Catholic Prayer Angers French Gay Rights Groups

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touch luck 🤷 Haters gonna hate, that’s all I can say. The Catholics have every right to exercise our faith and praying for others is par for the course. They don’t like it they can move to a muslim country (though that might compromise their ability to live out their chosen lifestyle)
 
SaintPatrick333 said:
touch luck 🤷 Haters gonna hate, that’s all I can say. The Catholics have every right to exercise our faith and praying for others is par for the course. They don’t like it they can move to a muslim country (though that might compromise their ability to live out their chosen lifestyle)
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^THIS.
 
What I don’t understand is why gay groups think the Church’s opposition to gay marriage comes from “hatred towards gays”… :confused:

Don’t they realize that it’s because the Church loves gay men and women so much that It’s willing to be hated by them in order that their souls may be saved???
 
MidnightSun12 said:
What I don’t understand is why gay groups think the Church’s opposition to gay marriage comes from “hatred towards gays”… :confused:

Don’t they realize that it’s because the Church loves gay men and women so much that It’s willing to be hated by them in order that their souls may be saved???
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They don’t believe in the existence of soul and they reject God. Simple. Atheism and alternative sexuality seems to go hand in hand now. Of course, there are homosexuals who are believers, but the dominant political discourse ties non-belief with their lifestyle choice.
 
I think this is the Prayer for France which is to be read on August 15th

eglise.catholique.fr/getFile.php?ID=20607

What follows is a Google translation, so the English is a bit rough. If someone can offer a better translation, I would be appreciative 😊

First, there is a an introduction by a spokesman for the Catholic bishops. It is followed by the actual prayer.

The Assumption is a great Marian feast which is still very popular. It is also the last Summer time spiritual step back before school starts. For these reasons, the Bishops of France offer to all Catholic dioceses to unite in a single Universal Prayer IIn the concern of the international social and economic crisis, given the gravity of choice societal-reaching, it is essential to sensitize public opinion beyond the sphere practitioner usual. Not only the Mother of Christ gathered the events in his Heart, but as she pondered her answer and materialize towards them. May Our Lady of the Assumption inform our personal and collective decisions.

Bishop Bernard Podvin
Spokesman of the bishops of France

PROPOSAL FOR A NATIONAL PRAYER OF THE FAITHFUL

Brothers and Sisters,
IN THE FEAST OF THE ASSUMPTION 2012

On this day when we celebrate the Assumption of the Virgin Mary, under the patronage of which was placed France, presented to God through the intercession of Our Lady, our believing prayers for our countries:
  1. In these times of economic crisis, many of our citizens are victims of
    various restrictions and see the future with concern, pray for those who have
    decision-making powers in this area and ask God to make us more generous
    yet in solidarity with our fellow men.
  2. For those who have been elected recently to legislate and govern, their sense of
    common good of society outweighs the special requests and they have the strength of
    follow the directions of their conscience.
  3. For families, that their legitimate expectation of support from society is not disappointed; that their members support with fidelity and tenderness throughout their existence, particularly at times painful. That the commitment of spouses to other and their children are a sign of loyalty to love.
  4. For children and youth; all we help everyone to discover his own path
    to progress towards happiness; they cease to be objects of desire and conflict of
    adults to fully benefit from the love of a father and a mother.
Lord our God, we entrust the future of our country. Through the intercession of Our Lady,
Grant us the courage to make hard choices and a better quality of life for all and
the development of our youth through strong families and loyal. Through Jesus Christ our
Lord.
 
What a lopsided article. I have a copy of the prayer in question and have attached it to this post. As best I can, I’ve tried to translate it. This is a manual translation using my imperfect knowledge of the French language, with some help from Google Translate.
Conference of the Bishops of France
Information and Communication Service
Paris, Monday July 30, 2012
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Mary Collects These Events
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The Assumption is a major Marian date. A feast that is still very popular. It’s also the last time during the summer to take a spiritual step back before school begins again. For these reasons, the bishops of France propose to the Catholics of all dioceses to unite themselves in the same General Intercessions. In light of the concern over the economic, social and international crises and considering the severity of far-reaching societal choices, it is essential to raise awareness of public opinion beyond the sphere of the usual practitioner. The Mother of Christ not only collects these events in her heart, she also meditates on them and forms concrete responses to them. May Our Lady of the Assumption enlighten our personal and collective decisions.
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Monsignor Bernard Podvin
Spokesman for the bishops of France
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National Proposition for a Prayer of the Faithful
On the Feast of the Assumption 2012
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Brothers and Sisters,
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On this day as we celebrate the Assumption of the Virgin Mary, under whose patronage France has been placed, we present to God, by the intercession of Our Lady, our confident prayers for our country:
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  1. *]In these times of economic crisis, many of our fellow citizens are victims of various restrictions and look to the future with worry; let us pray for those who have the power to make decisions in this domain and ask God to make us more generous in solidarity with our fellow man.
    *]For those who have recently been elected to legislate and govern; that their sense of common good for society outweigh special requests and that they have the strength to follow the indications of their consciences.
    *]For families; that their legitimate expectation of the support of society not be disappointed; that their members support each other with faithfulness and tenderness throughout their existence, especially in painful moments. May the commitment of the spouses towards each other and their children be a sign of loyalty to love.
    *]For children and youth; that we each help all of them to find their own path to happiness; that they cease to be objects of desires and conflicts of adults in order to fully benefit from the love of a father and a mother.
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  1. Lord our God, we entrust the future of our country to You. Through the intercession of Our Lady, grant us the courage to make the necessary choices for a better quality of life for all and for the vitality of our youth thanks to strong and faithful families. Through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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    In light of this text, I think the article’s assertion that the Prayers of the Faithful proposed to (not imposed upon) Catholic churches in France “attacks” anything - it is possible to express opposition without attacking - or that it implies “that it is dangerous for a child to be brought up by same-sex parents” is bogus. If anything, it implies that it is ideal to be brought up by parents of the opposite gender. Since when is it hateful and anything-phobic to state that there is an ideal?
    MidnightSun12 said:
    What I don’t understand is why gay groups think the Church’s opposition to gay marriage comes from “hatred towards gays”… :confused:

