Catholic + non-Christian + kids = headaches

[MBF]

You mentioned you’d prefer he learn Vietnamese through a church- is there a group at a Catholic Church in new city? Could you all become involved in the group? Perhaps some friends who were also Catholic could at least lower her animosity toward the faith

We have many acquaintances who are Vietnamese Catholics…ironically, these are mainly though her brother (agnostic), who invites them to his home anytime he has a party.

She already has a new best friend at the new location. The situation for the friend and spouse is confusing, however. As I understand it, the friend was raised Buddhist but experienced some kind of epiphany and is now a Catholic. The spouse was a baptized Catholic, but nurtures Buddhist beliefs. Unfortunately, they say they intend to enroll their little boy in temple soon… that does not help things. They are a very nice couple and I’m grateful my wife has befriended them, since it is difficult for her to strike up true friendships. When we four are all together I find myself quietly trying to provide an example for true Catholicism, but friend’s spouse is very persuasive to wife about Buddhism (sadly).

We met an older Vietnamese gentleman in the new location last month while waiting to be seated at a restaurant. He pointed out the Vietnamese Catholic priest who was wrapping up his meal with friends, and insisted on sitting with us and paying for our meal. Later he drove us to a cafe for an after-dinner coffee, then launched into evangelization mode. Poor wife’s defenses shot up as she listened to him say several things that weren’t entirely accurate about Buddhist beliefs, and many things she does not agree with regarding Christianity. At least I know I can find a Vietnamese Catholic church in town, but am afraid the man is now in wife’s !#&%!%^ list now.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

She got her B.S. at Baylor. I think that is mainly a Baptist-run institution? It is a very good university, and I think Biblical studies is/was a mandatory elective. Don’t know if that constituted one course or more.

She was taken to an outside bible study or two by some of her fellow students, and I think they wanted her to attend a Sunday service with them. She observed their zeal and love of God, but perhaps she considered their faith misplaced. Twice my wife told me how one of her classmates launched into a short litany of “Praise Jesus!” for finding a vacant spot in a crowded parking lot and how ridiculous that was. Wife is a dedicated student, and while in the Bible course she was called out by the instructor for being more intuitive about the Scriptures than many cradle Christians in the same class.

Her disposition currently does not accept any teaching of the Church, but is open to what third parties have to say. Mainly Buddhist sources, the History Channel, and her New Age literature… which hardly explains what we as Catholics are all about.

Yes, Baylor is heavily Baptist, and well-known for its recruiting/pressure on other faiths. I would never recommend a Catholic to attend there unless he/she was VERY well-versed in Church history and Scripture (a Baptist strength because of their Bible studies and Sunday school classes), with a lot of support from family and friends. From inside knowledge, Southern Baptists consider the conversion of a Catholic the highest level of service to God - since they consider us “heathen.” Poorly catechized and weak Catholics are ripe for their outreach ministries. Their churches can seem so welcoming and warm compared with many Catholic parishes.

In any case, that is neither here nor there for your situation. You have a difficult struggle. It seems as though your wife is neither fish nor fowl, but mainly oppositional to you and your faith. She isn’t acting very Buddhist, frankly (I used to be a Zen Buddhist). You should be able to live in peace with a true Buddhist because attachment is a big violation of the Buddhist tenets. I think she’s really muddled up as far as religion goes.

Are you praying using a green scapular? If you can hide it under her side of the mattress or somewhere else she won’t find it, and pray to Mary every day, it might help both you and her.

 

[MBF]

Uhhhhh…why has no one suggested marriage counseling? That’s my first thought here. Someone said that they should go to his priest, but let’s face it, even if she goes she isn’t likely to care what he says. But it does sound like they need a neutral third party to help them with communication and respect, because a tense home environment won’t be good for anyone, especially the children.

She won’t honor the agreement she made before they got married anymore than a lapsed catholic who rediscovered their faith would be willing to honor an agreement not to teach their kids Catholicism. And let’s face it, she is the children’s mother, so there really is no telling her that she isn’t “allowed” or he won’t “let” her teach her own children. (Interestingly enough even courts won’t uphold a clause in a prenup about what religion the children will be raised in.)

Go to counseling, work on communication, respect, and compromise, and then tackle this issue together.

And be aware that if your wife finds out that you are secretly putting your children through your religious rituals she may retaliate, or even leave you.

