Catholic leader rejects 'Jewish state'

[Muzhik]

gtr5.com/

Israel attacked American sailors.

RomanCrusader ahd Wifeandmomoftwo,

You need to read “Foxbats Over Dimona” to get the full story on that. Simply put, in 1967 the Soviets were pushing for a middle-east war between Israel and any of their Arab allies. This would give them an excuse to send in supplies, send in troops, and invade Israel. The battle plan to be executed by the Egyptians, with the Jordanians and the Syrians, was crafted entirely by the Kremlin.

The “Foxbats” in the title are MiG-25s, the latest and greatest supersonic fighter of the time. (America didn’t come up with a response to the Foxbat until 1973.) It was also top secret, and was revealed at the Paris Air Show later that year only because the Soviets figured that after using the Foxbat in the 1967 War, America had figured out what that new aircraft was. (We hadn’t.) The Soviet Union was using these aircraft to fly reconnaissance missions over the nuclear reactor at Dimona before the war.

When the war broke out, the Soviet Union followed the plan and sent large numbers of surface ships carrying troops and supplies to the region. The plan was to wait for the Syrian army to reach Haifa, whereupon the Soviet Navy would land troops and supplies to “support our Syrian brothers in their fight against Zionism.” In other words, they were going to invade Israel. The troops were aboard the landing vessels and were about two hours away from landing when they were ordered to immediately turn back to their ships. Someone noticed that the Syrians were nowhere near Haifa and that a ceasefire was about to be declared.

The key is that the Soviets not only sent surface ships but also sent several submarines. A Soviet nuclear submarine on the surface is about the same size as the Liberty. One of the things that could not be explained is why the radar technician put the speed of the target at 30 knots when the Liberty’s speed was 60 knots. 30 knots is the cruising speed of a Soviet nuclear submarine on the surface. Although those parts of the Soviet Navy records are still off-limits, the reasonable assumption is that the original radar contact was not with the Liberty, but with a Soviet submarine that was tailing or trying to stay within range of the Liberty so that the Soviets could tap into what the Americans were analyzing. The submarine would have needed to be on the surface in order to do that effectively and in order to transmit their findings back to Moscow. The Liberty had no intel that there were Soviet submarines in the area, or they might have been looking for them. The American Navy was still a day away – we had pulled them back to the western edge of the Mediterranean in order to “avoid provocation” with the Soviets, and so they had no intel that the Soviets were already in the area, or they would have warned the Liberty.

There’s a reason why they call it “The Fog of War.”

 

[Muzhik]

Any favor God had with the Jews died when they crucified his son, now all believers in Christ are the chosen people of God,

That’s called “replacement theology”, and while it has not (to my knowledge) been explicitly rejected by the Church, the actions of recent Popes have caused it to fall out of favor.

To assume that G_D will take promises made to the Jews and substitute Christians for the Jews because of actions that the Jews have taken means that G_D can break a promise. I hope you agree that Holy Scripture makes it known that G_D does not break promises; that G_D **cannot **break promises, since that would be a contradiction of His nature. So the promises made by G_D to Abraham, Isaac, and all the Patriarchs regarding the Jews are still in effect. Romans 11:1-2 tell us, “I ask, then, has God rejected his people? Of course not! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew.” Later that same chapter tells us that we Christians are not the root of the olive tree; rather, we are wild olive shoots grafted onto the Jewish olive tree and so share in the Jewish roots.

Sha-alu Shalom Yirushalayim

 

[planter654]

And Israel has the proof of ownership of the land in the scriptures. In fact, God says in his prophecy that he will and is bringing them back out of all nations to resettle the land for one purpose only-for them to repent and turn back to him and him only. And this will come into fulfillment when Jesus comes back. I don’t care who calls themselves a believer in scripture, to deny this biblical truth is to try to pull the rug out on Gods prophecy, who is batting a 1.000 with his prophecy. All glory and praise to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob!

And to think, this “leader” Sabbah, who is supposed to be knowledgable in God’s word, is denying what God spoke and is working against it. This leader seeks for temporal earthly peace. He would rather see the Jews dispersed and the “Holy Land” run by Islam.

This is Catholic leader has just joined those in the world that would rather denounce, debunk, and make whoever disbelieve that God would take these people, undeserving of such promises, and to take them out from the world where they profaned his holy name, and bring them back in their land, not for the peoples of Israel sake, but for Gods name sake. This leader has just joined those in the world that would rather teach the Israelites themselves that they are of no prophetic biblical signifigance, and they must follow the ways of world or be punished worldly rather than to teach them to show the Israelites from their scriptures what God has done for them and that they all need to repent and turn to God to see who he really is.

I found this on the web. Looking for info on google " ISRAELITE HERITAGE" and " HEBREWS OF AFRICA". You can click on title topics on side of page.

