Catholic politicians using rumor to campaign

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kmaaj said:
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LeafByNiggle:
So we can add at least two more administration officials. And it is common knowledge that Trump did not want to lower flags to half staff to honor John McCain when he passed away. It is looking less and less like outlandish rumor and more like “Oh, yeah, that’s just Trump being Trump.”
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It is still their word against his,
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Trump is hardly an objective uninterested party in this question. Right now it is 6 against 1.
and they are not willing to be identified and face him directly.
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They see how many professional lives have been ruined already and thrown under the bus by the Trump administration. You can hardly blame them for wanted to keep from being publicly identified.
Trump says it did not happen and people close to the circumstances publicly affirm that.
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Trump is a very interested party, and the those close to him are not in a position to guarantee they heard every word he spoke that day.
According to Church teaching and Holy Writ , that is scandal and rumor.
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It is certainly not scandal, and I have already explained why it is not rumor either.
Trump and McCain HATED each other.
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Now that is rumor accord to Church teaching.
McCain was a reckless warmonger of the highest order,
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–compounded by defamation. Also not permitted by Church teaching.
 
Not one word of what I have said here has been in defense of anyone. The intent of this thread is to point out a public Catholic using rumor to prop his campaign.

“Orange man bad, Biden good” is NOT a convincing argument.

Bombing civilian targets is a war crime, in Vietnam and in Serbia. What did Trump have to do with either?
 
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kmaaj said:
The intent of this thread is to point out a public Catholic using rumor to prop his campaign.
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While misusing the term “rumor” and accepting threadbare defenses from persons of demonstrated lack of truthfulness in support of “orange man” (your term, not mine). So how is it not in defense?
kmaaj said:
Bombing civilian targets is a war crime, in Vietnam and in Serbia. What did Trump have to do with either?
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When did I say Trump had anything to do with either? And “civilian target” is not always a simple cut and dried determination, no matter how much some would like it to be.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
It is certainly not scandal, and I have already explained why it is not rumor either.
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As it currently sits, it is rumor and scandal. If and when all parties involved meet face to face and hash it out, “…so that EVERY word may be established…” as Jesus commanded, then the allegations are either affirmed or refuted.
LeafByNiggle said:
Now that is rumor accord to Church teaching.
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It is fact affirmed many times publicly by both Trump and McCain.
 
whatistrue said:
While misusing the term “rumor” and accepting threadbare defenses from persons of demonstrated lack of truthfulness in support of “orange man” (your term, not mine). So how is it not in defense?
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I have not misused the term. I have applied biblical standards to the words usage, where y’all are fine using the world’s standards.
 
You have, but simply refuse to accept it. Not a problem, really. I also notice that you haven’t addressed many other facts placed in evidence that do not support your interpretation. Also not really a problem. Neither of these are problems for me because I decline to engage with those who do not argue in good faith. Muting thread now.
 
kmaaj said:
The intent of this thread is to point out a public Catholic using rumor to prop his campaign.
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And the intent of this response is to refute that claim.
kmaaj said:
As it currently sits, it is rumor and scandal.
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If that is your response to my argument for why it is not, all I can say is “Is not!”.
If and when all parties involved meet face to face and hash it out, “…so that EVERY word may be established…” as Jesus commanded,
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Jesus was talking about correcting a brother who has sinned. If we follow that reading to its end, we would have to conclude that we should treat Trump like a tax collector or gentile. But that is really not an appropriate application of this reading. Also you are continuing to use the word scandal inaccurately. Scandal means acting in such a manner as to lead others to sin. It is not scandal to report on what six administration officials have said they heard. Nor it is rumor just because call it that.
then the allegations are either affirmed or refuted.
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That’s right. Currently they are just allegations. They are being reported as allegations. That’s what the Atlantic article says. Now, if the Atlantic article had reported as a fact that Trump definitely said those things, that might be a rumor. But they didn’t. They said that four people close to Trump allege to have heard him. That is not a rumor. Now, if those four officials did in fact conspire to make up a story and tell the Atlantic, that would be the sin of rumor. But not a sin of the Atlantic reporters. It would be a sin for those four. The Atlantic clearly qualified their reporting so as to make it rest on the authority of their sources.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
That’s right. Currently they are just allegations. They are being reported as allegations.
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Biden has completely centered his campaign on presenting them as facts…hence, the topic at hand.
LeafByNiggle said:
If we follow that reading to its end, we would have to conclude that we should treat Trump like a tax collector or gentile.
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The former Protestant in me recalls that -any- chain reference bible worth its salt referred to the Old Testament standards when leveling an allegation. In this case, “every word” is NOT established, yet Biden is running with it as if it is. Rumor. The scandal is causing others to regard rumor as fact.
 
kmaaj said:
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LeafByNiggle:
That’s right. Currently they are just allegations. They are being reported as allegations.
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Biden has completely centered his campaign on presenting them as facts.
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No, has qualified his comments with “If this is true…”
LeafByNiggle said:
If we follow that reading to its end, we would have to conclude that we should treat Trump like a tax collector or gentile.
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The former Protestant in me recalls that -any- chain reference bible worth its salt referred to the Old Testament standards when leveling an allegation. In this case, “every word” is NOT established, yet Biden is running with it as if it is.
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Well, what do you call it when someone repeats a known falsehood about Biden?
 
kmaaj said:
The Atlantic did not seek out the other side. Fox did.
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The Atlantic did seek out the other side, and the White House did not respond until after the story was published.

This quote was later added to the story (I assume this is the article you were referring to):
The White House did not return earlier calls for comment, but Alyssa Farah, a White House spokesperson, emailed me this statement shortly after this story was posted: “This report is false. President Trump holds the military in the highest regard. He’s demonstrated his commitment to them at every turn: delivering on his promise to give our troops a much needed pay raise, increasing military spending, signing critical veterans reforms, and supporting military spouses. This has no basis in fact.”
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At this point I get the feeling Trump is trying to lose. It’s Rule One of the Republican Party “Support the troops”, and DJT can’t even do that. After 4 years of lies, alternative facts and just about every associate of his either in Federal Prison or well on the way there, I’m not sure what could dissuade people from supporting this Cult of Personality.
 
And I’m willing to bet that if I asked you to support your allegations, the evidence you’d provide would be riddled with hyperbole, inference, implication, hearsay, speculation, etc.

In other words, rumor.
 
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