Catholic Intellectuals

[Contarini]

philosophy.nd.edu/people/faculty-by-area/

Notre Dame receives the highest rankings for philosophy of religion in the Untied States, and many of their Philosophy faculty are both Catholic on on the leading edge of their respective specialty’s discussions.

In reverse, Robert Noll is an exceptionally brilliant Evangelical intellectual who left his alma mater, Wheaton, to work at Notre Dame because UND provides him “more freedom” to pursue his own research interests.

You mean Mark Noll?

Both he and the then president of Wheaton came to the campus of the college where I used to teach, and one of the faculty mischievously asked Noll (in front of President Litfin) about the then recent firing of a Wheaton faculty member for becoming Catholic. Noll was courteous but made it clear that he didn’t agree, and his response made it seem as if possibly this had had something to do with his shift.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Haha. God bless you. I like that we can have some humor and be comfortable even though we have some differences.

Indeed, my friend. God Bless you as well.

The moment we stop being able to have some fun and share what we can in Christ, is the moment we start being wrong.

 

[TRH1292]

Yes, a lot of smart protestants have become Catholic. But a lot more smart protestants remain protestants, I could name a hundred.

 

[kentcara2003]

That being said, my own study of history has made Protestantism untenable for me, leaving me with no recourse except to become Catholic (or possibly Orthodox) or cease to be Christian at all.

Edwin

The gift of Faith (“there is one Faith, one Lord and one Baptism”), the Catholic Faith, is a gift from Our Lord." No one can come to the Father except through Me." If we are catholics, we cannot lay any claim to our own personal efforts as if it was something we have attain to. If there was any effort made in searching for the Truth, it is but the guidance of grace which always goes before us. A gift. The only claim we can lay to is our lack of docility to the inspirations of the Holy Spirit, our fears and our weaknesses.

Your last sentence,"…no recourse except to become catholic…", really puts a smile on my face and a great hope that you will have courage to* take the obvious step forward…IN FAITH*. He has called you …will you say what Cardinal Newman has said,…“lead on kindly light?”

On the wings of reason and faith,(though it is always faith which informs reason and not vice-versa)., may our Lord bless you with this gift, as I wish for you what I wish for myself,…that we receive the fullness of the Gift of God, where is there no measure of our growth in love and truth in this life…Yet growth is only possible in this life…

Our Faith tells us that God, who is Infinite Love and Truth," desire all to come to the knowledge of Truth" as St Paul tells us. In other words all, Jew or gentile, and all peoples of goodwill of every faith is invited, without fear or prejudice. Though some like myself has received it at birth, others like yourself(see my hope?) at a later time. In the mystery of God’s ways, it matters not when we are called but how fervent we are in response to his gifts, which is without limits…

Make us know the shortness of our life that we may gain wisdom of heart.(Psalm)
God bless.
You and yours in my prayers
Kentcara2003(3rd order SSCC)

 

[RPRPsych]

There are intellectuals in every camp. If anything, a disproportionate presence of intellectuals could be an indicator of falsehood. Doesn’t it take more cleverness to rationalize something false than something true?

Nice try, but…

“You attacked reason. That’s bad theology.” - Father Brown, in G. K. Chesterton’s “The Blue Cross”

Of note: the current militant version of Islam has no intellectuals, only ideologues. And Hindu fundamentalist ideologues copy and paste from Christian and secular intellectuals at will to justify their practices. An intellectual who goes astray (cf. Kung, Hans; Fox, Matthew) can be silenced, censured or ignored. Not so a suicide bomber, an “honour” killer or a practitioner of “sacred” prostitution.

 

[RPRPsych]

Paul, Peter.

(runs and hides)

That being said, there are plenty of good Protestant intellectuals, even if they’re a bit overused in current “culture wars” (not their fault, really.) William Lane Craig and Alvin Plantinga come to mind.

 

[benjohnson]

That being said, my own study of history …] cease to be Christian at all.

Time to go drinking with us Lutherans! We’ll make sure sure your brain won’t get in front of your soul!

 

[RPRPsych]

In a certain sense, the study of history is an impediment to becoming Catholic. History is the study of ambiguities and complexities and mess. It makes it very hard to subscribe to any particular dogmatic, confessional pattern, since these often seem too “black and white.”

That being said, my own study of history has made Protestantism untenable for me, leaving me with no recourse except to become Catholic (or possibly Orthodox) or cease to be Christian at all.

Edwin

Good points.

A book like Eamon Duffy’s history of the Papacy (Saints and Sinners) can be an impediment, but it also sheds a valuable light, and the truth can set us free.

My own mini-study (ages 24-29) took me from Catholicism → Liberal Catholicism → “Catholic Universalism” → Catholic-flavoured secular humanism → Indifferentism → “Sola Scriptura” → right back to the Catholic Church, sort of like Chesterton’s story of a man who discovers an unknown land only to find it’s his own country.

