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Porknpie
Guest
This is a new one. I can’t wait to see what the source is.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Easy enough to explain, if you like, using the example of Fanny Alger. Emma caught young Fanny and Smith in the barn. Fanny, who was living with the Smith’s, later began to show her pregnancy. Emma threw her out of the house. She left to live with relative, when she returned…no child.
Other women were married to other men, so technically, the women were polyanderous. Any child that was Smith’s was raised as the other man’s. Smith also “married” other men’s wives who were already pregnant. And then there is evidence for the practice of abortion in Nauvoo.
At a time when a pregnancy out of wedlock was not socially acceptable, women and their families already had the social construct in place to support women and girls who became pregnant outside of marriage. I don’t see “no children” as an argument.
Also, the idea that Smith married women for some reason that was never explained, is weak. It isn’t difficult to understand why a man would chase after women outside of his marriage.
As for “good fruits”, I don’t know that Mormonism has anything unique going for it. I know among Mormons there is a general feeling and teaching of “we’re special”, but you have to understand, no one else thinks that about you (as a group).
As for infallible humans, the difference with Smith is, he defined his sin under new doctrines and claimed these doctrines came from God. No prophet has ever done this, and I hope you understand why. It is a glaring, overwhelming, piece of evidence of what sort of “prophet” Smith was. False.
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twopekinguys
Guest
Easy enough to explain, if you like, using the example of Fanny Alger. Emma caught young Fanny and Smith in the barn. Fanny, who was living with the Smith’s, later began to show her pregnancy. Emma threw her out of the house. She left to live with relative, when she returned…no child.
Other women were married to other men, so technically, the women were polyanderous. Any child that was Smith’s was raised as the other man’s. Smith also “married” other men’s wives who were already pregnant. And then there is evidence for the practice of abortion in Nauvoo.
At a time when a pregnancy out of wedlock was not socially acceptable, women and their families already had the social construct in place to support women and girls who became pregnant outside of marriage. I don’t see “no children” as an argument.
Also, the idea that Smith married women for some reason that was never explained, is weak. It isn’t difficult to understand why a man would chase after women outside of his marriage.
As for “good fruits”, I don’t know that Mormonism has anything unique going for it. I know among Mormons there is a general feeling and teaching of “we’re special”, but you have to understand, no one else thinks that about you (as a group).
As for infallible humans, the difference with Smith is, he defined his sin under new doctrines and claimed these doctrines came from God. No prophet has ever done this, and I hope you understand why. It is a glaring, overwhelming, piece of evidence of what sort of “prophet” Smith was. False.
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SteveVH
Guest
I know. I thought I had heard them all by now. What is amazing to me is that someone would actually contrive such a story, given that the Church’s teaching on the issue, throughout its history, is well documented. As Jeff Cavins is fond of saying, this can be summed up with the ancient Hebrew word “BA-LO-NEY”.This is a new one. I can’t wait to see what the source is.
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Fatboys
Guest
Why are you being so rude? I was trying to explain my position. If you are bother by this, you did not have to respond at all. I explained how I knew what I believed was correct for me. I would have to ask how you know what you believe is correct for you.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Yes, I know this is what you believe. TPG responded as he did because you didn’t address what I said, at all. You just bore your testimony. Granted, it is important to you, but it holds no meaning for us. No more than our testimony of Jesus Christ and our surety in His Love and Mercy, including guiding His Church until “the end of the age”, means anything to you.
So, you think you prayed and God told you Jesus was a god among many gods? I find that impossible to believe. Why? Because it doesn’t align at all, to Who Jesus says He is. It is a god of your (or Smith’s) making.
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twopekinguys
Guest
I am not, and haven’t been rude.
It is a common scenario with mormon posters on here to bare their testimony when they cannot come up with a good answer.
I was merely pointing that out.
The persecution card is overplayed too.
We have all seen it done over and over. I’m just sayin…
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twopekinguys
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Fatboys
Guest
So what you are saying is that Emma kicked a girl out of the house because she was pregnant? Please give me a reliable source for this. You know that if people tell a rumor long enough it becomes a false truth. You are only looking at this point from what you have learned from anti mormons who hate us. I realize that this is what you want to read to justify what you believe about mormons. But if you want to learn what is closer to reality change your reading material. Look if I wanted to learn what the real you was would it be correct to go to those who hate you? If I wanted to learn about catholics, would I go to born agains? I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. You do not. I accept that. I do not believe the pope to be a prophet. I do believe him to be a spiritual good person. I believe that he is a spiritual leader for millions of people. Since he is a good man and chosen to lead, those things which he does for the good is of God. Do I agree with him on all things? No. But he is not my leader. But I do honor him and respect him. I would never call him a cheat, a liar, or a con man. There are main stream Christians that would. So if you want to get into the dirt, that is fine, but know that I am also a farmer, and play in the dirt all the time.Easy enough to explain, if you like, using the example of Fanny Alger. Emma caught young Fanny and Smith in the barn. Fanny, who was living with the Smith’s, later began to show her pregnancy. Emma threw her out of the house. She left to live with relative, when she returned…no child.
