Catholic military chaplains

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Alright, I’m done here. Not justifying my cred to you. If I didn’t need to stop doing that after my first deployment to a combat zone, I certainly don’t need to do it after my second.

Later. Have fun reinforcing the entitlement mentality a lot of people in uniform have these days.
 
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That’s almost laughable.

Amazing how backing troops for better pay is enforcing entitlement mentality. I’m not about that nor have I stated I am. I have given entire presentations to incoming troops regarding stewardship of TRICARE and how to protect that benefit and not abuse it, so I’d say you have no idea what you’re discussing in the regard.

Interesting.

I also never asked you to prove your credentials, so I have no idea where that came from. I’ve also deployed - in four operations - so I’d say that’s irrelevant here. This isn’t about combat credentials. It’s about backing one’s people and knowing the ones one is in charge of leading. Not how many times you’ve deployed.

That doesn’t impart “cred”, and never has.
 
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You asked me to prove that I’ve lived the life. I have amply proven that to you. Asking me to demonstrate it further is insulting. You don’t have to agree with me, but don’t imply I don’t have a basis for my opinion.

Anyway, moving on: where did you deploy to? Maybe we crossed paths.
 
I mean by your words. Not straight creds. Asking for deployment creds is nuts in my book.

Kosovo (I was enlisted stop lossed for that one), Desert Storm/Southern Watch and Northern Watch, and Craig in Afghanistan. I was Stateside in support of Iraq but didn’t get the privilege of going direct.

The joke at my house is my civilian husband spent more time in Iraq’s green zone than I did - which is true. 😂😂
 
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Well, as far as my words go, we just disagree. Doesn’t mean I’m speaking from ignorance.

As far as Iraq goes, you didn’t miss much. Afghanistan is way better.
 
I don’t think you’re ignorant. I think you missed my point, but I would never say you’re ignorant.

My Airmen would tell you I am the most anti-entitlement person around, though. I spent formative years as the child of a retiree under CHAMPUS. The eye roll I have to hide when retirees complain about the $500 a year or so they pay for TRICARE would blow your mind - because I remember life before TRICARE. I know that TRICARE is a benefit, not an entitlement, and the “guaranteed to death” is a myth. I also remember when the military member deployed for a year and your family had to leave on base housing because the housing wasn’t for the family, it was considered a member’s entitlement.

Oh how things have changed. When I went to Korea and was unaccompanied, had we been living on base, my husband could’ve remained in on base housing at that duty station even though I had technically left and was permanently stationed elsewhere. What a blessing for young families with small children. Us? We were booted off base. Not our house.
 
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For the US… which I believe is the only military archdiocese in the world. There are, however, many other military ordinariates throughout the world.
 
Pup 7 and Boom Boom Mancini:

From what I recall, the Air Force and Coast Guard require higher ASVAB scores than some of the other branches. I can see that an enlisted airman (E-1 through E-3) could have 60 hours of college already. I also remember that there are some circumstances that if an enlisted man has some college hours, he or she may receive a higher rank after successfully completing boot camp (i.e. receiving E-3 while others receive E-2). Years back, I knew a few Eagle Scouts who were given E-3 after boot camp, because the Eagle Rank showed leadership (I think a girl who received the Gold Award would be eligible too). I had an old roommate who served in the Army (early 1980s) before going to college, and he said there were guys at boot camp who received E-3 upon graduation because they had already had some college.
 
That is true for enlisteds. Officers, though, don’t take the ASVAB, and direct commissions (lawyers, all health professions, and the chaplain corps) do not test to get in either. Other officer candidates do take the AFOQT (Air Force Officer Qualifying test), and I cannot speak for the other services but I’m sure they have an officer test as well.

I took the AFOQT when I was enlisted, but dropped out of consideration when I couldn’t pass a Class 1 flying physical due to astigmatism. Back then, they didn’t do laser surgery if you were a pilot candidate. Now they do. I didn’t want any job but C-17 pilot, so I pulled my application.

I know the Navy doesn’t require a test for direct commissions, because the USN was my backup when I applied to the USAF as an RN, though I’d have been shocked if the Air Force had said no.

The Navy’s ASVAB minimum is somewhere around ours as well.

