Catholic Mysticism

[mymamamary]

**Dear Brothers and Sisters in the SACRED HEART!!

Todays Gospel reflected on that, as Sheep of Our Good Shepherd, we have been trained to recognize HIS VOICE. One of the ways that we can better attune ourselves to HIS VOICE is obviously, by Prayer. Which brings me to ask the question:

Mystics such as St. Catherine of Siena, or St. Faustina, were prayer warriors. They (from our perspective) knew how to pray. They also had a much more intimate expierence with GOD, presumably because of the fact that they prayed a lot, and knew the mechanics of prayer. now as for us, unless we are mystics, we aren’t going to get an Angel stabbing us through the heart with the spear of GODS LOVE like St. Teresa. However, we also feel GOD at work in our souls by feeling consolation or a “spiritual arousal”. We’ve all felt it before (Some more, others less) and can connect on the idea that we have all had “intimate” expierences with GOD.

So then without further adue:

Aren’t all Catholics called to be Mystics then? Aren’t we all supposed to become Mystics through our prayer?

I want some thoughts on this. All thoughts welcome. **

 

[PrayRosary]

Cool thread, looking forward to replies

 

[truthquester]

I am not Catholic, yet I have prayed and sensed or felt the presence of God, does that mean that I am a mystic?

 

[TiggerS]

My take
Misconcepts about Catholic mysticism per se probably abound. Some mystics certainly had rare and unusual experiences - but not the norm rather a most rare and unusal phenomenon. It is not the heart of mysticism rather uncommon expression of it in very few. Also, the mystical road is a difficult road, a way of suffering (The Cross), asking total dedication in pure and confident Faith in God. The Cross whsile to the human aspect of the psyche is always suffering, while to the spirit is an honor and a spiritual joy…eventually that is. Consolations of all kinds I read are given to the mystic to encourage them on the mystical way and are periodic rather than consistent. St Teresa of Avila considered unusual phenomena can be very dangerous spiritually and can be difficult to discern and to know if they flow from one’s own imagination or satan (both very powerful influences on the human psyche and should never be underestimated) and that the surest and safest way to Union is through active and constant love of neighbour. Unusual phenomena should be ignorned and subjected to a sound spiritual director and then follow the advice given in humble obedience.

St Teresa wrote that the summit of the mystical way, which she called The Seventh Manion or Spiritual Marriage is marked by a profound Peace when all unusual phenomena ceases completely. This makes real sense and falls in line with her earlier writings, since with the advent of Profound Peace (the Peace “the world cannot give”) there is no need for encouragement on the spiritual way.
Thomas Merton wrote that if the imagination is not given constructive distraction, it will get up to mischief. Interestingly, he wrote also that “constructive distraction” is not “airy fairy holy pictures”. While the later writings of Thomas Merton can be held suspect, his earlier writings are quite profound and he was an advisor to the Council during Vatican II.

I have read that qualities of a mystic is that they usually humble and a lover of God dedicated in every way to Him and in pure Faith. They obviate a profound common sense and practicalness with a keen perception of reality and they see virtue and God everywhere and in all things. They are hard workers and profound respecters and lovers of their neighbour. With a keen perception into reality, they can be firm and they can be gentle.
ncronline.org/blogs/eco-catholic/paying-perfume-what-mystic-looks “What a Mystic Looks Like”

 

[SweetLambs]

One of the best ways to get sheep to learn your voice and come when called is to simply be in their presence- calmly, quietly. They soon approach you and eventually will follow you and come when called by name.

I wonder if this wouldn’t be a good way to get to know our Shepherd, too- just to be in His Presence. Perhaps during Adoration or something.

I don’t know the answer to your question, but it is a good one, I think.

 

[mymamamary]

One of the best ways to get sheep to learn your voice and come when called is to simply be in their presence- calmly, quietly. They soon approach you and eventually will follow you and come when called by name.
**
I wonder if this wouldn’t be a good way to get to know our Shepherd, too- just to be in His Presence. Perhaps during Adoration or something. **
I don’t know the answer to your question, but it is a good one, I think.

In my opinion, EUCHARISTIC ADORATION is the bread and butter, not only of mystics, but Saints. If You cannot relax and lavish in the Presence of CHRIST INCARNATE on the Altar and in the Monstrance, how could we hope to enjoy eternity with HIM? EUCHARISTIC ADORATION is as You wisely noted, is something that is very quiet. Our LORD is amazing like that. HE Perches HIMSELF inside a ornamented metal object and never says a Physical word. However, like a good surgeon HE leaves no physical mark but goes to work, doing some hardcore spiritual surgery on our souls so that our souls are better conformed to HIS, because sin deforms our soul. Then we can better recognize HIS VOICE. Keep the thoughts coming…

 

[mymamamary]

I am not Catholic, yet I have prayed and sensed or felt the presence of God, does that mean that I am a mystic?