    Don’t they realize that it’s because the Church loves gay men and women so much that It’s willing to be hated by them in order that their souls may be saved???
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    It’s much easier to say “they hate us” than to engage in real dialogue aimed at finding out the nature and source of concern.
    Nelka said:
    They will crumble and revise the prayer.

    😦
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    I live in France and will be attending Mass at one of my parish’s churches on Wednesday. Today before the close of Sunday Mass, my pastor stated that we will be using the General Intercessions sent by the bishops’ conference during the Mass for the Feast of the Assumption. Since I already possess a copy of the exact text issued by the bishops’ conference, I will report back if any changes were made to this text.

    I will say I’d be surprised if the text changes at all - on the national, diocesan or parochial level. Cardinal Vingt-Trois, Msgr. Ulrich and Fr. B each have enough backbone for ten people. I am confident in their conviction and resolve to stand firm on this.
 
Filii_Dei said:
I am impressed by your unwavering faith in our shepherds. 🙂
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You don’t understand.

Let me give you another example.

In England the government told Catholic adoption agencies that they had to provide children to gay couples.

Some Catholic agencies closed down and refused to do it while others didn’t.

Satan is attacking our Faith all the time and for some reason when it comes to gays, people back down.

Some of our shepherds are stronger than others and some nations put more pressure on the church than others.

How many people have replied to this post, taking time to type something but not taking the time to pray aswell/instead?
 
Nelka said:
You don’t understand.

Let me give you another example.

In England the government told Catholic adoption agencies that they had to provide children to gay couples.

Some Catholic agencies closed down and refused to do it while others didn’t.

Satan is attacking our Faith all the time and for some reason when it comes to gays, people back down.

Some of our shepherds are stronger than others and some nations put more pressure on the church than others.

How many people have replied to this post, taking time to type something but not taking the time to pray aswell/instead?
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Thank you for your insight into my level of understanding. Clearly you know me better than myself.

So who is the one who backs down? The ones who refuse to violate Catholic teaching by legitimising gay couples? Or the ones who refuse to stop their ministry of finding parents for abandoned children? Both have their reasons for their decisions, and neither are clearly in the wrong for it. You should be condemning the ones who placed them in this uncomfortable dilemma to begin with, but you seem to be rather quick to pass judgement on the poor charities instead. Did Jesus give you the magisterial authority to judge which has committed the greater evil?

The bishops of France are doing the best to protect their flock and have not yet shown any signs of backing down. We should be giving them support and prayer, not deriding them even before it has begun. This is hardly respectful of their authority as leaders of the Church. 🙂
 
Incidentally, it sounds far too vague and circumlocutory to me. Why not explicitly stress the paramount importance of the traditional family with a male father and female mother? I expect there is now a law against any explicit criticism of homosexuality.

Diversity means heterogeneity, so how is it that homosexuals posture as champions of heterogeneity, when they want to marry - one of the most fundamental of all human relationships - or have sexual relations with their own sex?

They preach tolerance, yet forbid Christian literature - but not homosexual literature - in council offices, and forbid the wearing of crucifixes and crosses in the workplace, wherever they can.

They are a minority in the electorate, never mind the country, yet the ‘pink pound’ seems all powerful with our governments, and somehow they have the gall to posture as victims. They make Caiaphas seem like Mr Nice Guy. Also, Pontius Pilate, who, at least, expressed an interest in the truth, however fleeting.
 
pbecke said:
Incidentally, it sounds far too vague and circumlocutory to me. Why not explicitly stress the paramount importance of the traditional family with a male father and female mother? I expect there is now a law against any explicit criticism of homosexuality.
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I am not an expert on French law by any means, but the proposed Universal Prayer is probably worded as strongly as it can be without incurring the wrath of the HALDE (Haute Autorité de Lutte contre les Discriminations et pour l’Egalité - the French Equal Opportunities and Anti-Discrimination Commission). That’s a fight we can pick later, not right now when the current effort has only just begun.
 
Certainly prayer is needed if the deconstruction of the family is to be stopped. If the family structure collapses, so does the nation. Prayer is urgently needed, both for France and for the United States and many other nations.
 
I am very saddened to see that even other countries besided the U.S. have problems with the Church and government. But we, as Catholics, most certainly love our neighbors. We love them oh so very much. But when our neighbor’s start to offend our God, we pray for them to change for their soul and for our God. And prayer can change parliament because NOTHING can stop God. 😃
 
Okay, I said I would report back if the text of the General Intercessions was revised at any level. So here I am.

I have found no evidence online that it changed at that national or diocesan level, and I imagine the press would have been all over it if it had (especially at the national level). So that left me with the task of going to Mass and finding out how my parish handled it.

Yes, our pastor changed the text. He made it stronger.

For example, the third intercession begins with “For families…” At our parish it read, “Nothing is more beautiful than the family.” Other than changes like this and some cosmetic alterations (to include “Lord,” for example), the text read as it does in the letter sent to all parishes at the end of July.

:yyeess:
 
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