Catholic or Democratic Socialism?

  • Thread starter Thread starter catholic_knighthood
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Socialism (not communism) is NOT incompatible with Catholicism.

Also please tell me which developed countries who have had socialist governments have fallen to oppression and strife?
 
Last edited:
How can it be a loaded question. You are the one who said it leads to oppression and strife. I simply asked what developed countries which have had socialist governments have fallen to oppression and strife.
Seems this is another assertion you have made that you cannot back up with anything just like the alleged teaching that socialism (not communism) is incompatible with Catholicism.
 
Last edited:
thistle said:
How do you come up with the position that socialism (not communism) is incompatible with Catholicism.
Click to expand...
By invoking a very big Fallacy of the Excluded Middle.

There were socialist theories before Marx, so he didn’t invent socialism, and certainly many socialists even after the Russian Revolution had very little time for Bolsheviks and other hard left types. The strains of social democracy found in Europe still support free market economics, but seek to build social safety nets to ensure that as many people as possible enjoy the benefits of economic productivity. Most are not more “statist” than the United States is, and really, when you look at it closely, the US is nearly as socialist as any industrialized country, it’s just that this constant equating of “socialism” with “Marxism” and “Communism” means the US simply does the social safety badly.
 
Does the church think (and people here) think that socialized Medicare and Medicaid should be abolished? … because that would be a disaster for the poor and elderly.
 
So far as I understand it, the Church has shown great favor for universal health care.
’
This is the problem with ideological positions that lack any nuance. If you decide “Socialsm=Marxism”, then literally vast parts of the modern democratic and developed state become illicit.
 
The fact is that “Democratic Socialism” is a far-left concept, and you cannot be Catholic (or even Christian, technically) if you support that type of political platform. Far leftism is antithetical to Christendom.
 
EXdrinker said:
Seriously, this has been the ongoing understanding of the Catholic Church. It isn’t even a question at this point.
Click to expand...
That article is about communism and not the socialism in developed countries today and is about governments who control everything. Americans are so paranoid about communism that they equate any form of socialism with it.
 
thistle said:
In short you cannot point me to the Church teaching!
Click to expand...
Pope Leo XIII criticizes “socialism” and “liberalism.” Against “socialism” he affirms the right to private property. As for liberalism he states that the state may not favor the rich while neglecting the poor. (#10)
Pope John Paul II
Centesimus Annus
The Hundredth Year
Click to expand...
The taxes in New York are crushing, the highest in the country adjusted for the cost of living:
Overall Rank (1=Lowest)StateEffective Total State & Local Tax Rates on Median U.S. Household*Annual State & Local Taxes on Median U.S. Household*% Difference Between State & U.S. Avg.**Annual State & Local Taxes on Median State Household***Adjusted Overall Rank (based on Cost of Living Index)
48New York13.74%$7,97827.71%$10,07451
But the liberal elite get richer just as Pope Leo XIII warned:

wrrv.com

Governor Cuomo Gives Himself Two Big Raises, Becomes Highest Paid

Governor Cuomo is getting two raises in two years that will make him the highest paid governor in the US. Did he do something to deserve the raise?
wrrv.com wrrv.com
 
Erikaspirit16 said:
40.png
KMC:
How about “Thou shall not kill?”
Click to expand...
All sorts of exceptions. If you are referring to abortion, I invite you to quote some passages in the NT that explicitly talk about abortion. It wasn’t a big concern–despite the fact abortions were common.

As for what Jesus thought, when asked what the greatest commandment was, he said it was “love your neighbor as yourself.” So did St. Paul.
Click to expand...
Why the limitation to the New Testament? Moral law is eternal. (Also, please don’t go down the road of trying to make comparisons of the 10 Commandments / moral laws, with the juridical and ceremonial Jewish laws in Exodus and Deuteronomy, which is usually how I’ve seen these things go. There is much written about why those laws were for a specific group of people, the Jews, for a specific period in time.)

Jesus summarized the 10 Commandments…the first 3 commandments are about loving God and the last 7 are about loving your neighbor. They are timeless.

