Catholic leaders gather to counter decline of faith

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Perhaps, but the vast majority of Catholics aren’t church goers either. So, looks like both extremes are ineffective when it comes to filling the pews. The big difference is that Catholic doctrine requires Catholics to attend mass while Episcopalians do not have that obligation so it would seem that the Catholic Church is actually in a bigger rut.
It’s a rate of change thing. The catholic church hasn’t seen this sort of decline in attendence over the same period of time. In any event, I was responding to a poster that said the church need to get behind gay marriage to avoid losing members. As such, your comment is not quite on point.
 
Perhaps, but the vast majority of Catholics aren’t church goers either. So, looks like both extremes are ineffective when it comes to filling the pews. The big difference is that Catholic doctrine requires Catholics to attend mass while Episcopalians do not have that obligation so it would seem that the Catholic Church is actually in a bigger rut.
The Catholic Church looked to be in an even bigger rut during the times of persecution in Rome, when being fed to lions and wild beasts.

This proved that the blood of martyrs was indeed the seed of the Church.
 
It’s a rate of change thing. The catholic church hasn’t seen this sort of decline in attendence over the same period of time. In any event, I was responding to a poster that said the church need to get behind gay marriage to avoid losing members. As such, your comment is not quite on point.
But that is the point. Modern Christians like throwing tradition to the wind, playing loosey goosey with the rules, and having tangible and sense-based inspirational experiences in worship. That is the reason why mass attendance is so low and why nothing will change for the Catholic Church; people find it boring and too serious and intellectual. People think that worship should have some measure of fun to it. Short of changing doctrine; the only thing the Church hierarchy can do is either roll back Vatican II and start enforcing the rules or invent some form of worship that is consistent with doctrine while appealing to modern Christians. I can guarantee you that trying to scare people back into the fold won’t work.
 
… most popular churches seem to be those like World Harvest and The Vineyard which have modern services and congregations with a grab-bag of beliefs in terms of what it means to be Christian.
Perhaps these churches are only temporarily benefiting from transiency between mainline churches and secularism - traffic going both ways perhaps? It would be more telling to survey for longevity rather than simple numbers.

Regardless, Jesus’ advice was: Enter through the narrow gate.
 
The Catholic Church looked to be in an even bigger rut during the times of persecution in Rome, when being fed to lions and wild beasts.

This proved that the blood of martyrs was indeed the seed of the Church.
There’s a secularization trend that is effecting almost all religons in western societies. The Catholic Church is fairing better than most, at least in the US, but not as well as the chrismatics, evangelicals, and mormons…

Will the trend go on indefinately? Social trends continue, until they don’t. If predicting the future was as easy as extrapolating trends indefinitely, predicting the future would be a very simple matter, and I’d be flying to work tomorrow in a jet pack.

Personally, I feel we are at the end stages of what started in the 50’s and 60’s, but we’ll see. The groundwork has been set for a catholic revivial, I feel, over the last 20 years. The key thing is to be able to speak with a coherent voice…and I’m begining to sense the Church has regained hers in recent years.
 
Perhaps these churches are only temporarily benefiting from transiency between mainline churches and secularism - traffic going both ways perhaps? It would be more telling to survey for longevity rather than simple numbers. Regardless, Jesus’ advice was: Enter through the narrow gate.
The Catholic Church can, at times, seem very intimidating and the worship services archaic to a lot of people. That is a struggle that the Church will have to address if it wants to increase mass attendance and conversion. People flock to non-denominational churches like the Vineyard because their congregations tend to be open, welcoming, and nonjudgmental. Sadly, that hasn’t been the experience of many people in terms of mass.
 
Our parish has 4500registered famlies. Roughly 13,000 total.Wehave one Sat Mass and four on Sunday.All. Masses are packed to overflowing.So,you couldn’t prove it by the size of my parish that The Church is struggling to keep it’s members:😉
 
Unless Catholicism changes its views on birth control and gay marriage it will keep losing members to secularism. And since that won’t happen, nothing will change.
Maybe so. And maybe society (aka secularism) after a few more decades of shattered lives and misery will change ITS views on birth control and gay marriage, re-embrace the Catholic (and correct and universally true) views, and those ‘lost sheep’ will return home.

Falsehood has a certain glamour, but there is always, always, a ‘rot’ at the core of the ‘sweetness’ and people will, in time, recognize that. Truth can seem harsh, but there is always, always, an eternal life-giving sweetness at the core of the ‘hardness’. And people will, in time, recognize that as well.
 
