"Catholic-Orthodox talks on papacy" document from catholic culture; its implications?

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Roman Catholic Outside of Rome

As your Church gets small and small here America as in Italy. Look at Italy per-say Muslim are growing faster then the RC population, that means in future Italy will be come a Muslim country within my life time. Plus that tells us that the Vatican will become a mosque. Remember time march on…
This does not address the question, and yet adds to the volume of anti-Catholic sentiment now rendered.

As an Eastern Catholic who shares a common Byzantine liturgical tradition with the Russian Orthodox Church, and one who laments the fate of Hagia Sophia from which our great tradition was gifted to us all, it pains me to think that one who enjoys this rich inheritance would wish that any great cathedral devoted to Christ be lost in such manner. That is dreadful speculation and unbecoming anyone professing to be a Christian, particularly an Eastern Christian.
 
This is how the CCEO phrases it:

{Canon 42} Just as, by the Lord’s decision, Saint Peter and the other Apostles constitute one college, so in a similar way the Roman Pontiff, successor of Peter, and the bishops, successors of the Apostles, are joined together.

{Canon 43} The bishop of the Church of Rome, in whom resides the office (munus) given in special way by the Lord to Peter, first of the Apostles and to be transmitted to his successors, is head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ and Pastor of the entire Church on earth; therefore, in virtue of his office (munus) he enjoys supreme, full, immediate and universal ordinary power in the Church which he can always freely exercise.

{Canon 44} 1. The Roman Pontiff obtains full and supreme power in the Church by means of legitimate election accepted by him together with episcopal consecration; therefore, one who is already a bishop obtains this same power from the moment he accepts his election to the pontificate, but if the one elected lacks the episcopal character, he is to be ordained a bishop immediately. 2. If it should happen that the Roman Pontiff resigns his office (munus), it is required for validity that he makes the resignation freely and that it be duly manifested, but not that it be accepted by anyone.

{Canon 45} 1. The Roman Pontiff, by virtue of his office (munus), not only has power over the entire Church but also possesses a primacy of ordinary power over all the eparchies and groupings of them by which the proper, ordinary and immediate power which bishops possess in the eparchy entrusted to their care is both strengthened and safeguarded. 2. The Roman Pontiff, in fulfilling the office (munus) of the supreme pastor of the Church is always united in communion with the other bishops and with the entire Church; however, he has the right, according to the needs of the Church, to determine the manner, either personal or collegial, of exercising this function. 3. There is neither appeal nor recourse against a sentence or decree of the Roman Pontiff.

{Canon 46} 1. In exercising his office (munus) the Roman Pontiff is assisted by the bishops who aid him in various ways and among these is the synod of bishops; moreover the cardinals, the Roman curia, pontifical legates and other persons and various institutes assist him according to the needs of the times; all these persons and institutes carry out the task committed to them in his name and by his authority for the good of all the Churches, according to the norm of law established by the Roman Pontiff himself. 2. The participation of patriarchs and other hierarchs who preside over Churches sui iuris in the synod of bishops is regulated by special norms established by the Roman Pontiff.
 
Any group without a leader is weakened. Wether we call him pope or patriarch is trivial. Unity is important. Ecspesialy to show others our example.
 
Roman Catholic Outside of Rome

As your Church gets small and small here America as in Italy. Look at Italy per-say Muslim are growing faster then the RC population, that means in future Italy will be come a Muslim country within my life time. Plus that tells us that the Vatican will become a mosque. Remember time march on…
You might want to cool your jets my friend. All one has to do is google Putin and the shrinking population of Russia, and why it’s shriinking. Then follow the trail of religious bigotry and suppression by the Russian state, etc etc. The direction you’re taking is not helpful to this discussion, and it will derail the thread.
 
Steve b,

Since May 2007 the ROCOR, ROC-MP, OCA have been in communion. But then there was a schism of Metropolitan Agafangel Pashkovsky of Odessa, and followers, that did not accept the communion. (He was suspended.)
 
And, conversely, if the Patriarch of Moscow wanted to become Roman Catholic, he would have to accept Roman Catholic teaching including the role of the Pope. But I don’t see any reason to think that the Pope is going to become Orthodox or that the MP is going to become RC, except in some naive fantasy.
I agree Peter.

Although, a lot of what we discuss with relish around here is fantasy and myth. Reality seems to get in the way of a good discussion! 😃
 
I don’t agree; Patriarch of Rome is much better not latin church. Who knows it could maybe 50 years. The Patriarch of Rome would stay in Italy that would be under his control not in other counties.
This is an interesting comment, and I agree.

The Metropoltan See of Rome was suburbicarian Italy originally, and the bishop of Rome could safely be regarded as having unique primacy right there, no doubt about it.

Today he is recognized as the Primate of Italy, and that is a much larger territory than originally. Patriarch of Roma and Primate of Italy has a nice sound to it.
 
That’s interesting, but not relevant to your assertion. Should the Patriarch of Moscow, as you put it for the Patriarch of Rome, “stay in” Russia?
I think so.

In fact I think the Russian Synod could reasonably be divided into some smaller units for church administration, but I don’t think such a thing would ever happen in the same way I don’t think the Papacy will ever be restricted to Italy again.

As for ROCOR, it is in communion with it’s mother church now, but still it is international in scope. I also think church organizations like ROCOR should ideally dissolve into the local Orthodox churches where they are now at work. It more or less occupies a position analogous to Opus Dei in the the Papal church (in the sense that it crosses international bounds and overlaps other local jurisdictions, not in the way it is run or how it accumulates members). I hope that eventually the various regional segments of ROCOR merge into the regional/national hierarchies that the church is currently working to set up.
 
So by logical extension you would also agree that the Patriarch of Moscow should “stay in” Russia?
I’ll be surprised if that happens, but even if it did I’m sure it would not induce the Pope of Rome to “stay in Italy”.
 
I’ll be surprised if that happens, but even if it did I’m sure it would not induce the Pope of Rome to “stay in Italy”.
If you mean his reach, you’re correct.

When Jesus said to Peter “feed and rule my sheep”, Jesus wasn’t handcuffing Peter to a certain region. Peter’s reach is the world, and for 2000 years it’s gone into the most dangerous spots on the planet to convert souls.

For 2000 years the papacy has been here. It has weathered all kinds of storms internal and external. Jesus guranteed it would survive and everyone can see it has. I’m thinking out loud here, who in their right mind thinks they can overcome those odds? Adversaries to the papacy are and have been legion. And of whatever sort, it’s probably safe to say, that attack will continue, till God call’s the end to the world. The papacy has Divine promises and time on it’s side. It just has to wait, because it will out live all the adversaries. Until the end of the world, sad to say, Satan with his rapatious appetite, roams the world like a roaring lion devouring souls. But as Paul said to the Church of Rome,

" The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. " [Rom 16:20]

I’m just wondering how he defines “soon” 😉
 
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