Catholic Mary / biblical Mary

[Semper_Fi_1]

myfavoritmartin:

Ahh, but you will find nary a single protestant who would dare associate Mary with the same reverence. So if by christian you mean some form of Catholic then I guess your statement would be correct.

I know quite a few Anglicans and Methodists who do. Face it… you are ignoring the fact that in the Davidic Kingdom (which Jesus restored) that the mother of the King was Queen. It is you who is ignoring scripture, not us.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

V. Mary is the New Eve and Most Blessed Among Women
“There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible, even Jesus Christ our Lord." Ignatius, To the Ephesians, 7 (c. A.D. 110).

“[T]hey blessed her, saying: O God of our fathers, bless this child, and give her an everlasting name to be named in all generations. And all the people said: So be it, so be it, amen. And he brought her to the chief priests; and they blessed her, saying: O God most high, look upon this child, and bless her with the utmost blessing, which shall be for ever.” Protoevangelium of John, 6:2 (A.D. 150).

“He became man by the Virgin, in order that the disobedience which proceeded from the serpent might receive its destruction in the same manner in which it derived its origin. For Eve, who was a virgin and undefiled, having conceived the word of the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the power of the Highest would overshadow her: wherefore also the Holy Thing begotten of her is the Son of God; and she replied, ‘Be it unto me according to thy word.’ And by her has He been born, to whom we have proved so many Scriptures refer, and by whom God destroys both the serpent and those angels and men who are like him; but works deliverance from death to those who repent of their wickedness and believe upon Him.” Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 100 (A.D. 155).

“[H]e was born of Mary the fair ewe.” Melito de Sardo, Easter Homily (c. A.D. 177).

“In accordance with this design, Mary the Virgin is found obedient, saying, ‘Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.’ But Eve was disobedient; for she did not obey when as yet she was a virgin. And even as she, having indeed a husband, Adam, but being nevertheless as yet a virgin (for in Paradise ‘they were both naked, and were not ashamed,’ inasmuch as they, having been created a short time previously, had no understanding of the procreation of children: for it was necessary that they should first come to adult age, and then multiply from that time onward), having become disobedient, was made the cause of death, both to herself and to the entire human race; so also did Mary, having a man betrothed [to her], and being nevertheless a virgin, by yielding obedience, become the cause of salvation, both to herself and the whole human race. And on this account does the law term a woman betrothed to a man, the wife of him who had betrothed her, although she was as yet a virgin; thus indicating the back-reference from Mary to Eve, because what is joined together could not otherwise be put asunder than by inversion of the process by which these bonds of union had arisen; s so that the former ties be cancelled by the latter, that the latter may set the former again at liberty… Wherefore also Luke, commencing the genealogy with the Lord, carried it back to Adam, indicating that it was He who regenerated them into the Gospel of life, and not they Him. And thus also it was that the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:22 (A.D. 180).

“For whereas the Word of God was without flesh, He took upon Himself the holy flesh by the holy Virgin, and prepared a robe which He wove for Himself, like a bridegroom, in the sufferings of the cross, in order that by uniting His own power with our moral body, and by mixing the incorruptible with the corruptible, and the strong with the weak, He might save perishing man.” Hippolytus, Treatise on Christ and antiChrist, 4 (A.D. 200).

“But the Lord Christ, the fruit of the Virgin, did not pronounce the breasts of women blessed, nor selected them to give nourishment; but when the kind and loving Father had rained down the Word, Himself became spiritual nourishment to the good. O mystic marvel! The universal Father is one, and one the universal Word; and the Holy Spirit is one and the same everywhere, and one is the only virgin mother. I love to call her the Church. This mother, when alone, had not milk, because alone she was not a woman. But she is once virgin and mother–pure as a virgin, loving as a mother. And calling her children to her, she nurses them with holy milk, viz., with the Word for childhood. Therefore she had not milk; for the milk was this child fair and comely, the body of Christ, which nourishes by the Word the young brood, which the Lord Himself brought forth in throes of the flesh, which the Lord Himself swathed in His precious blood.” Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor, I:6 (A.D.202).

