Catholic leaders gather to counter decline of faith

[iloveangels]

I think the best quote for Cardinal Dolan is “Physician heal thyself” -with leaders like him, count on this movement going nowhere. He is a part of the problem - not the solution.

lifesitenews.com/news/usccb-president-cardinal-dolan-celebrates-catholicism-of-vp-picks-biden-and

That article is a complete disconnect from reality, but i have no idea whether it’s the author of the article that’s disconnected, as I suspect it is, or the content. The Cardinal didn’t write this hodgepodge.

At any rate, both Ryan and Biden were picked for the positions they’re in for their political skills and experiences. Both of them have been baptized Catholic but no matter how they regard their faith, they’re being used as pawns in the “Catholic bloc” game that politicians play to try to get votes. Let’s not be naive.

I have no idea which of them is more “Catholic” and I’m not judging. But I don’t expect to see either of them to pop up with the stigmata anytime soon, or break out in a roaring rendition of Handels’ Allelujiah Chorus during prime time. This is American politics, not a canonization proceeding.

Personally, I always dislike all this hoopla around Catholic candidates. I’m often relieved when someone just runs on their record and is a pretty decent guy. Aka. Reagan etc. It’s politics.

And one thing we agree on heartily: Thinking of this thing in political terms is part of the problem, not part of the solution. In fact, it’s a huge part of the problem!

 

[iloveangels]

Are there 2600 at each Mass?

Sarah x

I’d be interested in the answer to this question too.

Based on the demographics and latest polling information, I’ll bet about 600 show up on average, more at popular times, less at less popular times.

The “crack of dawn” Sunday mass is going to be the least popular mass probably; the late morning mass will probably be the most popular.

 

[atheistgirl]

I’d be interested in the answer to this question too.

Based on the demographics and latest polling information, I’ll bet about 600 show up on average, more at popular times, less at less popular times.

The “crack of dawn” Sunday mass is going to be the least popular mass probably; the late morning mass will probably be the most popular.

Right.

Which if that is the case, there’s a lot of those 13000 Catholics not going to Mass

Sarah x

 

[iloveangels]

Right.

Which if that is the case, there’s a lot of those 13000 Catholics not going to Mass

Sarah x

Yeah, atheistgirl, that’s what the New Evangelism is REALLY about.

Actually, now that I think about it, it will probably be a bit higher, simply because there will be about 600 on average who go to mass every Sunday, and several hundred more in and out–there sometimes but not every Sunday, and that several hundred will tend to rotate…so raise my estimate to say, 1000 average per mass. So it would be somewhat higher, but still not all, not even half in fact.

This is using the CARA information online.

 

[ORD_Man]

That article is a complete disconnect from reality, but i have no idea whether it’s the author of the article that’s disconnected, as I suspect it is, or the content. The Cardinal didn’t write this hodgepodge."

Please show how the quote of the Cardinal is inaccurate.

I agree that politics are not *THE *answer (it is a part of it - its where the laity should be acting and bringing the faith ti the public square) but it seemsthat the Cardinal is the one enamored with being “accepted” in the political sphere - even if one of the “Catholic” candidates supports intrinsic evils such as abortion and should be rightly denied Communion under Canon 915. But I don’t see the Cardinal addressing this issue - quite the opposite because he’s more concerned with “civility” in the public square and hob-knobbing with celebrities.

You can’t restore the faith if you won’t stand up for it. Cardinal O’Connor he is not.

 

[St_Francis]

I’m not saying “don’t pray.” That would be bad. I am saying that wishing and hoping is not a strategy. If we don’t do something concrete, nothing will get done.

This is the precise problem I am talking about: the idea that prayer is not “doing something,” the idea that we must do something apart from prayer.

PS. I’ve been waiting for a couple of decades for something to “unfold.” Still waiting.

And I propose that things will begin to unfold in direct proportion to people’s improving their prayer lives.

I did not understand this when I first entered the Church–it is a hard concept to grasp. The first time a priest told me to pray when I asked him for advice on a family crisis, my reaction was: You don’t understand–I have to *do something!" *In the many (over 15) years since that time, I have learned that prayer is the first thing we should do; it must become the foundation of our actions. Instituting programs and the like will be ultimately useless if we ourselves are not increasing in holiness and if the newcomers are not increasing in holiness. That would just be a club with a lot of members, not a Church founded by and ordered towards God.