Other women were married to other men, so technically, the women were polyanderous. Any child that was Smith’s was raised as the other man’s. Smith also “married” other men’s wives who were already pregnant. And then there is evidence for the practice of abortion in Nauvoo.
At a time when a pregnancy out of wedlock was not socially acceptable, women and their families already had the social construct in place to support women and girls who became pregnant outside of marriage. I don’t see “no children” as an argument.
Also, the idea that Smith married women for some reason that was never explained, is weak. It isn’t difficult to understand why a man would chase after women outside of his marriage.
As for “good fruits”, I don’t know that Mormonism has anything unique going for it. I know among Mormons there is a general feeling and teaching of “we’re special”, but you have to understand, no one else thinks that about you (as a group).
As for infallible humans, the difference with Smith is, he defined his sin under new doctrines and claimed these doctrines came from God. No prophet has ever done this, and I hope you understand why. It is a glaring, overwhelming, piece of evidence of what sort of “prophet” Smith was. False.
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twopekinguys
Guest
Did you know Rebecca is a former mormon?
I think she kind of has an inside track here.
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zaffiroborant
Guest
FYI people here are not going to go* “oh my gosh it’s anti-Mormon hate stuff*”, when you type “anti-Mormon” like they do on many LDS sites. I think twice is enough, you should probably drop the phrase now.
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zaffiroborant
Guest
Are you telling your relatives that Catholics were permitted to marry polygamously in 1650 due to a shortage of men?
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Porknpie
Guest
I think I hear an ex mormon from Texas getting ready to speak.Did you know Rebecca is a former mormon?
I think she kind of has an inside track here.
If we are going off topic, can I ask for proof of a “great apostasy”? :bigyikes:
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twopekinguys
Guest
The whole “anti-mormon” thing is over used also.
We hear that about anything that doesn’t promote the mormon church, or put it into a golden light.
If it comes from a mormon source, like the history of the church, lds dot org, or anything like that, all we hear is crickets chirping.
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zaffiroborant
Guest
We’re all still waiting for reliable sources from you.
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twopekinguys
Guest
Ya think!?!I think I hear an ex mormon from Texas getting ready to speak.
If we are going off topic, can I ask for proof of a “great apostasy”? :bigyikes:
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Fatboys
Guest
This is your realible source? You can read that it was rumored, whispered? This is not evidence at all. This is the wagging tongues of people. And Oliver Cowderys statement was not in reference to the so called relationship with Fanny. See you are taking statements from people who would love nothing more than to destroy my faith. Lucky for me I do not rely on them for my faith. I rely on Christ. I do not rely on Joseph Smith for my faith. I rely on Christ. Now I would love some dialog with you without all the accusations. If you have some sincere questions, I would love to answer them.
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twopekinguys
Guest
How about some of those references people have been asking you for?
Gonna get to those any time soon?
How about answering the question about JS practicing polygamy for 5 yrs before the “revelation” was made public?
We’ve got time, we’ll wait.
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Fatboys
Guest
I have spoken with many ex mormons. I have heard so many horror stories about how they were treated or how home teachers pestered them or some story about a church leader telling them some wierd practice or doctrine. I have been a member all my life although I was inactive for most of them younger years until I was about 22. I have had none of these experiences that I have been told about. It is foreign to me. I have had discussions with those who pose as mormons and ex mormons to get their agendas heard, only to be lying about their identity. As I have stated some people believe it does not matter what they do if it is in the name of Jesus. So perhaps Rebecca has inside information, but it is her perspective, and since she has left, things may have been forgotten or twisted. Maybe not. I came here not to give battle. I thought that because born agains give you guys a hard time that perhaps I could have some thoughtful discussions here. I see that I was wrong. Not the first time. I feel bad that you have such a negative feelings towards my faith. I can see that as tempting as it is to take each point and discuss them, it would do me little good. You have already closed your minds to learn a different perspective. I would have loved to learn from you.Did you know Rebecca is a former mormon?
I think she kind of has an inside track here.
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