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

“Accordingly, a virgin did conceive and bear ‘Emmanuel, God with us.’ This is the new nativity; a man is born in God. And in this man God was born, taking the flesh of an ancient race, without the help, however, of the ancient seed, in order that He might reform it with a new seed, that is, in a spiritual manner, and cleanse it by the re-moral of all its ancient stains. But the whole of this new birth was prefigured, as was the case in all other instances, in ancient type, the Lord being born as man by a dispensation in which a virgin was the medium. The earth was still in a virgin state, reduced as yet by no human labour, with no seed as yet cast into its furrows, when, as we are told, God made man out of it into a living soul…For it was while Eve was yet a virgin, that the ensnaring word had crept into her ear which was to build the edifice of death. Into a virgin’s soul, in like manner, must be introduced that Word of God which was to raise the fabric of life; so that what had been reduced to ruin by this sex, might by the selfsame sex be recovered to salvation. As Eve had believed the serpent, so Mary believed the angel. The delinquency which the one occasioned by believing, the other by believing effaced. But (it will be said) Eve did not at the devil’s word conceive in her womb. Well, she at all events conceived; for the devil’s word afterwards became as seed to her that she should conceive as an outcast, and bring forth in sorrow. Indeed she gave birth to a fratricidal devil; whilst Mary, on the contrary, bare one who was one day to secure salvation to Israel, His own brother after the flesh, and the murderer of Himself. God therefore sent down into the virgin’s womb His Word, as the good Brother, who should blot out the memory of the evil brother. Hence it was necessary that Christ should come forth for the salvation of man, in that condition of flesh into which man had entered ever since his condemnation.” Tertullian, Flesh of Christ, 17 (A.D. 212).

“And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the first-fruit among men of the purity which consists in chastity, and Mary among women; for it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the first-fruit of virginity.” Origen, Commentary on Matthew, 10:17 (A.D. 244).

“Many, my beloved, are the true testimonies concerning Christ. The Father bears witness from heaven of His Son: the Holy Ghost bears witness, descending bodily in likeness of a dove: the Archangel Gabriel bears witness, bringing good tidings to Mary: the Virgin Mother of God [Theotokos] bears witness: the blessed place of the manger bears witness” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 10:19 (A.D. 350).

“And as the grace of the Triad is one, so also the Triad is indivisible. We can see this in regard to Saint Mary herself. The archangel Gabriel when sent to announce the coming of the Word upon her said, ‘The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee’, knowing that the Spirit was in the Word. Wherefore he added: ‘and the Power of the Highest shall overshadow thee.’” Athanasius, To Serapion of Thmuis, III:6 (A.D. 360).

“And when he had taken her, ‘he knew her not, till she had brought forth her first-born Son.’ He hath here used the word ‘till,’ not that thou shouldest suspect that afterwards he did know her, but to inform thee that before the birth the Virgin was wholly untouched by man.” John Chrysostom, Homily on Matthew, 5:5 (A.D. 370).

“It was, to divulge by the manner of His Incarnation this great secret; that purity is the only complete indication of the presence of God and of His coming, and that no one can in reality secure this for himself, unless he has altogether estranged himself from the passions of the flesh. What happened in the stainless Mary when the fullness of the Godhead which was in Christ shone out through her, that happens in every soul that leads by rule the virgin life.” Gregory of Nyssa, On Virginity, 2 (A.D. 371).

 

[Mickey]

Our Lady is also referred to as “The Ark of the New Covenant”.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

"In what remains we have the appointment of the Father’s will. The Virgin, the birth, the Body, then the Cross, the death, the visit to the lower world; these things are our salvation. For the sake of mankind the Son of God was born of tile Virgin and of the Holy Ghost. In this process He ministered to Himself; by His own power–the power of God–which overshadowed her He sowed the beginning of His Body, and entered on the first stage of His life in the flesh. He did it that by His Incarnation He might take to Himself from the Virgin the fleshly nature, and that through this commingling there might come into being a hallowed Body of all humanity; that so through that Body which He was pleased to assume all mankind might be hid in Him, and He in return, through His unseen existence, be reproduced in all. Thus the invisible Image of God scorned not the shame which marks the beginnings of human life. He passed through every stage; through conception, birth, wailing, cradle and each successive humiliation. What worthy return can we make for so great a condescension? The One Only-begotten God, ineffably born of God, entered the Virgin’s womb and grew and took the frame of poor humanity. He Who upholds the universe, within Whom and through Whom are all things, was brought forth by common childbirth; He at Whose voice Archangels and Angels tremble, and heaven and earth and all the elements of this world are melted, was heard in childish wailing. The Invisible and Incomprehensible, Whom sight and feeling and touch cannot gauge, was wrapped in a cradle.” Hilary of Poitiers, On the Trinity, 2:24-25 (A.D. 355).

“Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair; for there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother. Of these two fair ones, to whom are my children similar?” Ephraem, Nisbene Hymns, 27:8 (ante A.D. 373).

“Whoever honors the Lord also honors the holy [vessel]; who instead dishonors the holy vessel also dishonors his Master. Mary herself is that holy Virgin, that is, the holy vessel” Epiphanius, Panarion, 78:21 (A.D. 377).

“And if the God-bearing flesh was not ordained to be assumed of the lump of Adam, what need was there of the Holy Virgin?” Basil, To the Sozopolitans, Epistle 261 (A.D. 377).

“The first thing which kindles ardour in learning is the greatness of the teacher. What is greater than the Mother of God? What more glorious than she whom Glory Itself chose? What more chaste than she who bore a body without contact with another body? For why should I speak of her other virtues? She was a virgin not only in body but also in mind, who stained the sincerity of its disposition by no guile, who was humble in heart, grave in speech, prudent in mind, sparing of words, studious in reading, resting her hope not on uncertain riches, but on the prayer of the poor, intent on work, modest in discourse; wont to seek not man but God as the judge of her thoughts, to injure no one, to have goodwill towards all, to rise up before her elders, not to envy her equals, to avoid boastfulness, to follow reason, to love virtue.” Ambrose, On Virginity, 2:15 (A.D. 377).

“Recalling these and other circumstances and imploring the Virgin Mary to bring assistance, since she, too, was a virgin and had been in danger, she entrusted herself to the remedy of fasting and sleeping on the ground.” Gregory of Nazianzen, Oration 24:11 (A.D. 379).

“If anyone does not believe that Holy Mary is the Mother of God, he is severed from the Godhead. If anyone should assert that He passed through the Virgin as through a channel, and was not at once divinely and humanly formed in her (divinely, because without the intervention of a man; humanly, because in accordance with the laws of gestation), he is in like manner godless.” Gregory of Nazianzen, To Cledonius, Epistle 101 (A.D. 382).

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

“‘There shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a flower shall grow out of his roots.’ The rod is the mother of the Lord–simple, pure, unsullied; drawing no germ of life from without but fruitful in singleness like God Himself…Set before you the blessed Mary, whose surpassing purity made her meet to be the mother of the Lord.” Jerome, To Eustochium, Epistle 22:19,38 (A.D. 384).

“We must except the holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honour to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin.” Augustine, Nature and Grace, 36:42 (A.D. 415).

"Hail, Mary, you are the most precious creature in the whole world; hail, Mary, uncorrupt dove; hail, Mary, inextinguishable lamp; for from you was born the Sun of justice…through you, every faithful soul achieves salvation.” Cyril of Alexandria, Homily 11 at Ephesus (A.D. 431).

“If anyone will not confess that the Emmanuel is very God, and that therefore the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (theotokos), inasmuch as in the flesh she bore the Word of God made flesh [as it is written, ‘The Word was made flesh’ let him be anathema.” Council of Ephesus [Cyril’s Epistle 17], Anathema I (A.D. 431).

“A Virgin conceived, a Virgin bore, and a Virgin she remains.” Peter Chyrsologus, Sermon 117 (post A.D. 432).