**I would argue so. Thats the point of this thread. I am trying to find out the fact that whether or not we have had a shocking mystical expierence with GOD, or just the little “nudge” of consolation and delight, or that “Still, small Voice”, aren;t our encounters with GOD mystical via prayer. Prayer being the bridge that takes the eternal part of us (Our Soul) which is connected to our physical part (Body) to then ultimatley connect it with GOD, and thus have our “own little mystical expierences”? I am not advocating the ghost in a machine concept of Descartes, just wondering about the everyday “ordinary Joe” kind of mysticism (Which would be most of us). **

 

[truthquester]

I have been very close to Him all my life, I think I have been one of the people they call the broken hearted. I have experienced emotional and spiritual suffering and also experienced some unusual things which I will not go into here. He did give me this to
share
s - show love and expect it in return
h - honer God, yourself and others
a - ask for help when you need it
r - return that help
e - every day.

 

[Tobias65]

I am not Catholic, yet I have prayed and sensed or felt the presence of God, does that mean that I am a mystic?

In the corner of protestantism that I come from it’s rare to hear the term “mystic” used in a positive way. I searched long and hard before I embraced the name. There are many elements though to “Bible-believing Christianity” that are mystical in nature, even if that is not usually what we call them.

For example, “Asking Jesus into your heart” is a phrase describing a mystical experience. Many people do not have the accompanying mystical experience when they do it, and have to abide in faith that God transformed them even though they felt nothing. But we always hear the testimonies of those who had a profound mystical experience at the time of salvation.

Another provision for maintaining a mystical connection with God is through daily devotions. When we come before Him in the mornings and EXPECT Him to speak to us personally either through prayer or by opening up the scriptures. We are taught the concept of Him providing our daily bread means He will speak to each one of us personally and individually.

These are just a couple examples of mystical experience that are incorporated into typical Christianity. Praying in tongues and working with the gifts of the Spirit would be even further steps.

However, to actually be called a “mystic” I think depends upon the depth and frequency of the experiences. There are no set standards and I think it all depends upon the eyes of the beholder. There are certain religious traditions that are considered mystical by nature, like Kabballa, Sufi Muslims, and Gnostic Christians; where first-day initiates are labeled “mystics” simply because they started reading the right books. I find this confusing and very unhelpful when trying to point someone to the essence of what it means to be a mystic. But alas, I have no control over standard definitions in the English language, so it is what it is.

 

[Tobias65]

My take
Misconcepts about Catholic mysticism per se probably abound. Some mystics certainly had rare and unusual experiences - but not the norm rather a most rare and unusal phenomenon. It is not the heart of mysticism rather uncommon expression of it in very few. Also, the mystical road is a difficult road, a way of suffering (The Cross), asking total dedication in pure and confident Faith in God. The Cross whsile to the human aspect of the psyche is always suffering, while to the spirit is an honor and a spiritual joy…eventually that is. Consolations of all kinds I read are given to the mystic to encourage them on the mystical way and are periodic rather than consistent. St Teresa of Avila considered unusual phenomena can be very dangerous spiritually and can be difficult to discern and to know if they flow from one’s own imagination or satan (both very powerful influences on the human psyche and should never be underestimated) and that the surest and safest way to Union is through active and constant love of neighbour. Unusual phenomena should be ignorned and subjected to a sound spiritual director and then follow the advice given in humble obedience.

St Teresa wrote that the summit of the mystical way, which she called The Seventh Manion or Spiritual Marriage is marked by a profound Peace when all unusual phenomena ceases completely. This makes real sense and falls in line with her earlier writings, since with the advent of Profound Peace (the Peace “the world cannot give”) there is no need for encouragement on the spiritual way.
Thomas Merton wrote that if the imagination is not given constructive distraction, it will get up to mischief. Interestingly, he wrote also that “constructive distraction” is not “airy fairy holy pictures”. While the later writings of Thomas Merton can be held suspect, his earlier writings are quite profound and he was an advisor to the Council during Vatican II.

I have read that qualities of a mystic is that they usually humble and a lover of God dedicated in every way to Him and in pure Faith. They obviate a profound common sense and practicalness with a keen perception of reality and they see virtue and God everywhere and in all things. They are hard workers and profound respecters and lovers of their neighbour. With a keen perception into reality, they can be firm and they can be gentle.
ncronline.org/blogs/eco-catholic/paying-perfume-what-mystic-looks “What a Mystic Looks Like”

I found your post extremely helpful. Thank you!

I have personally had numerous mystical experiences, which led me to the brink of becoming a pagan. Most of the reason for that was perhaps a personal trial of my faith that accompanied the experiences; but part of it too is because quite frankly, we protestants have no idea how to cope with these situations.

So I’ve come here hoping to glean some answers.

