Catholic or "Christian"?

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CopticChristian said:
In the Byzantine the greeting on entering the Church and meeting prior to and after mass or at various and sundry times you will hear…

Slava Isusu Christu

and the response is

Slava na v’iki

And this I offer to you to figure out what it means.
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I totally had to cheat.

Glory To Jesus Christ!". “Glory For Ever!”

Ask.com
 
LinuxUser said:
To clarify if one stood in a garage that does not make that one a car and even if said person called himself a car he would not be one. Many in the Protestant denominations and Catholic denomination are believers but not everyone is. As Paul said you will know them by their fruits
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Mormons and Jehovah witness have fruits, do you believe that they are believers?
 
LinuxUser said:
To clarify if one stood in a garage that does not make that one a car and even if said person called himself a car he would not be one. Many in the Protestant denominations and Catholic denomination are believers but not everyone is. As Paul said you will know them by their fruits
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So, the question is what do you define as fruits?
 
LinuxUser said:
It’s in the Bible, check it out
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I
have been thinking about this thread. I think it can be said that Protestants and Catholics of all stripes are Christians but not all in both groups are, it takes more than a label to be a Christian. Now I hope that makes sense.
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To clarify if one stood in a garage that does not make that one a car and even if said person called himself a car he would not be one. Many in the Protestant denominations and Catholic denomination are believers but not everyone is. As Paul said you will know them by their fruits
Click to expand...
So, the question is what do you define as fruits?
It’s in the Bible, check it out
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These are your words. These are from the Bible:
15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

By their fruits you shall know them. Matthew 7:16
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I’m a Catholic, you’re a Catholic and to go back and forth over what we believe the Spirit to be leading us to see in these verses would solve nothing. That is what Protestants do. The Church as you know has only interpreted a few verses officially:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=68624

So we can look at these verses any way we want to as long as we do not interpret them out of the confines of Catholic Teaching. So since there is no official interpretation on this verse and I usually ask my priest about this stuff and I couldn’t due to time constraint I asked one of my Fathers. John Chrysosostom offers the following relevant understanding.

**
For among heretics one may often find actual goodness, but among those whom I was mentioning, by no means.
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What then, it may be said, if in these things too they counterfeit? Nay, they will be easily detected; for such is the nature of this way, in which I commanded men to walk, painful and irksome; but the hypocrite would not choose to take pains, but to make a show only; wherefore also he is easily convicted. Thus, inasmuch as He had said, there be few that find it, He clears them out again from among those, who find it not, yet feign so to do, by commanding us not to look to them that wear the masks only, but to them who in reality pursue it.
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**

I interpret the fruits to be of those that are Baptized and regenerated by Water Baptism infused with the gifts of Faith,Hope & Charity. I may see these gifts working in those that have been baptized. I believe that Protestants are Christians by their Baptism and have the gifts of Faith, Hope & Charity. Charity is love of God and in fact if you believe that Corinthians is telling you that as the greatest endures forever, then God is pure love. In that regard to love God, is to love his Son, to love his Son you must love his head and his body. His Body is the Church, One Holy Catholic and Apostolic.

I know them by their fruits. Is this how you see it?
 
One simple way of probing what they mean would be to ask them: “if Catholics are not Chrsitan, then what are they?”
THAT is when you will hear a lot of rationalistic tap-dancing.
 
JustaServant said:
One simple way of probing what they mean would be to ask them: “if Catholics are not Chrsitan, then what are they?”
THAT is when you will hear a lot of rationalistic tap-dancing.
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In my opinion, what this does is allows them to do as you say, and then answer as they have been taught. The answer may be as they have been taught “cult”. If you are prepared to go down that road that is OK.

In NLP, one of the tenets of communication is reframing. In order to maintain communication so that your position is heard and so that you can have influence it is important to know this:

He who reframes the conversation controls the conversation.

So if you ask this question the conversation remains in control of the other. If you reframe it then you can direct it. This is why in this situation I believe it is best to reframe because then you can control where it goes.
 
JustaServant said:
One simple way of probing what they mean would be to ask them: “if Catholics are not Chrsitan, then what are they?”
THAT is when you will hear a lot of rationalistic tap-dancing.
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Good answer! 👍 But, the main problem is in my school people think the word “Christian” is synonymous with “Protestant” :sad_yes:
 
followingtheway said:
Good answer! 👍 But, the main problem is in my school people think the word “Christian” is synonymous with “Protestant” :sad_yes:
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And the beginning of this thread was Catholic or Christian. The world is filled with differing opinions, thoughts, etc. Definitions come by usage. This is why I believe it is important to define the terms early in a conversation so the record is straight from the beginning.
 