But that is the point. Modern Christians like throwing tradition to the wind, playing loosey goosey with the rules, and having tangible and sense-based inspirational experiences in worship. That is the reason why mass attendance is so low and why nothing will change for the Catholic Church; people find it boring and too serious and intellectual. People think that worship should have some measure of fun to it. Short of changing doctrine; the only thing the Church hierarchy can do is either roll back Vatican II and start enforcing the rules or invent some form of worship that is consistent with doctrine while appealing to modern Christians. I can guarantee you that trying to scare people back into the fold won’t work.
I agree with much of what you write above. It’s not about the Church’s doctrine being too servere…chrismatic worship appeals to folks in the present age in a way that it didn’t in the past. Although there is a chrismatic catholic movement, I’ve always suspected it difficult to reconcile with a liturgical approach. This is something for the Church to come to grips with.
 
The problem resides in the family itself. Without a strong catholic family structure, there can be no hope of seriously propagating the faith. If we hand down the faith to our children, maybe we as catholics would vote and live according to our faith. In which case neither Obama or Romney would be electable.

Our government has been effective through the media and public education system to propagate ideas that break down the catholic family unit which is the only thing that stands in the way of the culture of death.
 
Falsehood has a certain glamour, but there is always, always, a ‘rot’ at the core of the ‘sweetness’ and people will, in time, recognize that. Truth can seem harsh, but there is always, always, an eternal life-giving sweetness at the core of the ‘hardness’. And people will, in time, recognize that as well.
I think only some people will see the truth and embrace it ultimately in this situation. There is nothing that guarantees that catholicism will ever flourish once it’s effectively extinguished. Look at North Africa, most of the Middle East and Scandinavia. These places were once catholic but lost the faith and still have never returned. Another good example is Nestorian Christianity which once spread across India, Mongolia and China but is now nearly completely gone.
 
I read somewhere once that 'people don’t care how much you know, unless they know how much you care"

Maybe the CC needs to look at some of the more Evangelical Churches and their approach to community building. The CC really isn’t into all that. If you come to the church and somehow ‘force’ yourself to be part of a ministry you can actually meet other Catholics and have fellowship(however minimal). Otherwise not much. And if you don’t show up it really does not matter to anyone.

Only 1,2 things that can spur growth…i see is by having more truly Catholic based universities(like Franciscan Steubenville) or more support for the Charismatic renewal.

People need to feel part of a community and fed constantly for change to happen.
 
This is a good thing.
  1. No one knows the exact number of Practicing Catholics.
  2. I heard a priest on Catholic Radio declare that the Church leadership knows the Church - right now - will become smaller. Filling the pews is not the whole goal. Faith without works is dead. Today, I saw people standing on street corners as part of “40 Days For Life” with signs that included: “Pray to end Abortion.”
  3. So, no, it’s not about numbers like the number of people who belong to any group going up and down. The Church is concerned to reach non-Catholics, Catholics who, for whatever reason, have left the Church, and helping to make sure that Catholics understand their faith.
  4. This whole thing did not happen overnight. It took 40 years to get here. It is the job of the laity to witness the faith and give the answers that the Church gives us to others - Catholics and non-Catholics alike. We are in no position to say that it’s only a “management” problem or only a problem among lay Catholics. As one Church leader put it: “We can’t do it all by ourselves.”
  5. Comparisons are always a bad idea, even when comparing one individual to another.
  6. If you make a list that includes most, as in 99%, of the problems facing Catholics and non-Catholics - the only conclusion to be drawn is that problem one is the misuse of sex and that includes life in the womb. The Church, and God, does not coerce. We all get a choice. The Church, and God, wants us to make the right choices.
A) Artificial birth control. Allow me to be blunt. Why? Does a small part of your body and the drug-like high of orgasms control us, or are we in control?

"National Review reported that ‘out of 23 studies on the effects of increased access to ECs, not one study could show a reduction in unintended pregnancies or abortions’

"Research arm of Planned Parenthood, Guttmacher Institute showed a simultaneous increase in contraception use and teen abortion rate in the US, Denmark, Cuba, Singapore, the Netherlands, and South Korea

"Guttmacher says 55%-60% of women getting an abortion are on contraception

"Sex ed program in Scotland over 3 years, scientists discovered it did not delay intercourse, improve use of contraceptives or reduce pregnancies or abortions. The government decided to continue the program because students reported feeling less regret about the first time they slept with their most recent partner

“In England in 1999 the government put £15 million to sex education, Students where offered condoms, morning after pills, while having ‘safe sex education’ in schools. In March 2004 they found that STD rates had gone up 64%, teens pregnancies where also up, some areas experience 34% overall leap. The greatest increases where in areas where the program had been implemented.”

B) Embryonic stem cell destruction for research purposes. EVERYONE reading this began life as a human embryo.