You’re right on the button about marriage counseling. I have spoken with her even recently that this should be something we should do once our transition is completed. Communication is key. Her idea of communication a couple years ago is that all that was needed is that I must listen to her, and that anything I said contrary to her positions meant I was “talking back”. Her choice of words sometimes leaves much to be desired…English is not her first language, so often I have to count to ten and reflect on what she really meant when we have too heated a discussion.

I made no bones about my obligations as a Catholic parent. She knows what is going on except for the significance of the kids’ first Sacraments. “Secretly” for our situation here is mainly that certain subjects are taboo with mommy and we should not bring them up. She knows what is going on and doesn’t like it, but when possible I try to minimize the impact on her psyche. CCD classes are now during the week rather than on weekends so we can visit her at the new location, or when she visits home. Sunday service occurs as early in the a.m. as possible when we are together so she can sleep in while I take care of our obligations. When possible I enlist the grandparents to babysit on Saturday nights so wife and I can have quality time together before the Sunday routine. Once in a while she and I would begin our Saturdays early enough so the kids could go to a vigil service and she can enjoy them Sunday a.m. Within the scope of my obligations, I try to keep her from being too distressed.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Within the scope of my obligations, I try to keep her from being too distressed.

This statement worries me, it seems as if you are walking on eggshells with your wife. Trying to keep her from exploding. That is what people who are being abused tend to do.

 

[MBF]

One thing you should realize, just as you are doing things without telling her, she may start to do the same. I would prefer to be there, know what is. Wong said, and then be able to help my child recognize errors and truth.

And I really want to second the Vietnamese Catholic Church idea. It is a great way for your kids to honor both their mother and father.

She already had been doing that, in a way. Showing a dtr how to assume a posture towards the Buddha print in the music room and letting her play the crystal bowl I mentioned earlier. And of course one-on-one discourse with them when laying down with them at bedtime.

This weekend I will be “switching out” with my parents. They will be driving up to take over the kids and I will be driving down for some wife time. I won’t be taking them to that church this weekend but next. But I will look into the Vietnamese church at the new location for my own Sunday obligation this weekend…

 

[MBF]

Not only will she start doing things in secret he’s teaching his kids that it’s ok to keep secrets from their mother and do things she disapproves of behind her back. That’s undermining her authority as a parent and his marriage. And of course, eventually the kids will decide that if it’s ok to sneak around behind mom’s back then it’s ok to do the same to dad when they want something that he won’t allow.

…I think I covered the first part, but I can’t determine that the kids will apply the situation about going to church as CCD to everything else that happens in their lives. Of course, I am concerned that this situation will affect their behavior in some fashion.

For instance, once I had been away with my spouse for a weekend and the grandparents had been in charge of purchasing an outfit for my son for his First Communion. I was excited for him and upon returning I asked him if he was happy about the new suit he got while I was away. He declined to answer, saying he didn’t buy anything and did not acknowledge that a shopping trip even occurred. Well, grandparents and I figured out that he was confused and applied the taboo subject to me as well. I discussed the matter with our son and he understood.

But, we have had other instances that were not ideal. …One of our dtrs is very precocious and for a while would announce and repeat the Sign of the Cross in bed while her mother was in bed with the girls. Then she would say “oops!” and then “sorry, I know you don’t like that”. …Another time after reminding everyone that we were going to Skype with Mommy some other evening, the first thing she blurted out to her mother was that they all had been to “church school” just earlier. The moment those words were out there, both our other children froze and stared at her and our son hissed that she should not say that…all in front of my wife on Skype. Poor dtr had a distressed look on her face and I had to escort her away from the other kids to recover. She was teary-eyed and was apologizing to me over and over. Later she attempted to play the keyboard for Mommy, but kept hesitating and staring at me as if she had done something wrong.

I don’t like for our children to feel that way. I don’t want for the children to believe that there are vital secrets to keep and that it is wrong to include Mommy in their religious life. I have struggled to find the correct path for this situation. A regular routine of church and CCD should not include the effect of “rubbing in her face” reality to my wife that the kids are being raised Catholic. Especially since she had threatened divorce in order to expose them to Buddhism. Hence the tongue-in-cheek reference to our being in effect a church underground. One of two things must happen to mitigate the issue I think: either I stop taking the kids to church/CCD and “live and let live” and allow exposure to the temple, or she relents and suppresses her personality or converts (prayer). The first option is impossible for a practicing Catholic parent. The second is in God’s hands and subject to the prayers of all. There’s more about the kids and this issue, but I’d rather not write a book

 

[MBF]

In any case, that is neither here nor there for your situation. You have a difficult struggle. It seems as though your wife is neither fish nor fowl, but mainly oppositional to you and your faith. She isn’t acting very Buddhist, frankly (I used to be a Zen Buddhist). You should be able to live in peace with a true Buddhist because attachment is a big violation of the Buddhist tenets. I think she’s really muddled up as far as religion goes.