So ALL of the moral teachings of God are to be followed…you mentioned 3, but don’t cherry pick them out of all of revelation.

So, from a Catholic perspective, neither party follows 100% of God’s moral teachings, however, one in particular has codified the support of specific intrinsic evils (abortion, embryonic stem cell research, same sex marriage) into its platform.
 
Erikaspirit16 said:
40.png
KMC:
How about “Thou shall not kill?”
Click to expand...
All sorts of exceptions. If you are referring to abortion, I invite you to quote some passages in the NT that explicitly talk about abortion. It wasn’t a big concern–despite the fact abortions were common.
Click to expand...
perhaps to state my position another way: which political party thinks its OK to cut, dismember, or chemically burn this:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Last edited:
Gingersnaps4 said:
The fact is that “Democratic Socialism” is a far-left concept, and you cannot be Catholic (or even Christian, technically) if you support that type of political platform. Far leftism is antithetical to Christendom.
Click to expand...
Using your logic, you cannot be a conservative if you support a leader of low moral stature? Say he had five children from three different wives, holds tyrants in high regards and disrespects the Rule of Law. I would have to say that embracing that kind of leader would put conservatives in no position to cast any moral judgments.

Unfortunately, I am more worried in these times of conservative ideologies (or the lack there of…). Remember, the dystopias that many here are fretting about start with a governments that does not respect the rule of law, favors an elite class and considers the press an; “enemy of the people”.

“Socialism” is just a catch phrase that resonates with many people. However, in regards to health care being controlled by the government…the reality is that it cannot be accomplished under our current infrastructure. Even during the first Democratic debates the question came up about the logistics of taking away employer provided private insurance from a hundred and eighty million Americans; it’s just not going to happen.

Make certain you have no sins before casting any stones.
 
Yes they definitely are far left with most of their social/moral issues.
 
Leo2014 said:
Using your logic, you cannot be a conservative if you support a leader of low moral stature? Say he had five children from three different wives, holds tyrants in high regards and disrespects the Rule of Law. I would have to say that embracing that kind of leader would put conservatives in no position to cast any moral judgments.
Click to expand...
If said person were supporting the euthanization and abortion of fellow human beings like the far left does then yes, I would say that a Christian couldn’t support them
In good conscience. As for dictators, as I recall most people that supported the last president didn’t have a problem with him yucking it up with Castro when he’s no better than Kim, really. I don’t think that trying to make progress with countries that aren’t allies is necessarily a bad thing. Obviously the left doesn’t either since they were ok with Castro.
 
Well, they’re predominantly Protestant countries, so little wonder. That has precious little to do with their economic systems. But the predominantly Catholic countries in Europe are little different.
 
For democratic socialists, the moral and economic systems are a package deal. No one that supports that is ever going to say let’s cover healthcare for all so that there is no need for abortion. If you want a good example of how it would work here (if we had a tiny population like them), look at Canada. They don’t have religious freedom, pro-life opinions are vehemently stamped out, etc. as for economics, our population is too large and unhealthy compared to other socialistic countries to support those ideas so I’m not going to go into that part.
 
I live in Canada. Pro lifers aren’t being stamped out. Your post seems quite over the top and hyperbolic
 
thistle said:
Also please tell me which developed countries who have had socialist governments have fallen to oppression and strife?
Click to expand...
Hmmm. Let’s see. In AMerica you will lose your job if you don’t believe in gay marriage. In Norway, social service take away your children if someone anonymous doesn’t approve of the way you raise them. In Norther Ireland (I believe) just this week, a judge ruled in favor of forcing a woman to abort her child. (fortunately it was overturned) These are all examples of the cute social justice warriors applying brute force to supress society. Give them a little more power and you will see the prison camps that the left is currently shouting about.
 
That’s casting things in a peculiar light. People lose their jobs when they make anti-gay slurs for the same reason they would lose their jobs if they made a racist slur. Employers retain some right to decide who works for them. If I had an employee going around making anti-gay statements I’d certainly call them in to inform them that while they are free to make whatever public pronouncement they like, I also have the right to decide whether they remain in my employ.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top