The USAF grants the E3 by signing for six years (and sometimes they pull it - it seems to come in cycles), having Eagle Scout status (because we all know what that shows - I do think they still do that), or coming in with three years of college. That was how I came in when I enlisted 20 years ago with advanced rank - I had 3 years of a university degree. (But no money, LOL.)
 
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Pup7:

Thanks for your service.

An Air Force Captain I met last year at a church conference (Oct 2017) told me that OTS is very difficult to get into. Most officer candidates being sought have to have STEM degrees with stellar GPAs. I do recall the majority of USAF officers come from ROTC programs. While some come from USAFA (I think the pilot and navigator commitment is now 10 years - 25 years ago it was 8 for pilot and 7 for navigator), and others come from DCE type programs (Medical Corps for doctors, pharmacists, dentists, PAs, nurses, and JAG Corps for attorneys, and of course Chaplains), ROTC is the main focus for generating Air Force officers.

I returned to college in the early 1990s, after the first Gulf War. I was in my mid-20s, with at least two years of college, and looked into “leap frogging” into the Corps of Cadets at Texas A&M. I wanted to seek an Air Force commission by doing the “basic camp course in the summer” and then the 3rd and 4th year of ROTC, which would lead to making 2LT upon graduation. At that time, a reduction in forces (I remember there were some O-3s with a year left on their service obligation receiving early outs, and several O-5s who had reached 20 but not yet 26 were encouraged to retire) was in place, and the majority of Cadets vying for Air Force commissions were on AFROTC scholarships, so my chances of getting an Air Force Commission were slim.

I remember there were a few years where OTS was taking only pilot and navigator. Like you I had an eye problem, and laser surgery wasn’t allowed. I was also 28 when I graduated with an engineering degree, and the cutoff age for pilot and navigator (due to the extra time) was 26.5. I don’t know if that has changed - this was early to mid 1990s.

The Navy does have a few more Officer Programs. Knew a few guys that got into intelligence, a classmate got into AOCS (Aviation - he didn’t do the A&M Corps), and a good friend I was in Scouts with became a Navy NUPOC (Nuclear propulsion officer - stayed 7 years). If I had known around graduation, I would have applied to the Navy Civil Engineers Corps. Had I gotten in, I might have retired as an O-5 (or an O-4 in the USNR) by now, and I didn’t know at the time that they would take engineers who majored not only civil, but mechanical (I did), and electrical.

I did try to get into the Coast Guard not long after 9/11. Applied for a Direct Commission Engineer. Didn’t have a written exam, but a thorough physical, an interview, a lengthy paperwork package, references, and a Board had to consider your application. Only 4 Engineers were picked the year I applied.

Again, Pup7, thanks for your service. Being prior enlisted yourself, you get more respect as an officer because you have walked in the boots of enlisted personnel.
 
Ajg, Fr. David, Pup7, Phemie, et. al.:

By the way, I am a Catholic revert (A&M helped me return to the faith), and I do support the Chaplain Corps and the Archdiocese for the Military Services. I subscribe to Salute, I donate money (the Archdiocese for the Military Services receives no government funding), and I sometimes send cards to Catholic Chaplains. I have a few posts in the archives about the Archdiocese for the Military Services, and Fr. David’s posts were really good.

My dad isn’t Catholic, but he retired from the Air Force as an O-5. The first time I remember even meeting an Air Force Chaplain was a few months before my dad retired (I was 14 and we were on vacation, and one weekend we stayed at the BOQ at Holloman AFB, so we went to Catholic Mass at the Base Chapel on Sunday morning). Our mom always took us to a parish off base every Sunday and I went to CCD on Saturday mornings at a parish when we lived in Los Angeles, since the places we lived (my dad did primarily DOD-type work and aerospace work), we didn’t live on base, but we would use the BX, Commissary, and a few other amenities.

Their chaplains (Army, Air Force, and Navy - Navy Chaplains serve Coast Guard and Marines) have to already be ordained and have an ecclesiastical endorsement (i.e. a Catholic priest must be granted permission from his diocese or religious superior), have at least 3 years experience in ministry, be a United States Citizen (the Army has made a few exceptions to this), be able to pass physical standards, and preferably be under 42 years old. Forty-two is used because it’s feasible for a Chaplain to get 20 years of service for a retirement at 62, and the military is fairly young, with the demographic being primarily 18-42.