 

[hazcompat]

If you are not transubstantiated in the Holy Eucharist, how can you share your faith with another?

peace

 

[teenphilo1]

That article is a complete disconnect from reality, but i have no idea whether it’s the author of the article that’s disconnected, as I suspect it is, or the content. The Cardinal didn’t write this hodgepodge.

At any rate, both Ryan and Biden were picked for the positions they’re in for their political skills and experiences. Both of them have been baptized Catholic but no matter how they regard their faith, they’re being used as pawns in the “Catholic bloc” game that politicians play to try to get votes. Let’s not be naive.

I have no idea which of them is more “Catholic” and I’m not judging. But I don’t expect to see either of them to pop up with the stigmata anytime soon, or break out in a roaring rendition of Handels’ Allelujiah Chorus during prime time. This is American politics, not a canonization proceeding.

Personally, I always dislike all this hoopla around Catholic candidates. I’m often relieved when someone just runs on their record and is a pretty decent guy. Aka. Reagan etc. It’s politics.

And one thing we agree on heartily: Thinking of this thing in political terms is part of the problem, not part of the solution. In fact, it’s a huge part of the problem!

I watched Biden lie about the Church teachings on abortion right there on national TV. Either that or he has no idea that cooperation with abortion is a sin too. (when he said he wouldn’t move to ban abortion)

 

[iloveangels]

This is the precise problem I am talking about: the idea that prayer is not “doing something,” the idea that we must do something apart from prayer.
And I propose that things will begin to unfold in direct proportion to people’s improving their prayer lives.
I did not understand this when I first entered the Church–it is a hard concept to grasp. The first time a priest told me to pray when I asked him for advice on a family crisis, my reaction was: You don’t understand–I have to *do something!" *In the many (over 15) years since that time, I have learned that prayer is the first thing we should do; it must become the foundation of our actions. Instituting programs and the like will be ultimately useless if we ourselves are not increasing in holiness and if the newcomers are not increasing in holiness. That would just be a club with a lot of members, not a Church founded by and ordered towards God.

I didn’t say it was either/or. The problem is that I always hear a big flood of pious stuff but nothing gets done. The fact is that Catholics wax poetic at the drop of a hat about dying for the faith by the grisliest, bloodiest means possible, but you can’t get most of them to come to a meeting or a potluck, and most of them can’t even be bribed to do more than the minimum with donuts. That apparently is harder?

I watched Biden lie about the Church teachings on abortion right there on national TV. Either that or he has no idea that cooperation with abortion is a sin too. (when he said he wouldn’t move to ban abortion)

Oh don’t kid yourself. He knows the difference. It’s not like this isn’t dealt with very clearly in the CCC and other Church documents. It’s not like he hasn’t been told.

 

[teenphilo1]

I never said I expected him to not know, but with the state of catechism in the US, it wouldn’t surprise me.

 

[iloveangels]

This is what the Catholic Church is really up against, and it’s tough because we are all tangled up with it now. If they want this New Evangelism to succeed, they’re going to have to confront this basic fact, and then deal with it.

The World’s Most Dynamic Religion Is …

realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/10/02/the_worlds_most_dynamic_religion_is__115640.html

Take special note of the following quote:
*"If you want to understand why so many Jews vote left while nearly all the Western world’s opposition to – and frequently hatred of – Israel emanates from the left, one explanation is this: For most American Jews, their religion is leftism, while Judaism is their ethnicity and culture. The Reform, and increasingly the Conservative, movements have, to a large extent, become political movements that use Hebrew and Jewish rituals to equate Judaism with progressive politics.

Within mainstream Protestantism and Catholicism, the same dominance of leftist values exists. The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops – not to mention the Notre Dame faculty – largely holds the same social and economic views as the Democratic Party and The New York Times editorial page."*

 

[teenphilo1]

I would refrain from making this about any one party. The GOP are not our allies either. (and due to their shaky claim of religion they are almost more of a danger. I am not saying all members of the GOP are bad, just as I am not saying all democrats are bad. Just the vast majority of the ones in DC)

 

[iloveangels]

I would refrain from making this about any one party. The GOP are not our allies either. (and due to their shaky claim of religion they are almost more of a danger. I am not saying all members of the GOP are bad, just as I am not saying all democrats are bad. Just the vast majority of the ones in DC)

The fact is that the “religion of the left” is what we’re up against. Did you even read the article???