C) Women are being exploited as never before. In the 1970s, Adult Bookstores opened everywhere, along with topless bars and strip clubs. Why? For those who wanted to replace “Religion is the opiate of the masses” with “Orgasms are the new opiate of the masses.” Most porn is made by and for men.

Again, is a small part of your body going to control you? Why?

D) Cohabitation was a big scandal beginning in the late 1960s and 1970s. The anarchists, Hippies and perverts wanted it and they wanted it to be taught to everyone that it’s OK.

E) Right now, on TV. Two people have ‘just sex’ like using the toilet.

F) Artificial insemination. It does work but let’s just forget about those unused embryos and throw them out or use them in embryonic stem cell research.

THE DIGNITY OF THE HUMAN PERSON HAS BEEN CONSTANTLY ERODED AS THE DECADES PASSED.

No-Fault Divorce in the 1980s. Hey, what’s the big deal? It’s nobody’s fault anymore.

In the 1990s, the misnamed baby boomers were getting old. This was their last chance to go to town, fill their houses with stuff and Par - Tay!

By the 1990s, I drove past a Church with this sign. “Ch rch. The only thing missing is U.” Yep, I saw the Church parking lots empty and the mall parking lots fill up. Malls became the new places of worship and stuff was your reward. Fortunately, one house can only hold so much stuff.

In the background, the atheists, the secular humanists and the ACLU were trying to pass laws. The ACLU suddenly discovered religious monuments near or in public buildings. THAT’S UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!

And - get this - they told us that they were protecting our religious freedom. Like the local town where store owners put speakers on the outside of their buildings so people could hear Christmas music as they walked by. But guess what? The City Council of that town passed an ordinance: you could play the music but not the words. So, the music from Silent Night meant nothing if you didn’t hear the words.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg people. Sins of the flesh – good, good. Pleasure – good, good. Listening to the Church? Why bother?

No guilt.

No shame.

Women treated more like sex objects than ever before.

Abortion? No big deal.

Cohabitation with sex? No big deal.

Divorce for whatever reason and more than once? No big deal. (And no, I’m not talking about women, including women I know, who were badly abused. I’m talking about people who are on marriage number three right now, as if they learned nothing from divorce number one, much less divorce number two.)

Porn? We love porn and masturbating.

Who’s in control? That’s the question. The Church won’t force you and God won’t force you.

Peace,
Ed
 
This is a good thing.
  1. No one knows the exact number of Practicing Catholics.
  2. I heard a priest on Catholic Radio declare that the Church leadership knows the Church - right now - will become smaller. Filling the pews is not the whole goal. Faith without works is dead. Today, I saw people standing on street corners as part of “40 Days For Life” with signs that included: “Pray to end Abortion.”
  3. So, no, it’s not about numbers like the number of people who belong to any group going up and down. The Church is concerned to reach non-Catholics, Catholics who, for whatever reason, have left the Church, and helping to make sure that Catholics understand their faith.
  4. This whole thing did not happen overnight. It took 40 years to get here. It is the job of the laity to witness the faith and give the answers that the Church gives us to others - Catholics and non-Catholics alike. We are in no position to say that it’s only a “management” problem or only a problem among lay Catholics. As one Church leader put it: “We can’t do it all by ourselves.”
  5. Comparisons are always a bad idea, even when comparing one individual to another.
  6. If you make a list that includes most, as in 99%, of the problems facing Catholics and non-Catholics - the only conclusion to be drawn is that problem one is the misuse of sex and that includes life in the womb. The Church, and God, does not coerce. We all get a choice. The Church, and God, wants us to make the right choices.
A) Artificial birth control. Allow me to be blunt. Why? Does a small part of your body and the drug-like high of orgasms control us, or are we in control?

"National Review reported that ‘out of 23 studies on the effects of increased access to ECs, not one study could show a reduction in unintended pregnancies or abortions’

"Research arm of Planned Parenthood, Guttmacher Institute showed a simultaneous increase in contraception use and teen abortion rate in the US, Denmark, Cuba, Singapore, the Netherlands, and South Korea

"Guttmacher says 55%-60% of women getting an abortion are on contraception

"Sex ed program in Scotland over 3 years, scientists discovered it did not delay intercourse, improve use of contraceptives or reduce pregnancies or abortions. The government decided to continue the program because students reported feeling less regret about the first time they slept with their most recent partner

“In England in 1999 the government put £15 million to sex education, Students where offered condoms, morning after pills, while having ‘safe sex education’ in schools. In March 2004 they found that STD rates had gone up 64%, teens pregnancies where also up, some areas experience 34% overall leap. The greatest increases where in areas where the program had been implemented.”