 

[Contarini]

Time to go drinking with us lutherans! We’ll make sure sure your brain won’t get in front of your soul!

john wesley on luther after reading the galatians commentary:

how does he . . . Decry reason, right or wrong as the irreconcilable enemy of the Gospel of Christ? Whereas what is reason (the faculty so called) but the power of apprehending, judging, and discoursing? Which power is no more to be condemned in the gross than seeing, hearing, or feeling.

 

[GKC]

Good points.

A book like Eamon Duffy’s history of the Papacy (Saints and Sinners) can be an impediment, but it also sheds a valuable light, and the truth can set us free.

My own mini-study (ages 24-29) took me from Catholicism → Liberal Catholicism → “Catholic Universalism” → Catholic-flavoured secular humanism → Indifferentism → “Sola Scriptura” → right back to the Catholic Church, sort of like Chesterton’s story of a man who discovers an unknown land only to find it’s his own country.

I do wish he had written that story.

GKC

 

[GKC]

But it factually isn’t true. I know a lot of folks who are a lot deeper in history than I am and have no desire to be Catholic.

In his context it was a reasonable statement. There’s a certain kind of “Whig” view of church history that was common among Protestants of his day (and is still very popular among less educated Protestants) and is dispelled by the study of history. But just to name a few people who have remained Protestants while being great historians:

Heiko Oberman
David Steinmetz
John Van Engen
Nathan Hatch
Mark Noll
George Marsden
George Williams
Herbert Butterfield
. . . . the list could go on and on

In a certain sense, the study of history is an impediment to becoming Catholic. History is the study of ambiguities and complexities and mess. It makes it very hard to subscribe to any particular dogmatic, confessional pattern, since these often seem too “black and white.”

That being said, my own study of history has made Protestantism untenable for me, leaving me with no recourse except to become Catholic (or possibly Orthodox) or cease to be Christian at all.

Edwin

Yep. Complexities and messes and train wrecks, all over the place.

GKC

 

[Peter_J]

“To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.”

But it factually isn’t true. I know a lot of folks who are a lot deeper in history than I am and have no desire to be Catholic.

It must be kept in mind that in Cardinal Newman’s day, Catholics and Protestants were much more at-each-other’s-throats than we are today. In particular, I think it’s possible that for Newman, deciding to remain Protestant is just as bad as leaving Catholicism for Protestantism.

P.S. But more to the point, did Newman ever comment on his own assertion? I’ve seen tons of comments on it from others, but never one from him.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Good points.

A book like Eamon Duffy’s history of the Papacy (Saints and Sinners) can be an impediment, but it also sheds a valuable light, and the truth can set us free.

My own mini-study (ages 24-29) took me from Catholicism → Liberal Catholicism → “Catholic Universalism” → Catholic-flavoured secular humanism → Indifferentism → “Sola Scriptura” → right back to the Catholic Church, sort of like Chesterton’s story of a man who discovers an unknown land only to find it’s his own country.

I do wish he had written that story.

GKC

Did Chesterton write it, or someone else?

 

[GKC]

Did Chesterton write it, or someone else?

Chesterton said that he had thought of writing it. In the introduction to ORTHODOXY. He was making a comment about his writing of that book.

GKC

 

[AbideWithMe]

Chesterton said that he had thought of writing it. In the introduction to ORTHODOXY. He was making a comment about his writing of that book.

GKC

I’m sure I’ve read a whole story similar to what RPRPsych referenced. I’m thinking George MacDonald wrote it? I was just searching for it via Google but I can’t find it.

 

[GKC]

I’m sure I’ve read a whole story similar to what RPRPsych referenced. I’m thinking George MacDonald wrote it? I was just searching for it via Google but I can’t find it.

I’ve read a fair amount of MacDonald (because of Lewis, ya know), but I don’t recall anything like that. If you get lucky, let me know.

GKC

 

[RPRPsych]

I do wish he had written that story.

GKC

So do I! He alludes to it in Orthodoxy. I take it you’re a fan of his?

 

[AbideWithMe]

I’ve read a fair amount of MacDonald (because of Lewis, ya know), but I don’t recall anything like that. If you get lucky, let me know.

GKC

I will. MacDonald is one of the chief reasons I still am a Christian, and at peace about remaining a Christian, despite some long-running intellectual doubts, so I probably should visit with him for my own sake. Unfortunately I don’t have all his stories, though I think I’ve read his entire fictional output.

 

[GKC]

I will. MacDonald is one of the chief reasons I still am a Christian, and at peace about remaining a Christian, despite some long-running intellectual doubts, so I probably should visit with him for my own sake. Unfortunately I don’t have all his stories, though I think I’ve read his entire fictional output.

You’re ahead of me there. I haven’t read more than 5-6 of his long fiction. Got a 2 vol. set of the short fiction that might be nearly complete. But it’s packed away.

GKC

 

[GKC]

So do I! He alludes to it in Orthodoxy. I take it you’re a fan of his?

Been a massive Chesterton collector for nigh onto 50 years now. Own just about everything published as by him. Save, for some odd reason, THE GLASS WALKING STICK.

I do that sort of thing for a number of my favorites.

GKC