*"For at least the last hundred years, the world’s most dynamic religion has been neither Christianity nor Islam.

It is leftism.

Most people do not recognize what is probably the single most important fact of modern life. One reason is that leftism is overwhelmingly secular (more than merely secular: it is inherently opposed to all traditional religions), and therefore people do not regard it as a religion. Another is that leftism so convincingly portrays itself as solely the product of reason, intellect, and science that it has not been seen as the dogma-based ideology that it is."*

 

[Pitcharan]

From International News.

Pope Benedict XVI on Sunday opened a meeting of Roman Catholic Church leaders from around the world to debate how to counter rising secularism on the 50th anniversary of the momentous Second Vatican Council.

The synod of 262 archbishops, bishops and other senior clerics heard a call from the pope for a “new evangelism” for the Catholic Church, which is fast losing followers in Europe and feels increasingly discriminated against in many parts of the world. The three-week synod coincides with the announcement on October 11 of a “Year of Faith” to mark the anniversary of the start of the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965), which changed the face of Catholicism. In Saint Peter’s Square on Sunday, Benedict said the Council had been “the most universal expression” of the spiritual dynamic of the 20th century. He shunned any reference to the latest scandal to rock the 2,000-year-old institution, the trial of his butler Paolo Gabriele who was convicted on Saturday of stealing secret papers from…

Unless the church reins in its fundamentalists, moral police, rabid anti-islamists and fanatic zionists, it cannot stop the exodus towards secularism. Christians in general and Catholics in particular should realise that our faith is all about love and NOT fault finding.
They should publicly repent the sins of:
i) long ago past (days of inquisition and witch-hunting),
ii) recent past (spreading hatred against communists)
iii) and present (spewing venom on others in the pretext of being of moralistic and pro-life)

The church should emphasise focus on:

• Not being judgemental
• Avoiding any talk about alleged heresies outside CC
• Cleansing of corruption and worse evils within instead of doing the same to the outside world
• Disown and drop all ideas of superiority / monopoly in salvation, truth and knowledge of God

 

[teenphilo1]

Leftism is a behemoth, I agree, but rightism is a Trojan Horse. Rightism spews so much hate of people as compared to hate of sin. “Pray the gay away” and insisting that homosexuals should become straight instead of recognizing that yes, they should be chaste, but that they also must be treated with compassion and respect (CCC 2358 and 2359). They claim all Muslims are Muslim Brotherhood. Many believe that most poor people are lazy. And they do much of this while priding themselves on their Christianity. But where is the Christianity without the virtue of charity?

At least Leftism calls itself what it is.

 

[iloveangels]

Unless the church reins in its fundamentalists, moral police, rabid anti-islamists and fanatic zionists, it cannot stop the exodus towards secularism. Christians in general and Catholics in particular should realise that our faith is all about love and NOT fault finding.
They should publicly repent the sins of:
i) long ago past (days of inquisition and witch-hunting),
ii) recent past (spreading hatred against communists)
iii) and present (spewing venom on others in the pretext of being of moralistic and pro-life)

The church should emphasise focus on:

• Not being judgemental
• Avoiding any talk about alleged heresies outside CC
• Cleansing of corruption and worse evils within instead of doing the same to the outside world
• Disown and drop all ideas of superiority / monopoly in salvation, truth and knowledge of God

No. Not at all. This is all wrong.

What the Church has to do is mobilize so that people spend more time at the parish and develop social contacts who are also Catholic. We also need devotions at the parish level and devotions at the personal level that are connected to those parish devotions. We also have to develop a much better sense of Catholic identity. You should be able to walk down the street and spot another Catholic from 10 feet away, even if you don’t know them.

 

[iloveangels]

Unless the church reins in its fundamentalists, moral police, rabid anti-islamists and fanatic zionists, it cannot stop the exodus towards secularism. Christians in general and Catholics in particular should realise that our faith is all about love and NOT fault finding.
They should publicly repent the sins of:
i) long ago past (days of inquisition and witch-hunting),
ii) recent past (spreading hatred against communists)
iii) and present (spewing venom on others in the pretext of being of moralistic and pro-life)

The church should emphasise focus on:

• Not being judgemental
• Avoiding any talk about alleged heresies outside CC
• Cleansing of corruption and worse evils within instead of doing the same to the outside world
• Disown and drop all ideas of superiority / monopoly in salvation, truth and knowledge of God

No. Not at all. This is all wrong.