I’d honestly never thought of it as a cross to bare, or “a way of suffering” as you put it. This is somewhat of a foreign concept to my brain, but feels right inside. I intend to pursue that angle.

Also you mentioned that these experiences can come from one of three places: God, Satan, or the person’s own imagination (no, that’s not quite how you put it, but I swear I knew this before!) It kind of puts things in perspective, that the experiences themselves do not dictate who or what we are, they simply exist. And because I choose Christ, I can also choose to talk about the things which are beneficial to others rather than the things which I cannot understand even for myself. I would much rather talk about how the Good Shepherd went out and found me when I was lost and feeling disqualified from Christianity, and He brought me back to the fold.

I guess my focus has changed from thinking that these experiences were oh so important to discuss, to realizing that the standard Gospel is the standard Gospel for a reason. Like Peter said to Jesus, “Only you hold the keys to eternal life.” None of this other stuff really matters, does it?

 

[Forkfoot]

I would say that we’re called to pray like a mystic, but whether or not mystical experiences and states happen is up to God and not any of our business at all. We are to devote our inner lives to Him gratuitously, without demanding anything back in return. If I pray like a mystic for the sake of special states or experiences then I’m not really doing it out of love.

 

[Forkfoot]

In other words, pray like a mystic without concerning yourself with whether you actually are or ever will be a mystic. Success on this path is measured on how much you give, not how much you get.

 

[truthquester]

In the corner of protestantism that I come from it’s rare to hear the term “mystic” used in a positive way. I searched long and hard before I embraced the name. There are many elements though to “Bible-believing Christianity” that are mystical in nature, even if that is not usually what we call them.

For example, “Asking Jesus into your heart” is a phrase describing a mystical experience. Many people do not have the accompanying mystical experience when they do it, and have to abide in faith that God transformed them even though they felt nothing. But we always hear the testimonies of those who had a profound mystical experience at the time of salvation.

Another provision for maintaining a mystical connection with God is through daily devotions. When we come before Him in the mornings and EXPECT Him to speak to us personally either through prayer or by opening up the scriptures. We are taught the concept of Him providing our daily bread means He will speak to each one of us personally and individually.

These are just a couple examples of mystical experience that are incorporated into typical Christianity. Praying in tongues and working with the gifts of the Spirit would be even further steps.

However, to actually be called a “mystic” I think depends upon the depth and frequency of the experiences. There are no set standards and I think it all depends upon the eyes of the beholder. There are certain religious traditions that are considered mystical by nature, like Kabballa, Sufi Muslims, and Gnostic Christians; where first-day initiates are labeled “mystics” simply because they started reading the right books. I find this confusing and very unhelpful when trying to point someone to the essence of what it means to be a mystic. But alas, I have no control over standard definitions in the English language, so it is what it is.

Well said. In no way do I consider myself a mystic though, however I do believe that I have been truely blessed.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I consider a large part of thinking like a mystic, is to integrate superior performance in both dualistic and non-dualistic thinking. Jesus was a master at integrating the two, and most of us at least in western society are only taught dualistic thinking; using thinking to divide into groups. I think it’s closely linked to the “calculus” or “reductionist” approach to understanding of God.

One answer to how one can become like a mystic, is to learn the apophatic tradition of the Church, as opposed to the cataphatic which is typically all we ever hear about in school or from the pulpit. The Cloud of the unknowing. Contemplative prayer. Interior Castles. Dark Night of the Soul. All that good stuff. Truly denying the self in significant ways, and unlocking the door so if Jesus knocks, we have already invited Him in.

The CCC (2708) even says that prayer SHOULD go beyond vocal and meditative, into a form that achieves true union with God. And contemplative prayer achieves that union. (2718, 2724) In my experience, this has been the most direct form of prayer, in terms of bringing my to God. More like opening my heart and mind to God for Him to enter and alter as He may please.

Alan

 

[aspirant]

I would say that we’re called to pray like a mystic, but whether or not mystical experiences and states happen is up to God and not any of our business at all. We are to devote our inner lives to Him gratuitously, without demanding anything back in return. If I pray like a mystic for the sake of special states or experiences then I’m not really doing it out of love.

In other words, pray like a mystic without concerning yourself with whether you actually are or ever will be a mystic. Success on this path is measured on how much you give, not how much you get.

 

[Tobias65]

“Pray like a mystic”??? I’m confused. What does that mean?

I thought that perhaps one thing that makes a mystic a mystic is that they spend their prayer time listening, rather than being the one doing all the talking.

 

[Forkfoot]

“Pray like a mystic”??? I’m confused. What does that mean?

I thought that perhaps one thing that makes a mystic a mystic is that they spend their prayer time listening, rather than being the one doing all the talking.

