children Catholic.

See, this would be fine with me. And it was something my husband and I agreed on while I was pregnant, that if our kid ever decided to practice a religion of some sort we would support that even if we didn’t believe in it personally. But we both, up until things changed, didn’t believe in foisting religion on children until they were old enough to make an appropriate decision for themselves. Obviously, now, things are different, and he has explained that he’s sort of bound to try to raise our kids Catholic and that baptism is a part of that, but I still don’t really like the idea, even if I don’t believe anything substantial happens other than my son getting wet.

I also suggest that you examine your beliefs and try and determine WHY you are wary of organized religion. Is there something particular to Catholicism that you have an issue with? You might want to find some books about the Catechism to find out exactly what is required of Catholics and what we believe.

Well, for Catholicism, I just generally disagree with a lot of the positions the church takes on things like gay marriage, abortion, women, and so on and Christianity has always seemed like a really weird system to me, but that could be because I wasn’t raised with it. For religion in general, I could go on about why it bothers me, but the short version is just that it seems to be one more thing people use to berate, control, and abuse each other. The only thing they all seem to agree on it is that everyone else is wrong and that if you don’t do things their specific way, bad things will happen to you. That’s sort of what worries me most about my husband going back to the church, because my parents were cool with their religious differences until I came along and then suddenly they both wanted to raise me in their respective traditions and they fought about it a lot when I was kid. I don’t want something similar to happen with my kid, but I don’t want to have to pretend like I agree with my husband’s religion for the sake of our son either.

Oddly enough, someone above suggested Rome Sweet Home for reading material and my husband came home with a copy of it yesterday, so I will probably read that and go from there.

I talked to him about it a bit last night and I think we’ve reached a temporary compromise, though. We’ll make an appointment to talk to his priest about validating the marriage, but no baptism for the foreseeable future and he has to tell his parents to bud out on that score. Also, we’ll make a trial run to Mass next week. If it’s not too weird or too difficult to manage with our son and if he stops pestering me about it during the week, then we’ll go as a family at least a couple times a month and in exchange he’ll babysit for a couple hours every other week so I can get out of the house by myself for a little bit. As for the contraception thing, I’m going to look into NFP, but I’m skeptical. It sounds like a lot of work to keep up with.

 

[SanguineRose]

Just to help us understand, why are you opposed to your child being baptized? Either baptism is what Catholics believe it is, or it isn’t. One way, baptism is the greatest gift you could possibly give to your child. The other way, it would be just an empty ceremony, but surely a harmless one too?

To my way of thinking, a ceremony is never empty because even if the metaphysical aspects of the ceremony are bunk, the social aspects of the ceremony are not. If we baptize our kid Catholic, to my understanding, that means that my husband is even more obligated to raise the kid Catholic and it means his parents are going to take it for granted that we’re raising the kid Catholic and discount my opinions on raising my own child and push me to the margins even more than they already do. Other people will treat our kid as if he’s Catholic before he even got to make the decision to be Catholic. I’m not okay with that. I would be okay with the kid learning about Catholicism and being exposed to it, but I would rather he make a conscious decision to identify as Catholic of his own volition later.

 

[SecretCatholic]

See, this would be fine with me. And it was something my husband and I agreed on while I was pregnant, that if our kid ever decided to practice a religion of some sort we would support that even if we didn’t believe in it personally. But we both, up until things changed, didn’t believe in foisting religion on children until they were old enough to make an appropriate decision for themselves. Obviously, now, things are different, and he has explained that he’s sort of bound to try to raise our kids Catholic and that baptism is a part of that, but I still don’t really like the idea, even if I don’t believe anything substantial happens other than my son getting wet.

Well, for Catholicism, I just generally disagree with a lot of the positions the church takes on things like gay marriage, abortion, women, and so on and Christianity has always seemed like a really weird system to me, but that could be because I wasn’t raised with it.

Some people will choose a religious faith no matter what they grew up with. It just “clicks” with them and they convert from atheism or another religion. So religious belief is definitely not just dependent upon what you grew up in. However, there’s another way to look at it. Would your child be likely to appreciate and be interested in great literature as an adult if he didn’t grow up with it? It’s possible, but not likely. What about morality?

Secularism and Scientism are their own type of belief systems with their own moral values. Your stance on “gay marriage, abortion, women, and so” didn’t come from thin air or just from yourself. It came from the secular worldview, just as most Christians’ stances on these things also come form their own Christian world view. This is not to say that we’re not capable of thinking and deciding for ourselves, but human beings are not islands unto themselves and we are greatly influenced by those around us, and in these times, we are disproportionally influenced by commercial media and the viewpoints that are beneficial to those increasingly few who own the media, whether we realize it or not.