Where Abraham, Moses came from in the beginning. Interesting info explain the 10 tribes etc.

God Bless

 

[lukewarm]

That’s called “replacement theology”, and while it has not (to my knowledge) been explicitly rejected by the Church, the actions of recent Popes have caused it to fall out of favor.

To assume that G_D will take promises made to the Jews and substitute Christians for the Jews because of actions that the Jews have taken means that G_D can break a promise. I hope you agree that Holy Scripture makes it known that G_D does not break promises; that G_D **cannot **break promises, since that would be a contradiction of His nature. So the promises made by G_D to Abraham, Isaac, and all the Patriarchs regarding the Jews are still in effect. Romans 11:1-2 tell us, “I ask, then, has God rejected his people? Of course not! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew.” Later that same chapter tells us that we Christians are not the root of the olive tree; rather, we are wild olive shoots grafted onto the Jewish olive tree and so share in the Jewish roots.

Sha-alu Shalom Yirushalayim

He never broke the promise it was simply open to the gentiles to and anyone who would accept his son, all humanity not just people who happened to come from a certain tribe. This parable explains my position:

9 Then he proceeded to tell the people this parable. "(A) man planted a vineyard, leased it to tenant farmers, and then went on a journey for a long time.
10 At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenant farmers to receive some of the produce of the vineyard. But they beat the servant and sent him away empty-handed.
11 So he proceeded to send another servant, but him also they beat and insulted and sent away empty-handed.
12 Then he proceeded to send a third, but this one too they wounded and threw out. **
13 The owner of the vineyard said, 'What shall I do? I shall send my beloved son; maybe they will respect him.’ **
14 But when the tenant farmers saw him they said to one another, **‘This is the heir. Let us kill him that the inheritance may become ours.’ **
15 So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. 3 What will the owner of the vineyard do to them?
16 He will come and put those tenant farmers to death and turn over the vineyard to others." When the people heard this, they exclaimed, “Let it not be so!”
17 But he looked at them and asked, “What then does this scripture passage mean: **‘The stone which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone’? **
**18 Everyone who falls on that stone will be dashed to pieces; and it will crush anyone on whom it falls.” **
19 The scribes and chief priests sought to lay their hands on him at that very hour, but they feared the people, for they knew that he had addressed this parable to them.

Any Christian who still believes that Israel and Jerusalem is rightfully the Jews by some tribal blood lineage or accepts zionism is not understanding or accepting this passage. The Jews (by birth or conversion) are not hiers to anything, the children of God are. God’s promise started with two people, then a family, then a tribe, then a nation. It’s only natural that it would be opened up to the rest of the world. Jews don’t have a monopoly on God.

 

[planter654]

He never broke the promise it was simply open to the gentiles to and anyone who would accept his son, all humanity not just people who happened to come from a certain tribe. This parable explains my position:

9 Then he proceeded to tell the people this parable. "(A) man planted a vineyard, leased it to tenant farmers, and then went on a journey for a long time.
10 At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenant farmers to receive some of the produce of the vineyard. But they beat the servant and sent him away empty-handed.
11 So he proceeded to send another servant, but him also they beat and insulted and sent away empty-handed.
12 Then he proceeded to send a third, but this one too they wounded and threw out. **
13 The owner of the vineyard said, 'What shall I do? I shall send my beloved son; maybe they will respect him.’ **
14 But when the tenant farmers saw him they said to one another, **‘This is the heir. Let us kill him that the inheritance may become ours.’ **
15 So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. 3 What will the owner of the vineyard do to them?
16 He will come and put those tenant farmers to death and turn over the vineyard to others." When the people heard this, they exclaimed, “Let it not be so!”
17 But he looked at them and asked, “What then does this scripture passage mean: **‘The stone which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone’? **
**18 Everyone who falls on that stone will be dashed to pieces; and it will crush anyone on whom it falls.” **
19 The scribes and chief priests sought to lay their hands on him at that very hour, but they feared the people, for they knew that he had addressed this parable to them.

Any Christian who still believes that Israel and Jerusalem is rightfully the Jews by some tribal blood lineage or accepts zionism is not understanding or accepting this passage. The Jews (by birth or conversion) are not hiers to anything, the children of God are. God’s promise started with two people, then a family, then a tribe, then a nation. It’s only natural that it would be opened up to the rest of the world. Jews don’t have a monopoly on God.

Jacob is Israel. God changed the name of Jacob to Israel it is not a country, do you think God is talking aboutbut the 10 tribes of Israel.

When Jesus returns his chosen people from all the nation, the 10 tribes of God will be greater than the land they have now, don’t you think. We are all God children who believe through out the nations of the world. Israel ( country name) is not the Israel God is speaking about in the bible. God is not talking about land, he is talking about his children Israel ( Jacob) When I look in the bible map the land God gives them is greater than what they have now. It is all divided by the names of the 10 tribes.