CopticChristian said:
I appreciate your honesty. Your discomfort may be more than that. I can say without doubt that I have never been to, ever heard, ever read anything that is trash talk or anything like what you have heard in the Catholic Church. I tried to start an apologetic group at my Church and the pastor just did not feel that was necessary. The Churches I go to are interested in family, youth, prayer, building up the faith and no where do I expereince what it is you are describing as variance in the Churches.

This may be the start of your looking for something else.
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Actually, though I am a member of an AG church, that’s solely because the local AG congregation was the best church I could find in my neighborhood. I have no other history with the denomination or with Pentecostalism in general. But I remain very happy with my pastor (who is a good mensch, an excellent teacher and a learned Bible scholar with a legit doctorate in OT) and with my local congregation. If I were to choose my church by doctrine, I’d be a blend of Anglican and Lutheran, with a dash of Orthodoxy. I’m fairly close to Catholic too, but there are some severe sticking points.
 
Izdaari said:
Actually, though I am a member of an AG church, that’s solely because the local AG congregation was the best church I could find in my neighborhood. I have no other history with the denomination or with Pentecostalism in general. But I remain very happy with my pastor (who is a good mensch, an excellent teacher and a learned Bible scholar with a legit doctorate in OT) and with my local congregation. If I were to choose my church by doctrine, I’d be a blend of Anglican and Lutheran, with a dash of Orthodoxy. I’m fairly close to Catholic too, but there are some severe sticking points.
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We are free to worship as close to home or as far from home as we like. The attendance at a particular church means that you are being filled with their theology. It is the nature of what is. I could go to a Fundamentalist church because it was next door and have to acknowledge that what I am hearing in many different ways is Fundamentalism. I don’t have that kind of tolerance.
 
CopticChristian said:
We are free to worship as close to home or as far from home as we like. The attendance at a particular church means that you are being filled with their theology. It is the nature of what is. I could go to a Fundamentalist church because it was next door and have to acknowledge that what I am hearing in many different ways is Fundamentalism. I don’t have that kind of tolerance.
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No, I don’t have to go to a very local church, but I prefer to. I find walking or biking to church relaxing and thoughtful, much more so than driving or taking the bus. Even so, if I didn’t like this church so much, I live in a big city and there are plenty of other churches close enough, of many different Protestant denominations, and Catholic and Orthodox too.

Why, yes, when I listen to my pastor’s sermons, he’s giving me his theology. But I have seldom found anything major in it to take exception to. If I commonly did, I’d probably go elsewhere.
 
followingtheway said:
Isn’t anyone else annoyed by the question “Are you Catholic or Christian?”

I’ve been asked this several times by both Protestants and shockingly Catholics. :eek: It’s been especially annoying when I tell them “Catholic is Christian” and they say “No! Christians sing and have bands and pastors” :doh2:

:dts: Anyone else encountered this problem or was asked this question?
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That angers me too. It happens a lot to me.
 
Izdaari said:
No, I don’t have to go to a very local church, but I prefer to. I find walking or biking to church relaxing and thoughtful, much more so than driving or taking the bus. Even so, if I didn’t like this church so much, I live in a big city and there are plenty of other churches close enough, of many different Protestant denominations, and Catholic and Orthodox too.

Why, yes, when I listen to my pastor’s sermons, he’s giving me his theology. But I have seldom found anything major in it to take exception to. If I commonly did, I’d probably go elsewhere.
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I am bothered by Faith alone, Bible alone, Extrinsic Justification and no Church Authority that is usually tied into Bible alone.
 
JustaServant said:
One simple way of probing what they mean would be to ask them: “if Catholics are not Chrsitan, then what are they?”
THAT is when you will hear a lot of rationalistic tap-dancing.
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And that tap-dancing hurts my ears. I wonder have you got some creative answers to that question. 😃
 
CopticChristian said:
And the beginning of this thread was Catholic or Christian. The world is filled with differing opinions, thoughts, etc. Definitions come by usage. This is why I believe it is important to define the terms early in a conversation so the record is straight from the beginning.
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+1 Yes. Define the terms right from the beginning. When they are defined intelligent discussion follows becuase everyone is on the same page. A wise priest said Definitions are important and they matter, and I agree with him.
CopticChristian said:
I am bothered by Faith alone, Bible alone, Extrinsic Justification and no Church Authority that is usually tied into Bible alone.
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+1, I really enjoy reading your posts. They are solid and Orthodox in belief and in line with the Magisterium of the Church. Thanks for posting them and helping me learn about my faith as well

God bless you for all the hard work that you do.
 
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