“And by a new nativity He was begotten, conceived by a Virgin, born of a Virgin, without paternal desire, without injury to the mother’s chastity: because such a birth as knew no taint of human flesh, became One who was to be the Saviour of men, while it possessed in itself the nature of human substance. For when God was born in the flesh, God Himself was the Father, as the archangel witnessed to the Blessed Virgin Mary: ‘because the Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee: and therefore, that which shall be born of thee shall be called holy, the Son of God.’ The origin is different but the nature like: not by intercourse with man but by the power of God was it brought about: for a Virgin conceived, a Virgin bare, and a Virgin she remained…For the uncorrupt nature of Him that was born had to guard the primal virginity of the Mother, and the infused power of the Divine Spirit had to preserve in spotlessness and holiness that sanctuary which He had chosen for Himself: that Spirit (I say) who had determined to raise the fallen, to restore the broken, and by overcoming the allurements of the flesh to bestow on us in abundant measure the power of chastity: in order that the virginity which in others cannot be retained in child-bearing, might be attained by them at their second birth.” Pope Leo the Great [regn. A.D. 440-461], in Sermon 22:2 (ante A.D. 461).

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

VI. Mary is our Powerful Intercessor

“For as Eve was seduced by the word of an angel to flee from God, having rebelled against His Word, so Mary by the word of an angel received the glad tidings that she would bear God by obeying his Word. The former was seduced to disobey God, but the latter was persuaded to obey God, so that the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. As the human race was subjected to death through [the act of] a virgin, so it was saved by a virgin.” *Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:19,1 (A.D. 180). *

“Under your mercy we take refuge, O Mother of God. Do not reject our supplications in necessity, but deliver us from danger,[O you] alone pure and alone blessed.” *Sub Tuum Praesidium, From Rylands Papyrus, Egypt (3rd century). *

“Let, then, the life of Mary be as it were virginity itself, set forth in a likeness, from which, as from a mirror, the appearance of chastity and the form of virtue is reflected… Nor would I hesitate to admit you to the altars of God, whose souls I would without hesitation call altars, on which Christ is daily offered for the redemption of the body. For if the virgin’s body be a temple of God, what is her soul, which, the ashes, as it were, of the body being shaken off, once more uncovered by the hand of the Eternal Priest, exhales the vapor of the divine fire. Blessed virgins, who emit a fragrance through divine grace as gardens do through flowers, temples through religion, altars through the priest.” *Ambrose, On Virginity II:6,18 (A.D. 378). *

“Recalling these and other circumstances and imploring the Virgin Mary to bring assistance, since she, too, was a virgin and had been in danger, she entrusted herself to the remedy of fasting and sleeping on the ground.” Gregory of Nazianzen, Oration 24:11 (A.D. 379).

“For it is said that he [Gregory the Wonderworker] heard the one who had appeared in womanly form exhorting John the Evangelist to explain to the young man the mystery of the true faith. John, in his turn, declared that he was completely willing to please the Mother of the Lord even in this matter and this was the one thing closest to his heart. And so the discussion coming to a close, and after they had made it quite clear and precise for him, the two disappeared from his sight.” Gregory of Nyssa, On Gregory the WonderWorker (A.D. 380).
“Mary, the holy Virgin, is truly great before God and men. For how shall we not proclaim her great, who held within her the uncontainable One, whom neither heaven nor earth can contain?” *Epiphanius, Panarion, 30:31 (ante A.D. 403). *

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

“Give milk, Mother to him who is our food, give milk to the bread coming down from heaven …give milk to him who made you such that he could be made fruitfulness in conception and in birth, did not take from you the ornament of virginity.” *Augustine, Sermon 369:1 (A.D. 430). *

“Hail to thee Mary, Mother of God, to whom in towns and villages and in island were founded churches of true believers.” *Cyril of Alexandria, Homily 11 (ante A.D. 444). *

“Hail, our desirable gladness; Hail, O rejoicing of the Churches; Hail, O name that breathes out sweetness; Hail, face that radiates divinity and grace; Hail, most venerable memory…” *Theodotus of Ancrya, Homily 4:3 (ante A.D. 446). *

“The Virgin’s festival (parthenike panegyris) incites our tongue today to herald her praise …handmaid and Mother, Virgin and heaven, the only bridge of God to men, the awful loom of the Incarnation, in which by some unspeakable way the garment of that union was woven, whereof the weaver is the Holy Ghost; and the spinner the overshadowing from on high; the wool the ancient fleece of Adam; the woof the undefiled flesh from the virgin, the weaver’s shuttle the immense grace of Him who brought it about; the artificer the Word gliding through the hearing.” Proclus of Constantinople, Homily 1 (ante A.D. 446).