Beautiful, yeah, the element of listening with the heart is certainly something that’s a part of that movement. Also as a Catholic you have an abundance of writings available to you that were written by actual mystics of your own faith; read them and learn what worked for them.

 

[Forkfoot]

One common thread that seems to run through the lives of all mystics is that prayer became as intimate and constant a part of their lives as their own heartbeat. They really fully threw their whole beings into it. There’s a hunger for God like a drowning man hungers for air. And that’s something you can pray for too.

 

[Tobias65]

Beautiful, yeah, the element of listening with the heart is certainly something that’s a part of that movement. Also as a Catholic you have an abundance of writings available to you that were written by actual mystics of your own faith; read them and learn what worked for them.

One common thread that seems to run through the lives of all mystics is that prayer became as intimate and constant a part of their lives as their own heartbeat. They really fully threw their whole beings into it. There’s a hunger for God like a drowning man hungers for air. And that’s something you can pray for too.

I’m not a catholic, so I don’t have the “abundance of writings available to you that were written by actual mystics of your own faith” nor do I know how to find them. My post was an honest question. Thank you for explaining.

I suppose you people probably find it odd that I would identify myself as a mystic. But remember, where I come from there is nothing special about being a mystic. I spent probably 20 years in desperation, seeking (and finding) the Lord with all my might from my teenage years till I was almost forty. Then the desperation went away.

The drive to seek God was gone, but the channels were all still wide open for anyone “else” to speak to me. I realized for the first time that what I am is a mystic; and over the next decade wondered more and more if “Christian” was still any part of that tittle. I considered Lucifer, who for many aeons dwelt in the very presence of God, but for some reason chose to abandon his post. Often for me to say, “I am a mystic” is akin to if Lucifer in a moment of honesty would simply say, “I am an angel.”

 

[AlanFromWichita]

The drive to seek God was gone, but the channels were all still wide open for anyone “else” to speak to me. I realized for the first time that what I am is a mystic; and over the next decade wondered more and more if “Christian” was still any part of that tittle. I considered Lucifer, who for many aeons dwelt in the very presence of God, but for some reason chose to abandon his post. Often for me to say, “I am a mystic” is akin to if Lucifer in a moment of honesty would simply say, “I am an angel.”

I don’t talk about it very much, but when I was undergoing the Dark Night of the Soul, which lasted for 12 years starting at age 42, I was driven to do some very evil things. The Dark Night of the Soul, for me, was a very psychotic and emotionally tumultuous period during which I was “under construction” to become a mystic; luckily for me I was one of them that actually got all the way through while I’m still alive, without getting thrown in jail or institutionalized in a state hospital. I now have empathy for Abraham for the first time in my life, how he could possibly think of doing the horrible evil of killing his own son. For myself, I directly risked my own mortal life, and indirectly risked other things just as precious to me if not more so. It’s about trusting without second-guessing. I figure God needs to “calibrate” us so that we are used to doing whatever even when it makes no sense. But then I received the blessing of seeing how it all made sense.

So yes, I can definitely see how being a mystic does not imply I’m particularly virtuous compared to anybody else, just that my mind is free and things about Jesus and about human behavior make perfect sense when in the past it literally drove me nuts. I certainly am a mystic, but I do not claim to be a “saint” any more than anyone else. That said, I can all of a sudden understand the mystical writings of saints better.

Have you ever heard of Dark Night of the Soul, by doctor of the Church St. John of the Cross? It’s about all what a soul goes through seeking union with God. And upon finding its God, it looks back and sees the experience akin to the “Stanzas of the Soul.”

STANZAS OF THE SOUL

	1. One dark night,
	fired with love's urgent longings
	  -- ah, the sheer grace! -- 
	I went out unseen,
	my house being now all stilled.
	
	2. In darkness, and secure,
  	by the secret ladder, disguised,
	 -- ah, the sheer grace! -- 
	in darkness and concealment,
	my house being now all stilled.

	3. On that glad night,
  	in secret, for no one saw me,
	nor did I look at anything,
	with no other light or guide
	than the one that burned in my heart.

	4. This guided me
     	more surely than the light of noon
	to where he was awaiting me
	 -- him I knew so well -- 
	there in a place where no one appeared.

	5. O guiding night!
  	O night more lovely than the dawn!
	O night that has united
	the Lover with his beloved,
	transforming the beloved in her Lover.

	6. Upon my flowering breast
  	which I kept wholly for him alone,
	there he lay sleeping,
	and I caressing him
	there in a breeze from the fanning cedars.

	7. When the breeze blew from the turret,
  	as I parted his hair,
  	it wounded my neck
	with its gentle hand,
	suspending all my senses.

	8. I abandoned and forgot myself,
  	laying my face on my Beloved;
	all things ceased; I went out from myself,
	leaving my cares
	forgotten among the lilies.

That, to me, is serious hard-core Catholic mysticism.

Alan