Are you praying using a green scapular? If you can hide it under her side of the mattress or somewhere else she won’t find it, and pray to Mary every day, it might help both you and her.

Agreed. I have not considered putting a scapular under her mattress or in her pillowcase, but maybe should try. Wondering how she would react if she discovered it. She could either say nothing, or explode with indignation, or laugh at my “superstition”, or she would never find it. Should I roll the dice, lol? I have a brown scapular…should that have the same effect?

I pray that my prayer life matures. It comes in spurts. One day I just randomly say the Lord’s Prayer throughout the day, or another I might do a rosary in front of a picture of the Sacred Heart. Or I would attend one of the weekday Masses. I need to focus in that area. With God’s help.

 

[MBF]

This statement worries me, it seems as if you are walking on eggshells with your wife. Trying to keep her from exploding. That is what people who are being abused tend to do.

I have been like that. Must admit I have been conditioned by her more volatile period a year or so ago. She could be so unpleasant to be around that my parents deliberately planned their visits around her schedule so they could minimize contact with her. Ironically, she is now staying with them at the new location, lol. But there were times when her outbursts were so severe that I could sense the fight or flight symptoms in my psyche…feeling that my life was in danger. I imagined unpleasant things she could be capable of if she acted on her feelings beyond yelling or even throwing things once in a while.

At home when we were together I couldn’t do anything right when it comes to cooking, cleaning, yard work, laundry, organizing, watering plants, dressing myself, dressing the children, brushing their teeth, choosing my reading material, etc, etc, and etc. In most cases I can say that I do need improvement in those areas, but I suppose I don’t work well with negative reinforcement.

But, hey, absence makes the heart grow fonder. She really misses me and says she recognizes that I am a voice of reason (when she actually listens), and that I am her “rock”. Especially when her emotions sway her to quit her current job and apply for a new one, and then regret the decision and try to reverse it within days. Too late…she now has a NEW new job at the new location, and we haven’t even completed the move yet. Now it’s my fault that I wasn’t forceful enough to stop her from making that decision, and I am told it’s my responsibility to keep that from happening again. She is an adult, but sometimes I can’t treat with her as one. It’s really frustrating. I wish I could have that “you make me want to be a better man” feeling. Cake dream I suppose.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I have been like that. Must admit I have been conditioned by her more volatile period a year or so ago. She could be so unpleasant to be around that my parents deliberately planned their visits around her schedule so they could minimize contact with her. Ironically, she is now staying with them at the new location, lol. But there were times when her outbursts were so severe that I could sense the fight or flight symptoms in my psyche…feeling that my life was in danger. I imagined unpleasant things she could be capable of if she acted on her feelings beyond yelling or even throwing things once in a while.

At home when we were together I couldn’t do anything right when it comes to cooking, cleaning, yard work, laundry, organizing, watering plants, dressing myself, dressing the children, brushing their teeth, choosing my reading material, etc, etc, and etc. In most cases I can say that I do need improvement in those areas, but I suppose I don’t work well with negative reinforcement.

But, hey, absence makes the heart grow fonder. She really misses me and says she recognizes that I am a voice of reason (when she actually listens), and that I am her “rock”. Especially when her emotions sway her to quit her current job and apply for a new one, and then regret the decision and try to reverse it within days. Too late…she now has a NEW new job at the new location, and we haven’t even completed the move yet. Now it’s my fault that I wasn’t forceful enough to stop her from making that decision, and I am told it’s my responsibility to keep that from happening again. She is an adult, but sometimes I can’t treat with her as one. It’s really frustrating. I wish I could have that “you make me want to be a better man” feeling. Cake dream I suppose.

Eeeek, dude. Really? I think she is emotionally abusive. Forget the religion thing, it seems to just be another way to intimidate you and force her way on the family. There is something wrong with her, I think she needs counseling and you need to stop letting her get her way so much.

Did I already post this book on this thread? It’s done wonders for so many people.

Boundaries

You deserve to be treated with respect.