What the Church has to do is mobilize so that people spend more time at the parish and develop social contacts who are also Catholic. We also need devotions at the parish level and devotions at the personal level that are connected to those parish devotions. We also have to develop a much better sense of Catholic identity. You should be able to walk down the street and spot another Catholic from 10 feet away, even if you don’t know them.

Leftism is a behemoth, I agree, …
At least Leftism calls itself what it is.

No. It doesn’t. That was precisely the point of the article. YOu didn’t read it.

 

[St_Francis]

I didn’t say it was either/or. The problem is that I always hear a big flood of pious stuff but nothing gets done. The fact is that Catholics wax poetic at the drop of a hat about dying for the faith by the grisliest, bloodiest means possible, but you can’t get most of them to come to a meeting or a potluck, and most of them can’t even be bribed to do more than the minimum with donuts. That apparently is harder?

It’s easy to be well-fed and sitting in a comfortable armchair in an air-conditioned or heated room and *say *of course I would die for my Faith… yes, but would you *live *for your Faith? Or would you live for your work, or your house, or your hobby, or your whatever? You say you are willing to die for your Faith, but are you willing to be cold, to go door-to-door, to come to Adoration at 3 am, to stay up all night with a drug addict trying to quit using, to give up Starbuck’s so you can give more to the poor…

They will not come to do *work *for the Church *until they start to **pray. ***

 

[St_Francis]

This is what the Catholic Church is really up against, and it’s tough because we are all tangled up with it now. If they want this New Evangelism to succeed, they’re going to have to confront this basic fact, and then deal with it.

The World’s Most Dynamic Religion Is …

realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/10/02/the_worlds_most_dynamic_religion_is__115640.html

Take special note of the following quote:
*"If you want to understand why so many Jews vote left while nearly all the Western world’s opposition to – and frequently hatred of – Israel emanates from the left, one explanation is this: For most American Jews, their religion is leftism, while Judaism is their ethnicity and culture. The Reform, and increasingly the Conservative, movements have, to a large extent, become political movements that use Hebrew and Jewish rituals to equate Judaism with progressive politics.

Within mainstream Protestantism and Catholicism, the same dominance of leftist values exists. The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops – not to mention the Notre Dame faculty – largely holds the same social and economic views as the Democratic Party and The New York Times editorial page."*

Hits the nail right on the head!

I would refrain from making this about any one party. The GOP are not our allies either. (and due to their shaky claim of religion they are almost more of a danger. I am not saying all members of the GOP are bad, just as I am not saying all democrats are bad. Just the vast majority of the ones in DC)

This is not about parties. Both the left and the right stem from a common trunk: the Enlightenment, which put man’s reason over God. They merely differ in their idea of what freedom is and how to attain it.

(And if you don’t think the Leftists spew hate, you haven’t read some of their posts on their own sites, some of their responses to people who disagree with them, or listened to them protesting. The Democrats were not the party of the blacks when they were defending slavery, burning crosses, and promoting “getting rid of people we want fewer of” (Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg.))

 

[St_Francis]

Leftism is a behemoth, I agree, but rightism is a Trojan Horse. Rightism spews so much hate of people as compared to hate of sin. “Pray the gay away” and insisting that homosexuals should become straight instead of recognizing that yes, they should be chaste, but that they also must be treated with compassion and respect (CCC 2358 and 2359). They claim all Muslims are Muslim Brotherhood. Many believe that most poor people are lazy. And they do much of this while priding themselves on their Christianity. But where is the Christianity without the virtue of charity?

At least Leftism calls itself what it is.

When a religious scheme is shattered (as Christianity was shattered at the Reformation), it is not merely the vices that are let loose. The vices are, indeed, let loose, and they wander and do damage. But the virtues are let loose also; and the virtues wander more wildly, and the virtues do more terrible damage. The modern world is full of the old Christian virtues gone mad. The virtues have gone mad because they have been isolated from each other and are wandering alone. Thus some scientists care for truth; and their truth is pitiless. Thus some humanitarians only care for pity; and their pity (I am sorry to say) is often untruthful.—GK Chesterton, *Orthodoxy, *Chapter 3.

Both the right and the left depart from the truth, thus, insofar as each departs, each is evil and promotes evil thinking.