B) Embryonic stem cell destruction for research purposes. EVERYONE reading this began life as a human embryo.

C) Women are being exploited as never before. In the 1970s, Adult Bookstores opened everywhere, along with topless bars and strip clubs. Why? For those who wanted to replace “Religion is the opiate of the masses” with “Orgasms are the new opiate of the masses.” Most porn is made by and for men.

Again, is a small part of your body going to control you? Why?

D) Cohabitation was a big scandal beginning in the late 1960s and 1970s. The anarchists, Hippies and perverts wanted it and they wanted it to be taught to everyone that it’s OK.

E) Right now, on TV. Two people have ‘just sex’ like using the toilet.

F) Artificial insemination. It does work but let’s just forget about those unused embryos and throw them out or use them in embryonic stem cell research.

THE DIGNITY OF THE HUMAN PERSON HAS BEEN CONSTANTLY ERODED AS THE DECADES PASSED.

No-Fault Divorce in the 1980s. Hey, what’s the big deal? It’s nobody’s fault anymore.

In the 1990s, the misnamed baby boomers were getting old. This was their last chance to go to town, fill their houses with stuff and Par - Tay!

By the 1990s, I drove past a Church with this sign. “Ch rch. The only thing missing is U.” Yep, I saw the Church parking lots empty and the mall parking lots fill up. Malls became the new places of worship and stuff was your reward. Fortunately, one house can only hold so much stuff.

In the background, the atheists, the secular humanists and the ACLU were trying to pass laws. The ACLU suddenly discovered religious monuments near or in public buildings. THAT’S UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!

And - get this - they told us that they were protecting our religious freedom. Like the local town where store owners put speakers on the outside of their buildings so people could hear Christmas music as they walked by. But guess what? The City Council of that town passed an ordinance: you could play the music but not the words. So, the music from Silent Night meant nothing if you didn’t hear the words.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg people. Sins of the flesh – good, good. Pleasure – good, good. Listening to the Church? Why bother?

No guilt.

No shame.

Women treated more like sex objects than ever before.

Abortion? No big deal.

Cohabitation with sex? No big deal.

Divorce for whatever reason and more than once? No big deal. (And no, I’m not talking about women, including women I know, who were badly abused. I’m talking about people who are on marriage number three right now, as if they learned nothing from divorce number one, much less divorce number two.)

Porn? We love porn and masturbating.

Who’s in control? That’s the question. The Church won’t force you and God won’t force you.

Peace,
Ed
Beautiful! :extrahappy::knight1:
 
The New Evangelization is needed now more than ever before I feel. I really wonder if there has ever been an apostasy so bad as the one we are currently facing. Perhaps there has been but it probably wasn’t as well known as it is today. The current apostasy is of course well known because of the advent of the Internet and worldwide television.
 
I suppose that being that I live in the Great Plains in the United States, where church attendance and religious belief is still quite high, I may not see the true problem, but still, at my university, we actually are having to build another level for the Catholic church on campus because Masses are overflowing with people.
 
I suppose that being that I live in the Great Plains in the United States, where church attendance and religious belief is still quite high, I may not see the true problem, but still, at my university, we actually are having to build another level for the Catholic church on campus because Masses are overflowing with people.
That is a trend I’m hearing about. Those who live in more rural areas tend to attend Mass more. A close friend who lives in such an area told me the same thing.

Peace,
Ed
 
Unless Catholicism changes its views on birth control and gay marriage it will keep losing members to secularism. And since that won’t happen, nothing will change.
Churches with liberal views on birth control and homosexual marriage are losing members. It is Churches wih a more Biblical view on birth control and homosexual marriage whose members are increasing
 
That is a trend I’m hearing about. Those who live in more rural areas tend to attend Mass more. A close friend who lives in such an area told me the same thing.
Could it be just that families that care more about quality living populate rural areas more than urban? That was my choice when my family was young and growing.
 
The problem resides in the family itself. Without a strong catholic family structure, there can be no hope of seriously propagating the faith.
I agree 100% but how do we get back to strong Catholic families? I clearly remember Catholic families in my parish rupturing back in the 70s. What was happening around the time of the meltdown and what has it taken the few strong Catholic families to remain. The answers to these questions are varied.
Readily available and acceptable divorce
Readily available birth control
Lack of quality Catholic education for all
Mass exodus of men from priesthood
Popular media such as LIFE magazine also fed into the collapse. I’ve read a few vintage magazines that testify to this. Media was having an ever increasing sway on the American Catholic about then.
These things and more were all harbingers to the collapse of Catholic families.
What has kept some Catholic families strong?
Answers to this are varied.
What do you think?
 
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