“The Virgin received Salvation so that she may give it back to the centuries.” *Peter Chrysologus, Sermon 140 (ante A.D. 450). *

"O Virgin all holy, he who has said of you all that is honorable and glorious has not sinned against the truth, but remains unequal to your merit. Look down upon us from above and be propitious to us. Lead us in peace and having brought us without shame to the throne of judgment, grant us a place at the right hand of your Son, that we may borne off to heaven and sing with angels to the uncreated, consubstantial Trinity. " *Basil of Seleucia, PG 85:452 (ante A.D. 459). *

“Cease your laments; I will make myself your advocate in my Son’s presence. Meanwhile, no more sadness, because I have brought joy to the world. For it is to destroy the kingdom of sorrow that I have come into the world: I full of grace … Then curb your tears; accept me as your mediatrix in the presence of him who was born from me, because the author of joy is the God generated before all ages. Remain calm; be troubled no longer: I come from him, full of grace.” *Romanos the Singer, On Christmas 2,10-11 (ante A.D. 560). *

“Raised to heaven, she remains for the human race an unconquerable rampart, interceding for us before her Son and God.”* Theoteknos of Livias, Assumption 291(ante A.D. 560). *“Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, because thou didst conceive Christ, the Son of God, the Redeemer of our souls.” *Coptic Ostraca (A.D. 600). *

 

[Mickey]

Ever notice how Jesus refers to His mother as “woman” in the Gospel of St John?

---

John 2:4: And Jesus said to her, “O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come.”

John 19:26: When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!”

Here is why Jesus deliberately refers to His mother as “woman”. It is not derogatory—He is teaching us something.

Genesis 2:23*:* Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.”
(Mary is the new Eve)

**Rev 12:1: **And a great portent appeared in heaven, a **woman **clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;
(Mary as the Queen of Heaven)

I can also show you why she is the Ark of the new covenant if you care to know.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

As for me, I choose to follow Jesus as much as I can. Since He would have certainly honored the commandment “honor thy mother and father”, we know he honored His mother (not to mention His Father). I choose to honor His mother as well.

I find it interesting that protestants think that the Catholic Mary is different than the biblical Mary… considering where the New Testament came from.

 

[Church_Militant]

Hey Martin!
How come ya never answered me in post 15? It’s a valid point.

 

[NonDenom]

I find it interesting that protestants think that the Catholic Mary is different than the biblical Mary… considering where the New Testament came from.

Hi All
I have no problem with Mary being the Queen of Heaven, She is after all the Mother of our Lord and savior. My only problem with the Catholic view of Mary is that they honor her way more than I’m sure She even wants them to. It only make sense that she would want all the focus to be on Him and not on Her. Mary showed her unselfishness by putting her faith in God and saying “Yes”. It is that same unselfishness that wants all of God’s children to give all praise and honor to Him. Wait, if we are all children of God, and Jesus is God, then that would make us Jesus’s children as well, wouldn’t it?. Would that then make us Mary’s Grandchildren?. Just a thought.
In Him and Only Him

 

[montanaman]

NonDenom:

Hi All
I have no problem with Mary being the Queen of Heaven, She is after all the Mother of our Lord and savior. My only problem with the Catholic view of Mary is that they honor her way more than I’m sure She even wants them to. It only make sense that she would want all the focus to be on Him and not on Her. Mary showed her unselfishness by putting her faith in God and saying “Yes”. It is that same unselfishness that wants all of God’s children to give all praise and honor to Him. Wait, if we are all children of God, and Jesus is God, then that would make us Jesus’s children as well, wouldn’t it?. Would that then make us Mary’s Grandchildren?. Just a thought.
In Him and Only Him

As one who doesn’t consciously try to objectively ensure that he doesn’t worship Mary, I’d appreciate it if you could give us the appropriate sliding scale of honor/veneration. I’ll assume that because you, as a good Christian, honor your father and mother, you have a practical scale to which you can refer. The persistant Protestant entreaty not to honor her “too much” is helpful–and appreciated–but not very helpful on a practical level. Since all nations will call her blessed, surely there’s a Protestant method of preventing excessive honor.