The secular world is not in any way neutral. They are all competing ideologues. We get “indoctrinated” into secularism by being exposed to it and growing up with it as children the same way we do with any religion. Catholicism is not a fundamentalist religion, so it is not close-off, but open to other ideas and thoughts, including science and technology. But secularism is becoming more and more fundamentalist, and it is increasingly hostile to religious thoughts and beliefs. In a lot of ways, Catholicism is much more open of a belief system than the secular, though every belief system has its boundaries, of course.

For religion in general, I could go on about why it bothers me, but the short version is just that it seems to be one more thing people use to berate, control, and abuse each other. The only thing they all seem to agree on it is that everyone else is wrong and that if you don’t do things their specific way, bad things will happen to you.

Isn’t that the crux of any belief? If it doesn’t rule other things out, it wouldn’t really be a belief system. For example, secular society (as well as Catholicism) agrees that racism is bad. It doesn’t say “it depends.” Now there is a pus for gay marriage, but polygamy is largely not accepted yet. Most people consider that its not a good thing. But if you have contrary views, the discussion gets very hostile, whether it merits it or not. Saying anything against gay marriage now is almost a hang-able offense. Secular society becomes very “intolerant” of alternative views and people use these stances to “berate, control, and abuse each other”.

That’s sort of what worries me most about my husband going back to the church, because my parents were cool with their religious differences until I came along and then suddenly they both wanted to raise me in their respective traditions and they fought about it a lot when I was kid. I don’t want something similar to happen with my kid, but I don’t want to have to pretend like I agree with my husband’s religion for the sake of our son either.

You definitely shouldn’t pretend. Be genuine in whatever you do. Your husband has a duty to understand you and both of you need to work this out, not impose things on one another.

I talked to him about it a bit last night and I think we’ve reached a temporary compromise, though.

Excellent! I wish you both a happy outcome and mutual growth together.

 

[runningdude]

Somehow it sounds like the preferences of the non-Catholic spouse get lost in all this.

Yes. The Catholic Church teaches that non-Catholic spouse’s beliefs are wrong, and calls her to seek the truth.

A relevant post from Father Serpa regarding contraception where one party is unwilling to refrain: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=12020258#post12020258

 

[runningdude]

Just to help us understand, why are you opposed to your child being baptized? Either baptism is what Catholics believe it is, or it isn’t. One way, baptism is the greatest gift you could possibly give to your child. The other way, it would be just an empty ceremony, but surely a harmless one too?

No!!! You are proposing Pascal’s Wager, which is rightly rejected by Catholics and Atheists alike.

Any honest parent who submits a child for baptism promises to raise the child Christian to the best of his or her ability. The original poster does not wish her children to be raised Christian; to allow her husband to baptize the children is at a minimum, a promise to not interfere and undermine his raising them in the Catholic Faith. She wishes to raise them in a secular environment, and at the time she and her husband had the children, this was their understanding.

The original poster here is right to be hesitant in consenting to a promise she might not be willing to keep. She is showing a great deal of respect to the faith by not treating Baptism as a roll of the dice!

 

[runningdude]

…Other people will treat our kid as if he’s Catholic before he even got to make the decision to be Catholic. I’m not okay with that. I would be okay with the kid learning about Catholicism and being exposed to it, but I would rather he make a conscious decision to identify as Catholic of his own volition later.

Based on my understanding, this is the usual course of action in these cases; baptism is differed until age 7 or later, when a child is considered sufficiently grown to ask for baptism on his own accord (with proper parental permission).

 

[SecretCatholic]

Another related thought:

Substance always fills emptiness or lack of substance. If you put something in a room, it can no longer be empty. You can’t have both an empty room and a room with things inside. So if you view secularism as a lack of specific beliefs, then of course, religious beliefs will rush in to fill that void. You cannot have both the lack of belief and the belief at once.

On the other hand, I do not think that secularism is truly a lack of belief. I believe it is a general belief system with its own values, which in some ways contradict Catholic moral values, which are based upon restraint and the idea that everything has a purpose, two beliefs which secularism staunchly opposes.

American secularism embraces a lack of restraint in one’s personal life and the idea that things in nature don’t really have a purpose, so its okay to do whatever we feel with it, as long as its consensual, which is why sexuality is seen as a free for all, something to just have fun with for the secular world, while Catholicism demands that we treat it as something that is oriented to a final goal (reproduction and spiritual bonding between man and woman).

So really its not a matter of “letting your child choose” one day. It’s not a neutral platform. Whatever you do. No matter whether you raise him Catholic, Buddhist or secular, you are already imprinting upon him certain values and beliefs by raising him in within that lifestyle. What he will pick up from the mainstream media and culture is just as ideologically bias as Catholic beliefs. In fact, I think in way, if you want your child to have a more “democratic” range of beliefs, raising him as Catholic would “tilt the scale” to a more neutral viewpoint, considering that atheism and materialist ideologies are heavily tilting the scale the other way in secular society.

Anyway, this is just another perspective on the matter I figured you might find useful.