Catholic Leader: Obama Abortion Position in the 'Minority'

[gam197]

[How many years have we heard Fr. Richard McBrien speak as a dissident on so many issues and guess who Fox News gets to take the other side against Fr. Pavone but Fr.McBrien. He is a priest that should have been defrocked along with Hans Kung or at least not been allow to speak for the church or write books… .

Even if Obama is in the minority on the issue, supporters of his address Sunday on the Notre Dame campus say that’s no reason to protest his visit.

The Rev. Richard McBrien, a theology professor at Notre Dame, told “FOX News Sunday” that the invitation “in no way” connotes support for all his positions. But he said Obama stands with the Catholic Church on other key issues.

“There are other positions he has taken, whether it’s on immigration or poverty or whatever, which are entirely consistent with Catholic social teaching,” he said. “If we required 100 percent agreement with the Catholic Church of official teaching from everyone who speaks at or gets an honorary degree from a Catholic University we would not then have any politician from either party.”

foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/17/catholic-leader-obama-abortion-position-minority/

 

[Theotician]

“If we required 100 percent agreement with the Catholic Church of official teaching from everyone who speaks at or gets an honorary degree from a Catholic University we would not then have any politician from either party.”

So, his belief is that rather than standing up for the truth and not honoring a politician in such a way, we should adapt and be more accepting of the culture around us? While I’m all for loving people regardless of beliefs/actions, I’m pretty sure we are still supposed to exhort them towards righteousness, and definitely not honor a person when they are clearly in the moral wrong…

 

[timotheos]

I saw this too this AM. How very sad indeed for ND.

So next year I guess they could invite Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, 'cause he says he’s for justice.

-Tim

 

[bloodofchrist]

I truly think some people liberals become priest to bring the church down,Most priest are great though this is a shame.

 

[Jersey_Jeepster]

“If we required 100 percent agreement with the Catholic Church of official teaching from everyone who speaks at or gets an honorary degree from a Catholic University we would not then have any politician from either party.”

And why would this be a bad thing?

The bigger issue here is: Why is Father McBrien still a Catholic priest?

 

[Fitz]

Fr. McBrien is always consulted on TV stations when they WANT to show a Catholic church divided. It is really disgusting.

 

[timotheos]

From an interview in the Boston Globe:

boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/12/28/a_talk_with_the_rev_richard_p_mcbrien/?page=2

McBRIEN: (…) I mean obviously I’m liberal if you define liberal stands as being open to the ordination of women, feeling that abortion shouldn’t be a litmus test defining whether one is a good Catholic or not. I’m very much against the policy of a certain handful of bishops to threaten to deny Communion to Catholic Democrats (…)

I think anyone who wonders why we have a Majesterium in the Church, this may explain it.

-Tim

 

[Elizabeth502]

“If we required 100 percent agreement with the Catholic Church of official teaching from everyone who speaks at or gets an honorary degree from a Catholic University we would not then have any politician from either party.”

And why would this be a bad thing?

The bigger issue here is: Why is Father McBrien still a Catholic priest?

No. The bigger issue is: Why did and does ND grant legitimate (vs. honorary) degrees to thousands of ND graduating seniors who also support Roe v. Wade – a percentage estimated at between 40 and 50% of the student body? As to the argument that a President is in a public position to exert more influence on the issue, that’s a matter of – no pun intended – degree. How does anyone know if any ND student, any graduating year, has, while an undergraduate, supported pro-choice efforts, whether via legislation or via personal cooperation?

That said, I think that the poster has a point that inviting no politicians would dramatically reduce, if not abolish, controversy. I happened to have graduated from a secular university, a very liberal one. Yet most of the time academics, scientists, and civic leaders not holding legislative office are those invited to speak: people prominent in education, in race relations, alumni with remarkable accomplishments, as well as international figures.

It may be better (more prudent, more appropriate) overall to restrict invitations to Catholic educational institutions to those who are not career politicians at all. There are many inflammatory issues in addition to abortion & embryonic stem cell research, so in a way, McBrien is answering his own question by extension.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

No. The bigger issue is: Why did and does ND grant legitimate (vs. honorary) degrees to thousands of ND graduating seniors who also support Roe v. Wade – a percentage estimated at between 40 and 50% of the student body? As to the argument that a President is in a public position to exert more influence on the issue, that’s a matter of – no pun intended – degree. How does anyone know if any ND student, any graduating year, has, while an undergraduate, supported pro-choice efforts, whether via legislation or via personal cooperation?