I wait with bated breath.

 

[Mickey]

NonDenom:

Would that then make us Mary’s Grandchildren?

You’re almost there! God is our Father. Jesus is our brother. And Mary is our mother.

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi All
I have no problem with Mary being the Queen of Heaven, She is after all the Mother of our Lord and savior. My only problem with the Catholic view of Mary is that they honor her way more than I’m sure She even wants them to.

It only make sense that she would want all the focus to be on Him and not on Her. Mary showed her unselfishness by putting her faith in God and saying “Yes”. It is that same unselfishness that wants all of God’s children to give all praise and honor to Him. Wait, if we are all children of God, and Jesus is God, then that would make us Jesus’s children as well, wouldn’t it?. Would that then make us Mary’s Grandchildren?. Just a thought.
In Him and Only HimHow would you know? Not being cute or anything, but has she appeared to you?

More importantly, I (of course) disagree with you. Since ALL Marian devotion is Christocentric, just as on the day of Jesus first miracle (at Mary’s intercession no less.) at the wedding feast in Cana, her message to the church has never changed, she still says to us “…Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye.” (John 2:5) and that’s what it’s all about. Every saint and all devotion to them points to Our Lord as the source of all grace and God alone as the only object of worship.

Anyone who tells you different simply does not know what they are talking about.

Take it easy on the other thoughts…LOL. (Grandchildren? Sheesh… )
Pax tecum,

 

[Nicene]

myfavoritmartin:

Ahh, but you will find nary a single protestant who would dare associate Mary with the same reverence. So if by christian you mean some form of Catholic then I guess your statement would be correct.

Yeah we know, protestants tend to denigate her pretty much down to a common trollop (and yep if you wish links I can give you some protestant beauts they attach to Mary instead of queen of heaven, one begins with a wh…)

So much for “every generation will call me blessed” among protestants.

oops almost forgot one, from a Landmark baptist preacher no less whom I debate: He calls Mary an incubator.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Nicene]

NonDenom:

Hi All
I have no problem with Mary being the Queen of Heaven, She is after all the Mother of our Lord and savior. My only problem with the Catholic view of Mary is that they honor her way more than I’m sure She even wants them to. It only make sense that she would want all the focus to be on Him and not on Her. Mary showed her unselfishness by putting her faith in God and saying “Yes”. It is that same unselfishness that wants all of God’s children to give all praise and honor to Him. Wait, if we are all children of God, and Jesus is God, then that would make us Jesus’s children as well, wouldn’t it?. Would that then make us Mary’s Grandchildren?. Just a thought.
In Him and Only Him

Actually it makes us Mary’s children under Jewish inheritance. An adoption in Judaism, particularly in OT/NT times sees no difference between adoption and blood. They are one and the same as if we had been born into the family ourselves.

We are Christ’s brothers and sisters, therefore Mary is our Mother.

Which also brings us to the ten commandments “Honor thy Father and thy Mother.”

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[Mickey]

Nicene:

He calls Mary an incubator.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_2.gif

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Marian devotion is Christocentric, just as on the day of Jesus first miracle (at Mary’s intercession no less.) at the wedding feast in Cana, her message to the church has never changed, she still says to us “…Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye.” (John 2:5) and that’s what it’s all about. Every saint and all devotion to them points to Our Lord as the source of all grace and God alone as the only object of worship.

Anyone who tells you different simply does not know what they are talking about.

Amen to that! Of course, a major problem here is with perception. A perfect example of this is the Rosary. Catholics who pray the Rosary properly are meditating on the mysteries of Christ. For me personally, the meditations of the Rosary have given me a deeper understanding of the most important events of the life of our Lord. And yet, all protestants see is that that there are more “Hail Mary’s” than “Our Father’s” in the Rosary, therefore, we must be worshiping Mary. :banghead:

 

[Nicene]

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_2.gif

You would have to have been there for the debates, they centered on Christs natures. In a nutshell he contends that God (in the NT using the word begotten) placed a formed fetus inside of Mary that He created. Thus just making Mary an incubator.

Basically it deprives Christ of being fully human, but instead makes Him a different creature altogether more akin to angels, not sharing in our true humanity.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene