Catholic Perspectives on Climate Change and Population

[aspawloski4th]

Can you clarify where the differences are between those who are degreed meteorologist, and scientists that are climatologists? Perhaps the difference comes from the approach to the same information? (not to imply that Al Gore is a climatologist) - but others…

Most schools with a meteorology program require climatology course work, my school Central Michigan University is no exception. While there are climatologists, it’s a rarity to find a climatology degree. The understanding when one gets a meteorology degree is that they understand weather past(climotology) , present( a meteorologist at the weather service issuing a warning for severe weather current, and weather future(weather forcasting). No school devides those into 3 degrees, all meteorlogists should have a good understanding of all 3 aspects. My course work and CMU has a bit more than averarage coursework in climatology, so I have good understanding of climate patterns. By the way in my meteorological courses, I got my best grades in climatology… So a climotologist is a meteorologist who chose when seeking employment a occupation that uses the climatology part of his training rather than the weather forcasting part. The meteorology professor at CMU whoem I had when I went there and who is still incharge of the program today, DR R Neil Mower came here from England and his politics is typical British liberal, with the exception of being very anti-global warming, because he is a meteorologist first. Anyone spouting off Al gore type rhetoric in the meteorology program is likely to get flunked out of the program for spewing such rubbish. Go to woodtv.com and go to meteologist Bill Steffen’s blog and read through it. He has been a tv meteorologist since a was in kindegarden, and is very well respected and never questioned where I come from, and he presents evedence that we might have global cooling going on if theres any climate change. With the population issues I’m with you there. But with global warming I don’t buy it and I’m going to continue leaving my so called carbon foot print till I am pushing up daisies. The only ways for me not to leave a carbon footprint are, to not drive which means no earning a living, no church and no taking care of my DISABLED wife. No heat in my house and cold showers only. yes I know there are green technology cars out there, but they are newer which means no 500 dollar green tech cars yet, they havent been around long enough to be reliable as a traditional car, and they are cracker boxes. If I get made disabled or killed from a car crash, there is no one to take care of my physically and emotionally impaired wife. None of my wife’s doctors offices are on a busline. Most of the areas in Grand Rapids area are too far out from down town for the bus to go out to. With the situation for us as it is, its just best I drive that airpolluting car to work and my wife to her apointments. CO2 is doesn’t compose even 1 % of our atmosphere, it’s silly to think it can cause appocolyptic climate changes.

 

[4elise]

Most schools with a meteorology program require climatology course work, my school Central Michigan University is no exception. While there are climatologists, it’s a rarity to find a climatology degree. The understanding when one gets a meteorology degree is that they understand weather past(climotology) , present( a meteorologist at the weather service issuing a warning for severe weather current, and weather future(weather forcasting). No school devides those into 3 degrees, all meteorlogists should have a good understanding of all 3 aspects. My course work and CMU has a bit more than averarage coursework in climatology, so I have good understanding of climate patterns. By the way in my meteorological courses, I got my best grades in climatology… So a climotologist is a meteorologist who chose when seeking employment a occupation that uses the climatology part of his training rather than the weather forcasting part. The meteorology professor at CMU whoem I had when I went there and who is still incharge of the program today, DR R Neil Mower came here from England and his politics is typical British liberal, with the exception of being very anti-global warming, because he is a meteorologist first. Anyone spouting off Al gore type rhetoric in the meteorology program is likely to get flunked out of the program for spewing such rubbish. Go to woodtv.com and go to meteologist Bill Steffen’s blog and read through it. He has been a tv meteorologist since a was in kindegarden, and is very well respected and never questioned where I come from, and he presents evedence that we might have global cooling going on if theres any climate change. With the population issues I’m with you there. But with global warming I don’t buy it and I’m going to continue leaving my so called carbon foot print till I am pushing up daisies. The only ways for me not to leave a carbon footprint are, to not drive which means no earning a living, no church and no taking care of my DISABLED wife. No heat in my house and cold showers only. yes I know there are green technology cars out there, but they are newer which means no 500 dollar green tech cars yet, they havent been around long enough to be reliable as a traditional car, and they are cracker boxes. If I get made disabled or killed from a car crash, there is no one to take care of my physically and emotionally impaired wife. None of my wife’s doctors offices are on a busline. Most of the areas in Grand Rapids area are too far out from down town for the bus to go out to. With the situation for us as it is, its just best I drive that airpolluting car to work and my wife to her apointments. CO2 is doesn’t compose even 1 % of our atmosphere, it’s silly to think it can cause appocolyptic climate changes.

aspawloski - first as you and I have discussed this several times over the last year - I hope your wife is doing ok - and as she is your primary responsibility - you are a good husband and do a wonderful job getting her to all her appointments -

Thank you also for your clarification of the differences as you see them between meterologist and climatologist - and I believe this of course as it was your personal experience. Greenhouse gas is not, to my understanding, only CO2 but methane as produced by CAFOs - so this is one area that I’ve changed - giving up meat and dairy about five years ago. What I’ve read about cap and trade indicates this actually makes the the situation worse - so wouldn’t advocate that!

I know you do not believe in our impact on the climate - I do, and will continue to take actions to mitigate my personal contribution to the best I can BECAUSE I think I should. the OP here was that I was grateful that there had been an articulation of how Catholics view this issue in light of our faith and belief that we are the children of God.

 

[4elise]

They own catholicclimatecovenant.org…Nothing gets put on that server by mistake.

Intentional because they receive funding from those porn sits for page hits…no matter if you click the links themselves or not…that’s how it works.

FYI
I called and while out received a call thanking me for advising them of this - they were grateful and said that they will address this ASAP - apparently their site had been hacked before - I guess there are some who would take pleasure in discrediting Catholics - if big corporations can be hacked (googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2010/03/is-your-site-hacked-new-message-center.html) a non profit with limited resources could be an easy target.

My suggestion to you in the future if you come across this kind of thing on any site is to advise the owners immediately because to assume it is intentional is uncharitable - and in my opinion apparently also unjustified. I would also suggest that you DO NOT post the links to the porn on a forum such as this because it could be a temptation to some to investigate, when they would otherwise not have done so. With your computer skills perhaps you could offer them a suggestion on how to avoid this type of thing in the future

Your natural skeptism is a good thing - but I think it should also be tempered with charity. I think it is always better to assume people have good intentions - and that there is an error that needs to be corrected.
Blessings,

 

[kimmielittle]

FYI
I called and while out received a call thanking me for advising them of this - they were grateful and said that they will address this ASAP - apparently their site had been hacked before - I guess there are some who would take pleasure in discrediting Catholics - if big corporations can be hacked (googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2010/03/is-your-site-hacked-new-message-center.html) a non profit with limited resources could be an easy target.

If it had been hacked before…doesn’t it stand to reason that their tech would be watching?

If they know people are out to discredit Catholics…why not check content daily? Do they not have a responsibility to other Catholics?

My suggestion to you in the future if you come across this kind of thing on any site is to advise the owners immediately because to assume it is intentional is uncharitable - and in my opinion apparently also unjustified.

Who is responsible for web page content?

I would also suggest that you DO NOT post the links to the porn on a forum such as this because it could be a temptation to some to investigate, when they would otherwise not have done so.

My warning here, to others, about a page link ** you posted**, at least warns others of content. You provided the link in this thread.…I provided the warning in this thread. Where better?

Good Stewardship comes in many forms …huh?

With your computer skills perhaps you could offer them a suggestion on how to avoid this type of thing in the future

There are plenty of FREE WebMaster tools online and you can get fairly inexpensive ones in stores…Best advise…If you represent as Catholic Protect your content. This isn’t the only web pages owned by this group

Your natural skeptism is a good thing - but I think it should also be tempered with charity.

You are correct, I’ve learned to not be very gullible . I prefer you, instead of calling it ‘skepticism’ A term used by people who wish to degrade those of us who don’t believe the hyperbole of IPCC ] To be called, ‘careful’ , ‘cautious’ , ‘critical thinking’… or one who uses logic The use of ‘Skepticism’ services people ill, IMHO. There are soooo very many other words to use without resorting to "skepticism ". or ‘skeptic’…don’t you think?

I think it is always better to assume people have good intentions -

There are many good intentions…or good intentions stated, by some. Some of which aren’t too healthy for our souls. IMHO…Catholic Health Association and Sr. Keehan…to name one.

As always, just my thoughts

 

[kmcgwire31]

kimmielittle,

In the context of what Pope Benedict and the Bishops are doing on climate change, the discussion of CHA’s position on health care reform is a red herring that detracts from what began this entire thread: the Church is acting on climate change, and has called faithful Catholics to take action to uphold Catholic commitments to care for Creation, the poor, and the common good.

Kevin

 

[4elise]

kimmielittle,

In the context of what Pope Benedict and the Bishops are doing on climate change, the discussion of CHA’s position on health care reform is a red herring that detracts from what began this entire thread: the Church is acting on climate change, and has called faithful Catholics to take action to uphold Catholic commitments to care for Creation, the poor, and the common good.

Kevin

Thank you Kevin -

 

[4elise]

If it had been hacked before…doesn’t it stand to reason that their tech would be watching?

If they know people are out to discredit Catholics…why not check content daily? Do they not have a responsibility to other Catholics?

Who is responsible for web page content?

My warning here, to others, about a page link ** you posted**, at least warns others of content. You provided the link in this thread.…I provided the warning in this thread. Where better?

Good Stewardship comes in many forms …huh?
There are plenty of FREE WebMaster tools online and you can get fairly inexpensive ones in stores…Best advise…If you represent as Catholic Protect your content. This isn’t the only web pages owned by this group

You are correct, I’ve learned to not be very gullible . I prefer you, instead of calling it ‘skepticism’ A term used by people who wish to degrade those of us who don’t believe the hyperbole of IPCC ] To be called, ‘careful’ , ‘cautious’ , ‘critical thinking’… or one who uses logic The use of ‘Skepticism’ services people ill, IMHO. There are soooo very many other words to use without resorting to "skepticism ". or ‘skeptic’…don’t you think?

There are many good intentions…or good intentions stated, by some. Some of which aren’t too healthy for our souls. IMHO…Catholic Health Association and Sr. Keehan…to name one.

As always, just my thoughts

Since I was never able to see the offensive material you said was there - I obviously did not know it was there -
IF you are aware of ways to assist someone (especially a Catholic non-profit organization) prevent such an attack on their web site with tools that you know about I would think you would be willing, in fact happy to - share that information for their benefit.

My reference to ‘skepticism’ was not in this reply to you - as it relates to climate change but what seemed to be an assumption of ill will on your part, assuming that there was malicious intent in hiding content on a web site - I would think - perhaps just this one time - you might be willing to recognize that perhaps you were wrong - but then again I believe we come at this point (point being - giving people the benefit of the doubt - not assuming malicious intent) from different points of view, again something I believe I am called to do to live my faith. So once again it appears that it is completely unproductive for you and I to exchange posts.

Blessings - and the good that came from this I was able to communicate to them this problem and they are working to fix it.

 

[kimmielittle]

kimmielittle,

In the context of what Pope Benedict and the Bishops are doing on climate change, the discussion of CHA’s position on health care reform is a red herring that detracts from what began this entire thread: the Church is acting on climate change, and has called faithful Catholics to take action to uphold Catholic commitments to care for Creation, the poor, and the common good.

Kevin

Hiyas

And welcome to CAF…

A red herring ABSOLUTELY. But if you read the post it was 4elise…who tried to defend CHA.

In all my posts here I have never gone against the Pope or Bishops.

BUT I will warn…if they do not separate Climate Change from IPCC Climate Change…Just as many Bishops fail to address Legal Immigration from Illegal Immigration…when they address Immigration…they Bishops ] lump it together. When they don’t separate from what are called solutions offered by the IPCC…

I believe in climate that changes…BUT The Holy Father or ANY Bishop has not signed on to AGW Man Made Climate Change ]…The evidence is just too, lacking and politized

I have constantly warned “BE Green for The Right Reasons”

You can just call me kimmie, if you wish

 

[kimmielittle]

Since I was never able to see the offensive material you said was there - I obviously did not know it was there -
IF you are aware of ways to assist someone (especially a Catholic non-profit organization) prevent such an attack on their web site with tools that you know about I would think you would be willing, in fact happy to - share that information for their benefit.

They have a server Tech./ Admin…who is well aware of tools available.

My reference to ‘skepticism’ was not in this reply to you - as it relates to climate change but what seemed to be an assumption of ill will on your part, assuming that there was malicious intent in hiding content on a web site - I would think - perhaps just this one time - you might be willing to recognize that perhaps you were wrong - but then again I believe we come at this point (point being - giving people the benefit of the doubt - not assuming malicious intent) from different points of view, again something I believe I am called to do to live my faith. So once again it appears that it is completely unproductive for you and I to exchange posts.

Blessings - and the good that came from this I was able to communicate to them this problem and they are working to fix it.

…I do hold them responsible for content on their pages…as they should be.

 

[4elise]

They have a server Tech./ Admin…who is well aware of tools available…

You know this for a fact? Or is in an assumption you make without basis?

…I do hold them responsible for content on their pages…as they should be.

of course… once they were made aware, by my e-mail and phone call they are on to fixing the situation ---- you had said that they knew it was there because the malicious sites paid them for the link ---- this is what I am talking about Kimmielittle -

I believe you have shared in the past that you are still a student - in the world of non profit organizations (from a position of nearly 30 years experience in such things) there are generally limited resources, staff, and often only volunteers involved in such things as web site maintanance - I would just hope you would be willing to consider that not everyone has the time, or resources to catch such a web site hack - and this is my point - to encourage you to be charitable, use your skills to let someone know of the problem so they can fix it ---- I am not sure if you can hear that I am offering this in the hope it would be an encouragement to you to not be so quick to judge, and to use your web skills to help others when something like this happens…

Blessings

 

[kmcgwire31]

kimmie,

re: “BUT The Holy Father or ANY Bishop has not signed on to AGW Man Made Climate Change ]…The evidence is just too, lacking and politized”

Both Pope Benedict XVI and the Bishops have in fact publically accepted the thesis of AWG, and have explicitly called on Catholics to take faithful climate action. You are certainly free to disagree with the Holy Father and Bishops on climate change, but you cannot dispute the objective truth that they have in fact accepted its reality, acknowledged it as a moral issue, and called on Catholics to take faithful climate action.

To read Papal statements on AGW: catholicclimatecovenant.org/catholic-teachings/vatican-messages/

To read USCCB & US Bishop statements on AGW: catholicclimatecovenant.org/catholic-teachings/bishops/

To read international Bishops conferences’ statements on AGW: catholicclimatecovenant.org/catholic-teachings/international-catholic-voices/

 

[kimmielittle]

whois Catholicclimateconveant.org

 **CATHOLICCLIMATECOVENANT.ORG WHOIS**

 Updated: 1 second ago
     Registrant Contact Information:
    Name: Kolya Braun-Greiner
    Organization: Catholic Coalition on Climate Change
    Address 1: PO Box 60205
    City: Washington
    State: DC
    Zip: 20039
    Country: US
    Phone: +1.3019201442
    Email: http://www.who.is/dimages/text/f3badcc02306e19.png@catholicsandclimatechange.org

**Administrative Contact Information:**
    Name: Kolya Braun-Greiner
    Organization: Catholic Coalition on Climate Change
    Address 1: PO Box 60205
    City: Washington
    State: DC
    Zip: 20039
    Country: US
    Phone: +1.3019201442
    Email: http://www.who.is/dimages/text/573f0ac18064b42.png@catholicsandclimatechange.org

**Technical Contact Information:**
    Name: Kolya Braun-Greiner
    Organization: Catholic Coalition on Climate Change
    Address 1: PO Box 60205
    City: Washington
    State: DC
    Zip: 20039
    Country: US
    Phone: +1.3019201442
    Email: http://www.who.is/dimages/text/2c61631b68ab64c.png@catholicsandclimatechange.org


Information Updated: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 22:51:03 UTC
   
      **RELATED DOMAINS FOR CATHOLICCLIMATECOVENANT.ORG**

        [catholicclimatecovenant.com](http://www.who.is/whois/catholicclimatecovenant.com/)       [catholicclimatecovenant.net](http://www.who.is/whois/catholicclimatecovenant.net/)       [godaddy.com](http://www.who.is/whois/godaddy.com/)       [stabletransit.com](http://www.who.is/whois/stabletransit.com/)       [catholicsandclimatechange.org](http://www.who.is/whois/catholicsandclimatechange.org/)

who.is/whois/catholicclimatecovenant.org/

These people are not poor…They are lobbyists

 

[kimmielittle]

kimmie,

re: “BUT The Holy Father or ANY Bishop has not signed on to AGW Man Made Climate Change ]…The evidence is just too, lacking and politized”

Both Pope Benedict XVI and the Bishops have in fact publically accepted the thesis of AWG, and have explicitly called on Catholics to take faithful climate action. You are certainly free to disagree with the Holy Father and Bishops on climate change, but you cannot dispute the objective truth that they have in fact accepted its reality, acknowledged it as a moral issue, and called on Catholics to take faithful climate action.

 

[kimmielittle]

Interesting article about This Lobbyist Group

In thumbing around some of the materials for the ‘carbon fast,’ I found they all pointed back towards this www.catholicclimatecovenant.org website. Apparently, this website was put together by the Washington, DC diocesan “environmental outreach commitee.’ What I found on that website was very interesting. Under the tab, ‘coalition members’, we find the following statement:
The Catholic Coalition on Climate Change is a membership organization drawing guidance and support from a growing list of national Catholic organizations.
Note, they draw support from these groups – as in staff time, administrative resources, and money. Especially money.
Who are some of the groups making up the Catholic Coalition on Climate Change? Yes, there is the usual panoply of dissent oriented groups like the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, National Catholic Rural Life Conference, the Franciscan Action Network and the Carmelite NGO (non-governmental organization – go check out their website for their UN credentials!), but we also have some unexpected finds. I mentioned some yesterday, but these include charitable organizations whose fundamental purpose would seem to be at odds with this ‘climate change’ lobbying. Included are:

• Catholic Charities USA
• Catholic Relief Services
• Catholic Health Association of the USA
• Caritas International

All of the above groups are known for their efforts to relieve the suffering of the poor (except for CHA). What on Earth does climate change have to do with the poor? Well, in the collective minds of these organizations, apparently climate change poses a threat to the entire world through food production, etc., and hence, causes the poor to suffer more. Apparently, this increased suffering is such a great threat that these charitable organizations have come to the conclusion that some of the money given to them to help alleviate the suffering of the poor is better spent on lobbying for a massive intrusion of various world governments into the economic functions of their societies, in order to reduce the threat of climate change.
This is amazing, on two fronts. One, there is a huge distance between any potential threat of climate change and an increased suffering of the poor. How do you know when a certain change in the climate is causing the poor to suffer more? Aren’t there far more pressing concerns to devote this precious funding to? Is this really something Catholic Charities needs to focus on, or even be associated with? Why?
Secondly……are these people completley tone deaf? Have they not seen the news? The idea of global warming has been all but completely debunked. The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is falling apart – the head of that organization just resigned in disgrace. One of the biggest scientist supporters of climate change just resigned from the main university promoting this concept (East Anglia in the UK), and the other big science name behind this concept, Michael Mann, is under investigation and will probably have to resign, as well. The only people who still support anthropogenic (man-caused) global warming or climate change are those who have a huge stake in it becoming a driving concern for governmental policy.
Once again, I express my disappointment in the goals and agendas of these organizations. There are many good people who give to Catholic Charities USA, Catholic Relief Services, and Caritas, who would be extremely disappointed to learn that some of their donated money may be supporting climate change activism – activism which is extremely misplaced. This activism is driven by a world view that must be far too centered on man – a fear that man can destroy God’s creation, rather than be part of it, and a view that man can be hugely improved, if not perfected, through human efforts. Both views are contrary to Church doctrine. Even worse is the continual involvement of these charitable organizations, which the faithful expect will provide direct help to the poor, in directing some of their most high profile efforts to political activism. And always a form of activism in line with a certain political philosophy.
I don’t know why Catholic Health Association (CHA) would be supporting this, save for some vague notion that climate change poses a threat to human health. But, supporting climate change activism does fit in nicely with the preferred politics of CHA, favoring massive government involvement in the (formerly) private sector, be it in health care or using a false environmental threat to achieve this end.

veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/catholic-charities-funding-global-warming-lobby-groups/

I, for one agree. My money for charities is to be used for charity to the poor…not some lobby group

 

[4elise]

Interesting article about This Lobbyist Group

veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/catholic-charities-funding-global-warming-lobby-groups/

I, for one agree. My money for charities is to be used for charity to the poor…not some lobby group

What on earth does climate change have on the poor? Are you serious?
usccb.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/%E2%80%98green-pope%E2%80%99-speaks-for-the-poor-and-the-planet/
Pope Benedict XVI warns that the poor and vulnerable, who are least responsible for contributing to climate change, will likely suffer its worst consequences. If the protection of the environment involves costs,” the pope insists, “they should be justly distributed, taking due account of the different levels of development of various countries and the need for solidarity with future generations,” because developing countries have the greatest risks and least resources to adapt to climate change.

This is the exact point that the Holy Father has been talking about - it is the POOR around the world who will suffer the greatest from the impact of climate change… this is the point! usccb.org/sdwp/ejp/climate/ - KEEPING THE NEEDS OF THE POOR / AND THE SACREDNESS OF ALL LIFE at the center of this discussion is what I see the Church striving to do -

I fear this is only the beginning of those who will lose their homes as a result - cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=15435 -

 

[kimmielittle]

What on earth does climate change have on the poor? Are you serious?
usccb.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/%E2%80%98green-pope%E2%80%99-speaks-for-the-poor-and-the-planet/
Pope Benedict XVI warns that the poor and vulnerable, who are least responsible for contributing to climate change, will likely suffer its worst consequences. If the protection of the environment involves costs,” the pope insists, “they should be justly distributed, taking due account of the different levels of development of various countries and the need for solidarity with future generations,” because developing countries have the greatest risks and least resources to adapt to climate change.

This is the exact point that the Holy Father has been talking about - it is the POOR around the world who will suffer the greatest from the impact of climate change… this is the point! usccb.org/sdwp/ejp/climate/ - KEEPING THE NEEDS OF THE POOR / AND THE SACREDNESS OF ALL LIFE at the center of this discussion is what I see the Church striving to do -

I fear this is only the beginning of those who will lose their homes as a result - cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=15435 -

Apparently, this increased suffering is such a great threat that these charitable organizations have come to the conclusion that some of the money given to them to help alleviate the suffering of the poor is better spent on lobbying for a massive intrusion of various world governments into the economic functions of their societies, in order to reduce the threat of climate change.