That said, I think that the poster has a point that inviting no politicians would dramatically reduce, if not abolish, controversy. I happened to have graduated from a secular university, a very liberal one. Yet most of the time academics, scientists, and civic leaders not holding legislative office are those invited to speak: people prominent in education, in race relations, alumni with remarkable accomplishments, as well as international figures.

It may be better (more prudent, more appropriate) overall to restrict invitations to Catholic educational institutions to those who are not career politicians at all. There are many inflammatory issues in addition to abortion & embryonic stem cell research, so in a way, McBrien is answering his own question by extension.

Such a response as well as Father McBrien’s denies the gravity of the evil of abortion. To work around conflict is to cover up how horrific this evil is. Instead Catholic instiitutions should invite those who are vocally opposed to intrinsic evil, who can make the point. They chose the opposite.

What is appropriate is what was published. Restrict honoarary degrees from people who have consciences so dead they believe that killing an innocent child is a choice. Confront them or shun them, but killing children needs to stop.

 

[KathleenElsie]

“If we required 100 percent agreement with the Catholic Church of official teaching from everyone who speaks at or gets an honorary degree from a Catholic University we would not then have any politician from either party.”

So, his belief is that rather than standing up for the truth and not honoring a politician in such a way, we should adapt and be more accepting of the culture around us? While I’m all for loving people regardless of beliefs/actions, I’m pretty sure we are still supposed to exhort them towards righteousness, and definitely not honor a person when they are clearly in the moral wrong…

That would be OK with me and my family. Why should we lower the standards of Holy Mother Church because we want politicians to be honored?

 

[Elizabeth502]

Such a response as well as Father McBrien’s denies the gravity of the evil of abortion.

It does no such thing. It acknowledges that Notre Dame is honoring today, and has honored in the past, pro-choice seniors by the hundreds. it also acknowledges that Catholic institutions would do well to stay away entirely from political speakers if it wishes to avoid moral controversy. In previous posts I have stated that ND could have continued the previous tradition of a speech by the sitting President, but not offered the degree. That was an option they chose not to follow.

 

[Jersey_Jeepster]

It does no such thing. It acknowledges that Notre Dame is honoring today, and has honored in the past, pro-choice seniors by the hundreds. it also acknowledges that Catholic institutions would do well to stay away entirely from political speakers if it wishes to avoid moral controversy. In previous posts I have stated that ND could have continued the previous tradition of a speech by the sitting President, but not offered the degree. That was an option they chose not to follow.

I think you make a very astute observation, and one that I have neither thought of nor heard anyone else bring to front. For decades, Notre Dame has honored and given degrees to many pro-choice students. One of the reasons for this is that Notre Dame is not a completely Catholic university. The student body is made up of secular students, as well as Catholic students who do not pratice their Catholicism and who may not know anything about Catholic doctrine.

I think that institutions of learning that want to reflect a wholly (or Holy, for that matter) Catholic identity need to be relegated to universities like Steubenville. It’s either all or nothing, as far as I see it.

I am also disturbed by the fact that the Vatican has taken a “no comment” position on this controversy. Now, more than ever, we need the Vatican to clear up controversies and misunderstood doctrinal issues.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

I think you make a very astute observation, and one that I have neither thought of nor heard anyone else bring to front. For decades, Notre Dame has honored and given degrees to many pro-choice students. One of the reasons for this is that Notre Dame is not a completely Catholic university. The student body is made up of secular students, as well as Catholic students who do not pratice their Catholicism and who may not know anything about Catholic doctrine.
.

An HONORARY degree is a choice the university makes. Providing degrees for students in higher education does not require paying students to be Catholic is a service not an honor, not does it signify approval of a person when they EARN a degree. An honorary degree is a choice by the university publically stating “we approve of this person; we honor them.” That is entirely different then a student who pays for and earns a degree.

They are entirely different things; hence, the directive prohibiting HONORING pro-abortion people.

 

[stuartsfeather]

I think you make a very astute observation, and one that I have neither thought of nor heard anyone else bring to front. For decades, Notre Dame has honored and given degrees to many pro-choice students. One of the reasons for this is that Notre Dame is not a completely Catholic university. The student body is made up of secular students, as well as Catholic students who do not pratice their Catholicism and who may not know anything about Catholic doctrine.

I think that institutions of learning that want to reflect a wholly (or Holy, for that matter) Catholic identity need to be relegated to universities like Steubenville. It’s either all or nothing, as far as I see it.

I am also disturbed by the fact that the Vatican has taken a “no comment” position on this controversy. Now, more than ever, we need the Vatican to clear up controversies and misunderstood doctrinal issues.

Yes your last paragraph is what strikes into my heart, the lack of a strong vocal and public message direct from “the Holy Father” himself. This is no time for being wishy washy or riding the fence. If I had my way the church would completely excommunicate each and every priest and other religous that does not uphold 100% the teachings and decisions of the magisterum.

That JERK Jenkins is (I do not regard him as a father of anything except that of lies) lied on world wide T.V. when he during the middle of his long admiration and political speech concerning Obama, made the statement that OBama had stopped in the middle of his very important presidential campaign to rush to the side of his dying grandmother. My God does he think that the majority of us did not follow that campaign and know that he waited until the very end to do that? Jenkins showed himself clearly for what he is and that is a *** KISSER!!!

 

[Mark77]

“So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth.” (Rev 3:16).

Jesus did not throw Judas out, He allowed Judas to carryout his treachery to serve as an example to everyone as to why we must choose Truth, not the convenient lies of our immoral society!

**"While he was still speaking, there came a crowd, and the man called Judas, one of the twelve, was leading them. He drew near to Jesus to kiss him; but Jesus said to him, “Judas, would you betray the Son of man with a kiss?” (Lk 22:47-48). **

We must listen to the Holy Spirit, we must not listen to the lies of those who would deceive us!!!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[Jersey_Jeepster]

An HONORARY degree is a choice the university makes. Providing degrees for students in higher education does not require paying students to be Catholic is a service not an honor, not does it signify approval of a person when they EARN a degree. An honorary degree is a choice by the university publically stating “we approve of this person; we honor them.” That is entirely different then a student who pays for and earns a degree.

They are entirely different things; hence, the directive prohibiting HONORING pro-abortion people.

It is my belief that if a school wants to tout a Catholic identity, then it has to remain faithful to Catholic doctrine.

Catholic grammar schools and high schools are private institutions that allow only Catholics to enroll. Colleges that advertise, and, indeed, flaunt a so-called Catholic identity should follow suit.

We see the mess that ensues when colleges do not follow suit.

 

[tap11]

“Fr.” McBrien has long been a source of embarrassment for traditional Catholics. His continued appearance on television is one of the many reasons I am discouraged by the refusal of the hierarchy to censure those who speak publicly in defiance of settled Church teaching. That refusal, along with a lack of personal responsibility, is the reason we have so many laity confused about what the Church teaches.

Did anyone see the priest who appeared on Hannity tonight? I have seen him around before, but have never thought he should be censured. That changed tonight, he was every bit the co-conspirator of McBrien. At least Hannity, who I often think is a bit of a blowhard, challenged him saying that he was representing moral relativism (comparing the war in Iraq to abortion).

 

[Catholic_Johnny]

So called “Father” O’Brien also dimissed the Church’s position as being “pro-birth, and not pro-life” as though his marxist liberal statist position was the ‘real’ pro-life position.

Then he attempted to align Obama’s statist agenda with the Church’s social teaching! Our Church has never, ever supported socialism and in fact a long line of Pontiffs explicitly rejected it in Papal Encyclicals!

1. For, indeed, although the socialists, stealing the very Gospel itself with a view to deceive more easily the unwary, have been accustomed to distort it so as to suit their own purposes, nevertheless so great is the difference between their depraved teachings and the most pure doctrine of Christ that none greater could exist: "for what participation hath justice with injustice or what fellowship hath light with darkness?"7
2. Even family life itself, which is the cornerstone of all society and government, necessarily feels and experiences the salutary power of the Church, which redounds to the right ordering and preservation of every State and kingdom. For you know, venerable brethren, that the foundation of this society rests first of all in the indissoluble union of man and wife according to the necessity of natural law, and is completed in the mutual rights and duties of parents and children, masters and servants. You know also that the doctrines of socialism strive almost completely to dissolve this union; since, that stability which is imparted to it by religious wedlock being lost, it follows that the power of the father over his own children, and the duties of the children toward their parents, must be greatly weakened.

****QUOD APOSTOLICI MUNERIS (On Socialism)********Pope Leo XIII ****

 

[bookgirl32]

I am also disturbed by the fact that the Vatican has taken a “no comment” position on this controversy. Now, more than ever, we need the Vatican to clear up controversies and misunderstood doctrinal issues.

Really? I wasn’t aware they officially offered this position. Interesting.

 

[Holly3278]

How very sad. Lord have mercy!