But not till all the gentles are in. Jesus Christ was not crucified for a piece of land was he? For God is the creator and owner of all things seen and not seen. Israel is his chosen people their are Israelites, hebrews. Jesus was a Hebrew. Moses was a Hebrew. we all come now from the seed of Abraham through Jesus Christ.

Thanks God Bless

 

[planter654]

Jacob is Israel. God changed the name of Jacob to Israel it is not a country, do you think God is talking aboutbut the 10 tribes of Israel.

When Jesus returns his chosen people from all the nation, the 10 tribes of God will be greater than the land they have now, don’t you think. We are all God children who believe through out the nations of the world. Israel ( country name) is not the Israel God is speaking about in the bible. God is not talking about land, he is talking about his children Israel ( Jacob) When I look in the bible map the land God gives them is greater than what they have now. It is all divided by the names of the 10 tribes.

But not till all the gentles are in. Jesus Christ was not crucified for a piece of land was he? For God is the creator and owner of all things seen and not seen. Israel is his chosen people their are Israelites, hebrews. Jesus was a Hebrew. Moses was a Hebrew. we all come now from the seed of Abraham through Jesus Christ.

Thanks God Bless

 

[planter654]

planter654:
I do not know but wonder about this?

God Bless

 

[planter654]

I do not know but wonder about this?

God Bless

 

[planter654]

planter654:
I could be an American because I live in America, but I am a Christian. A Canadian because I live in Canada, but I am a Christian etc.

thanks

 

[planter654]

planter654:
The promises God gave he will do, that is all that I am saying. All the earth belongs to God does it not? What God promise to give to whom it will be done. Was it not a covedent God made?

God Bless

 

[reggieM]

To assume that G_D will take promises made to the Jews and substitute Christians for the Jews because of actions that the Jews have taken means that G_D can break a promise.

God kept his promise within the Catholic Church which is the New Jerusalem. There’s no need for a State of Israel. God merely expanded his promise to include more than just a single racial group. The chosen people are those who embrace God’s Messiah – Christ, within the Church He founded.

God’s promises are also contingent on faith. It’s not a matter of having some kind of earthly kingdom that counts. It’s the spiritual seed of Abraham that was manifested in perfection in Christ. That is the fulfillment of Judiasm.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The statement is, to me, not unlike the statements of those Christians in Lebanon who try to maintain some semblance of (temporary) good relations with Hezbollah by taking their side of arguments when they don’t mean it. It’s motivated by fear. One can criticize Jews in Israel or anywhere else without fear of yourself or yours being killed for it. One cannot oppose the Moslem point of view without endangering oneself and others. I can’t read the bishop’s mind, but it would take a lot to convince me he didn’t say what he said because of the fear he (rightly) has for seeming in any way to favor Israel. Not likely for himself, but for the endlessly harrassed Christians who live in Moslem-dominated places nearby. Remember, all the Pope had to do was quote some Byzantine emperor who criticized Moslem violence, and the Moslem world exploded with expressions of hate and violence against Christians. This poor bishop sees his people as captives, not of Israel, but of Islam.

 

[Steeltemplar]

gtr5.com/

Israel attacked American sailors.

Yes, that is true and it is terrible.

However, if we were to judge every nation by past wrongs, I think only the Vatican City would be clean.

Consider America itself. The United States has done as much evil as Israel, one might argue. In WW2, the United States murdered a very large number of innocent civilians through the use of firebombs and then the atomic weapons. The atomic bombing of Nagasaki even wiped out a significant portion of Japan’s Catholic population.

So what I am saying is that Israel’s government now is not the same one as it was at that time. They have some severe sins of the past, but they can change now and in the future.

 

[Arnobius]

For those who are using the Bible to condemn the Jews, they may wish to keep in mind Nostra Aetate

1. As the sacred synod searches into the mystery of the Church, it remembers the bond that spiritually ties the people of the New Covenant to Abraham’s stock.

Thus the Church of Christ acknowledges that, according to God’s saving design, the beginnings of her faith and her election are found already among the Patriarchs, Moses and the prophets. She professes that all who believe in Christ-Abraham’s sons according to faith (6)-are included in the same Patriarch’s call, and likewise that the salvation of the Church is mysteriously foreshadowed by the chosen people’s exodus from the land of bondage. The Church, therefore, cannot forget that she received the revelation of the Old Testament through the people with whom God in His inexpressible mercy concluded the Ancient Covenant. Nor can she forget that she draws sustenance from the root of that well-cultivated olive tree onto which have been grafted the wild shoots, the Gentiles.(7) Indeed, the Church believes that by His cross Christ, Our Peace, reconciled Jews and Gentiles. making both one in Himself.(8)

The Church keeps ever in mind the words of the Apostle about his kinsmen: “theirs is the sonship and the glory and the covenants and the law and the worship and the promises; theirs are the fathers and from them is the Christ according to the flesh” (Rom. 9:4-5), the Son of the Virgin Mary. She also recalls that the Apostles, the Church’s main-stay and pillars, as well as most of the early disciples who proclaimed Christ’s Gospel to the world, sprang from the Jewish people.