 

[aspirant]

I will look into the Vietnamese church at the new location for my own Sunday obligation this weekend…

 

[MariaG]

You will be in my prayers. You have a tough road. Let us know if you find a new church!

 

[MBF]

Went to that Vietnamese church at the new location. Nothing is in English…not the bulletin nor the website. I was probably the only non-Vietnamese at the service, but am not fazed…experienced the same when going to the local church here and the one close to the in-laws’ in Vietnam.

Was struck that immediately after the service they had a Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament, which was a big shot in the arm spiritually for me. And then instead of processing out the entire congregation stuck around as the priest led all in a devotional to Our Lady of La Vang. There is a familiar painting on the wall honoring the Holy Martyrs who were persecuted in the early 19th century.

I had sent a message to the church office inquiring of Vietnamese language classes, but have received no response. A friend of ours said it could be very difficult to find someone fluent in both English and Vietnamese who was involved in teaching the language to non-natives like myself.

 

[aspirant]

Nothing is in English…not the bulletin nor the website. I was probably the only non-Vietnamese at the service

Been there, done that.

Was struck that immediately after the service they had a Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament, which was a big shot in the arm spiritually for me. And then instead of processing out the entire congregation stuck around as the priest led all in a devotional to Our Lady of La Vang. There is a familiar painting on the wall honoring the Holy Martyrs who were persecuted in the early 19th century.

Awesome.

I do hope you get some sort of word back from the church.

 

[StMonicaGuideMe]

No. Any and all of this will indeed undermine their faith. They will start to learn how to meditate, not to pray, and the two belief systems will be muddled up in their minds. They want to please both Mommy and Daddy and it is very likely that they will end up being nothing, because in effect, each parent is trying to brainwash them (that is how they will end up thinking).

She made a deal with you, not to interfere in raising the children as Catholics. What she is doing is reneging on the deal. She has been abusive by slamming your faith (in front of the children? I hope not.) and that must stop. She has no negotiating power from where she stands. There is no compromise, unless you want your children to be agnostics or atheists. I guess they could end up Buddhists, but it usually doesn’t work out that way. If there are religious wars in the house, the kids just throw up their hands and walk away.

You make a good point, Juliane. But to the non-Catholic, they believe they’re doing the morally right thing and would rather break the promise of raising them Catholic than go through with something they believe is wrong (so I’ve been told).

I’m just confused as to why she is so antagonistic about the faith. Stick the questions to her firmly, and don’t waiver:

-What is she afraid will happen if they are raised in the church? She must give tangible examples.
-Challenge her on her “fears”; does she think they will lose out on some eternal reward if they don’t become Buddhists? If she says “yes”, then she doesn’t understand her own religion too well If she says, “no”, then tell her that in the Catholic Church, we do risk losing our souls if we are not with Christ. This simple difference alone should sway any RATIONAL person. But…in these cases…it’s not always a reasonable mind at work, and don’t discount any evil influences, either.

God Bless you and your family.

PS: Put a Green Scapular under her side of the mattress. Have it blessed before you do. Say “Immaculate Heart of Mary, Pray for Us Now, and at the Hour of our Death” once a day for her and for you. It may take years, but Mary PROMISED conversions through it. Just have to have faith!

 

[Demetra2]

This is the time to perservere in the faith. Stick to your guns about raising your kids Catholic and do not allow your wife to undermine their Catholic faith. Unfortunately your wife is blindly cooperating with evil by doing this and you have to stop it. Raising your kids to love their Catholic faith will be the best gift that you could ever give them. Nothing and I do mean nothing else could ever compare to this in importance.It is your duty now to protect their character and their souls.To accomplish this you must have a frank discussion with your wife about respect for your beliefs. Then you must attend church every Sunday and bring the kids. No exceptions. If your wife wants to join you that would be good but not essential. As a husband your mission is to also get your wife to heaven in addition to your kids but the kids are depending on you now for strength and guidance that will effect their entire lives. If possible you should start getting involved at church and make certain the kids are in CCD and any youth groups.Make plans to send them to Catholic schools. Try to make some good Catholic friends through your involvement at church. Go to Eucharistic adoration and explain this to the kids. Pray the rosary daily and explain this to the kids.Buy good Catholic books to enhance your faith and have them in the house. As the father you have a huge influence over your kids if they see you practicing and living out your faith. Immerse yourself in your faith and don’t give up. Do not allow your wife to expose them to another religion before thay can embrace their own religion. It is not fair to the kids and counter productive. I will pray for you.