How does lobbying for Cap and Trade…help the poor?

How does lobbying for Carbon Credit schemes…help the poor?

AND we ALL know what / who is affected with population control…

 

[aspawloski4th]

aspawloski - first as you and I have discussed this several times over the last year - I hope your wife is doing ok - and as she is your primary responsibility - you are a good husband and do a wonderful job getting her to all her appointments -

Thank you also for your clarification of the differences as you see them between meterologist and climatologist - and I believe this of course as it was your personal experience. Greenhouse gas is not, to my understanding, only CO2 but methane as produced by CAFOs - so this is one area that I’ve changed - giving up meat and dairy about five years ago. What I’ve read about cap and trade indicates this actually makes the the situation worse - so wouldn’t advocate that!

I know you do not believe in our impact on the climate - I do, and will continue to take actions to mitigate my personal contribution to the best I can BECAUSE I think I should. the OP here was that I was grateful that there had been an articulation of how Catholics view this issue in light of our faith and belief that we are the children of God.

For the information of everyone there is even far less methane in the atmosphere than CO2, so therefore its a non factor. For anyone thing in the atmosphere to be a legitimate factor in heat retention of earth as a whole it has to compose at least a few percent of the atmosphere. Anything 1% or less is a non factor in climate. By the way it has recently been recorded that the planets Mars, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune have had an increase in average atmospheric temperature latlely. If Solar output is the cause of global warming, all the green practice and giving up of lifestyle isn’t going to do a lick of good, the temps will still go on their way up. So chill out. The Earth is going to be whatever temperature God wants it to be, and you are going to pass when God calls you home, all the health nut stuff isn’t going to change your appointment with God.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I fear this is only the beginning of those who will lose their homes as a result - cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=15435 -

This story is based on junk science at best. In terms of what the average temperature of Earth since the beginning of life on our planet, we are still lower than the average. For most of the time of existance of life on Earth there have not been ice caps, therefore most climatologists consider us to still be in an ice age, allbeit we are very slowly coming out of it over time(centuries). To think we as mankind are big and bad enough to have major effect on the cimate of the whole globe is very boastfull and boisterous. Remember God is in control!

 

[kimmielittle]

This story is based on junk science at best. In terms of what the average temperature of Earth since the beginning of life on our planet, we are still lower than the average. For most of the time of existance of life on Earth there have not been ice caps, therefore most climatologists consider us to still be in an ice age, allbeit we are very slowly coming out of it over time(centuries). To think we as mankind are big and bad enough to have major effect on the cimate of the whole globe is very boastfull and boisterous. Remember God is in control!

Most coral atolls are on volcanic peaks and these are usually made up of comparatively spongy rock, usually not as spongy as pumice but far from solid basalt.

The weight of the coral and the soaking of water actually makes them all prone to sinking.

The real test is whether any claimed island sinking is also observed in neighboring mainland locations.

If it is not present elsewhere then those making the claim are essentially arguing that a large amount of ice breaking off an ice sheet is capable of producing a localized rise in the one body of water some 3000miles away.

AND that would be in blatant defiance of the laws of physics.

If you check the links to Wikipedia you will see that this was first recognized by none other than Charles Darwin a century ago.

 

[4elise]

How does lobbying for Cap and Trade…help the poor?

How does lobbying for Carbon Credit schemes…help the poor?

AND we ALL know what / who is affected with population control…

I am not an advocate for cap and trade (where it has been implemented seems to actually be increasing the greenhouse gases) - and haven’t seen anything on these web sites that promote this as a choice - RATHER - striving to increase awareness, encourage personal choices that can help mitigate, and speaking loudly for the poor - loudly for the CATHOLIC prespective on the value of human life - so obviously NOT advocating population control…