While most Chaplains don’t have prior service, some have had prior service in other billets. Other Chaplains such as Fr. Eric Albertson (COL, CHC, US Army), and Fr. Daniel Mode (CAPT, CHC, USN) grew up in military families, and understand the dynamics associated with deployments, military life, etc. Two of the current bishops for the Archdiocese for the Military Services were regular Army prior to entering seminary, and one bishop in Alaska had 7 years prior Air Force, as did a bishop in South Dakota who was an Air Force intelligence officer in Vietnam. Bishop Listecki of Milwaukee retired from the Army Reserve as a LTC, where he served in a reserve billet for many years as a Chaplain.

There are some seminarians that have had prior service, and if they become Chaplains, the time logged previously will be credited towards their retirement.
 
Interesting to read all your accounts.
 
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You’re welcome. I try.

The drawdown you reference is the exact same one that kept me out of ROTC when I enlisted in 1995. I was broke, couldn’t make rent, couldn’t keep borrowing money to go to school, couldn’t keep asking my parents for help. I called ROTC but was told the Pentagon had just pulled all the available slots due to the drawdown. I could’ve found another way, but I was tired of struggling and feeling like I was barely keeping the wolf from the door.

I will never regret my enlisted time for a myriad of reasons.

I hope my folks see that I do much of my job with them in mind. I have implicit trust in my enlisted corps, and do my best to show that.

We have a lot of that stuff as well - we have intel officers, crypto officers (my flight commander at our OTS was a crypto guy - in Russian), all sorts of stuff. We have weapons officers - who manage the nuclear program for the USAF - and we have this super cool job known as Air Battle Manager - they’re the guys who actually run air to air and air to ground combat from inside the AWACS aircraft. (So basically, for the non-military people here, the ABM manages combat while they themselves are in an aircraft, using that aircraft as a sort of air traffic control tower for whatever the ABM is doing. So. Awesome.)

Initial pilot commitment is now 12 years. I think the age is waiverable now through 28? I can’t remember. Most of my pilot friends are now of course my age, in their late 40s and early 50s, so they mostly came in under the regs you and I remember pouring over. Of course if you follow the news you know the USAF is hurting for pilots. Sigh. NOW they need us. 🙂
 
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on my 2nd ship (cruiser) we did not have a catholic chaplain;

the captain, recognizing the need for catholic services, told me you do it;

there was some sort of school that i was supposed to attend , but the captain said i didn’t need it

consecrated hosts showed up (somehow) on the ship

on sundays, i read the readings

we said a hail mary & and an our father and i passed out the hosts

i am not saying this to be disrespectful;

that just the way it was …
 
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brian_custer said:
on my 2nd ship (cruiser) we did not have a catholic chaplain;

the captain, recognizing the need for catholic services, told me you do it;

there was some sort of school that i was supposed to attend , but the captain said i didn’t need it

consecrated hosts showed up (somehow) on the ship

on sundays, i read the readings

we said a hail mary & and an our father and i passed out the hosts

i am not saying this to be disrespectful;

that just the way it was …
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It’s not disrespectful at all. Not by any means.

The Church allows for what you described: it’s called “Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest.”

There’s a little more it than what you described. Yes, it would have been better had you gone through the training, but that’s not your fault.
 
After the local recruiter bobbled my JAG application (he left a sheet out, and all the slots filled while I called regularly and he assured me it was in progress), I found myself talking with an Army Reserve or National Guard recruiter.

He insisted that I should enlist as a lawyers assistant, that I would automatically be an E3 after bootcamp, and automatic E4 four months later. Then I could apply for their JAG . . .

Uhh, no thanks.

hawk
 
They also have officer specific recruiters. I hate it when recruiters pull those stunts.

You got one that wasn’t, who had a quota to fill. I have to warn people about that all the time. When I was looking into commissioning, had active duty said no or their bonus had stunk, I had already talked to a Naval Reserve Officer recruiter. He laughed at me because I kept asking him, “you ARE an officer recruiter, correct? I’ve called the right office?” 😆😆😆

Situations like yours - where the guy behind the desk isn’t smart enough or concerned enough to say, hold on, I’m not the guy you need - really tick me off. The Reserves do direct commission, as does the NG and the ANG. Irritates me when that stuff happens to people.
 
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