As Holy Scripture testifies, Jerusalem did not recognize the time of her visitation,(9) nor did the Jews in large number, accept the Gospel; indeed not a few opposed its spreading.(10) Nevertheless, God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their Fathers; He does not repent of the gifts He makes or of the calls He issues-such is the witness of the Apostle.(11) In company with the Prophets and the same Apostle, the Church awaits that day, known to God alone, on which all peoples will address the Lord in a single voice and “serve him shoulder to shoulder” (Soph. 3:9).(12)

Since the spiritual patrimony common to Christians and Jews is thus so great, this sacred synod wants to foster and recommend that mutual understanding and respect which is the fruit, above all, of biblical and theological studies as well as of fraternal dialogues.

True, the Jewish authorities and those who followed their lead pressed for the death of Christ;(13) still, what happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ.

Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel’s spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.

Besides, as the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation. It is, therefore, the burden of the Church’s preaching to proclaim the cross of Christ as the sign of God’s all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows.

1. We cannot truly call on God, the Father of all, if we refuse to treat in a brotherly way any man, created as he is in the image of God. Man’s relation to God the Father and his relation to men his brothers are so linked together that Scripture says: “He who does not love does not know God” (1 John 4:8).

No foundation therefore remains for any theory or practice that leads to discrimination between man and man or people and people, so far as their human dignity and the rights flowing from it are concerned.

The Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against men or harassment of them because of their race, color, condition of life, or religion. On the contrary, following in the footsteps of the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, this sacred synod ardently implores the Christian faithful to “maintain good fellowship among the nations” (1 Peter 2:12), and, if possible, to live for their part in peace with all men,(14) so that they may truly be sons of the Father who is in heaven.(15)

 

[planter654]

God kept his promise within the Catholic Church which is the New Jerusalem. There’s no need for a State of Israel. God merely expanded his promise to include more than just a single racial group. The chosen people are those who embrace God’s Messiah – Christ, within the Church He founded.

God’s promises are also contingent on faith. It’s not a matter of having some kind of earthly kingdom that counts. It’s the spiritual seed of Abraham that was manifested in perfection in Christ. That is the fulfillment of Judiasm.

I agree we all who believe are from the seed of Abraham, Issac, Issrael ( Jacob).

God will bring the Israelites home that was his promise to Israel all of us.

God Bless

 

[Lev23]

gtr5.com/

Israel attacked American sailors.

Since you bring up a single event for everybody to condemn Israel as a nation, then Google the SS St.Louis. Before Israel became a nation again, the US denied this ship full of European Jewish families to dock, thus sending them back to Europe to face the Nazis.

 

[wifeandmomoftwo]

Since you bring up a single event for everybody to condemn Israel as a nation, then Google the SS St.Louis. Before Israel became a nation again, the US denied this ship full of European Jewish families to dock, thus sending them back to Europe to face the Nazis.

I think that was CUBA that sent them back to Hitler and his co-horts.
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/stlouis.html

 

[planter654]

Since you bring up a single event for everybody to condemn Israel as a nation, then Google the SS St.Louis. Before Israel became a nation again, the US denied this ship full of European Jewish families to dock, thus sending them back to Europe to face the Nazis.

Please I was not talking about a nation or country or any intentions like that. Only reading the bible which I have no understanding, but only reading and pondering when, God changed Jacob’s name to “Israel” and that a country now in 1948, thanks be to God! I am not sure of the date, also is the same name as Israel. How 10 tribes came out of Israel ( Jacob) that is all I was pondering. And how all these “10 tribes” over generations and generations are all scatter over all nations!

Thank You God Bless

 

[planter654]

God kept his promise within the Catholic Church which is the New Jerusalem. There’s no need for a State of Israel. God merely expanded his promise to include more than just a single racial group. The chosen people are those who embrace God’s Messiah – Christ, within the Church He founded.

God’s promises are also contingent on faith. It’s not a matter of having some kind of earthly kingdom that counts. It’s the spiritual seed of Abraham that was manifested in perfection in Christ. That is the fulfillment of Judiasm.

Thanks that is what I was trying to say. Thank you. You can tell I am no nothing in speaking or writting down my thoughts in a more polished manner.

God Bless… There are many days when my speech comes out backwards, like the road is on the truck. My family laughs they are use to this, they understand my limits.

 

[childofmary1143]

Despite what Israel may or may not have done it isn’t something that the Patriarch should be talking about. He is a Catholic Prelate and I don’t know why he feels compelled to talk about it.