Catholic Priest Debates Church Rule [Lay Person Preaching the Homily]

[Barbkw]

minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/02/24/catholic-priest-debates-church-rule/

Catholic Priest Debates Church Rule

February 24, 2011 2:44 PM

By Edgar Linares, NewsRadio 830 WCCO

BLOOMINGTON, Minn. (WCCO) — Rev. Mike Tegeder of St. Edward Catholic Church in Bloomington disagrees with a 2004 church rule that bars lay preaching. It’s a rule that recently got him in hot water.

“I’m just trying to use the gifts of my staff and give people a break from listening to me,” said Tegeder.

Lay preaching is when a non-clergy member delivers a sermon or homily to the congregation. On Jan. 23, he let Heidi Busse take the pulpit and deliver the homily.

“She’s extremely qualified, she does a great job, people love her,” said Tegeder.

Busse is in charge of adult faith education at St. Edward and has a master’s degree in theology. WCCO attempted to speak with Busse but she wasn’t available for comment.

Soon after the sermon, Tegeder received a phone call from Minneapolis-St. Paul Archbishop John Nienstedt, reminding him of the policy established in 2004 by the Roman Catholic Church.

“I know one parishioner wrote to the Archbishop, and he’s written about other things too, which I appreciate. I need critique and feedback. I wish he would have come to me first,” said Tegeder.

Tegeder says he has a big parish with 2,300 households and a lay staff. He says among his staff he has seven people with the equivalent degree of a Catholic priest.

“I have one retired priest who helps me out, mainly on weekends,” said Tegeder.

Tegeder says there shouldn’t be a rule against lay preaching because he feels his congregation can benefit from it.

“If somebody has a wonderful message to share, hold it up! People are energized by that. … There are other parishes that use and continue to use lay preachers on a regular basis,” said Tegeder. He says he doesn’t regularly use them at St. Edward.

WCCO tried to reach church leaders at the Archdiocese of Minneapolis and St. Paul for reaction, but they did not want to comment. Tegeder believes the reason this incident was amplified could be because a woman delivered the homily.

“The funny thing is they make these rules over in Rome,” said Tegeder. “You go to Rome and go to a church, you can shoot a canon through it and you’re not going to hit anyone. Nobody goes to church over there. And yet they tell us what to do when we’re fairly successful. I have a fairly strong congregation. I think they should come over here and learn a few things.”

He added that in the United States everything is black and white.

“If you have a rule it’s either can you do it, or can’t you do it. Over in Rome, well, we have this rule but you’re the pastor, you know the flock. You have to apply it. They have all these rules but they have all these exceptions. If you talk to an Italian cardinal, I don’t think he’d make a big deal about it,” said Tegeder.

Tegeder plans to continue using Busse to perform other services outside of mass. He also believes Nienstedt should focus on more pressing issues happening in the clergy.

“I think the church has a lot of other responsibilities they should be focused on. One of our priests was arrested for criminal sexual behavior. Last fall, one of our priests was arrested for exposing himself to an undercover agent in a public park in St. Paul. These are things I’m concerned about. And the Archbishop should be taking care of that and find out why we’re not attracting healthier people into the ministry,” said Tegeder.

 

[Brendan]

If I felt that the people of his parish would benefit from hearing ME preach, could I just go up and start talking whenever I felt like it?

How would the pastor feel about that? Would he feel that was an affront to the authority he has over the parish and as the celebrant of the Mass?

If so, if he would desire the obedience of those he has authority over, why would he not recognize the authority of those over him?

 

[Godfollower]

Among the forms of preaching, the homily, which is part of the liturgy itself and is reserved to a priest or deacon, is preeminent; in the homily the mysteries of faith and the norms of Christian life are to be explained from the sacred text during the course of the liturgical year.

Code of Canon Law 1983, Canon 767, § 1 (I believe that the Code of Canon Law 1917 said much the same thing, though I don’t have an online copy of it in English).

I fail to understand how a priest – or a DRE with a master’s degree in Catholic theology – wouldn’t know this.

 

[wisdomseeker]

It starts all wrong in teh first place. Disobedience to teh Church, therefore they preach disobedience and should not be listen to it.

 

[TMC]

I don’t like the rule, either. I think that the pastor should be able to access the gifts of qualified lay people, including by asking some of them to deliver the homily from time to time. That said, it is the rule. I have no problem with priests (or lay people) advocating for a change in the rule, but in the meantime they should follow the rule.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I don’t like the rule, either. I think that the pastor should be able to access the gifts of qualified lay people, including by asking some of them to deliver the homily from time to time. That said, it is the rule. I have no problem with priests (or lay people) advocating for a change in the rule, but in the meantime they should follow the rule.

Is it not what protestants do? if you like laity taking over just go to protestants congregations. the CC has laws and rules that needs to be followed.

 

[uxordepp]

I"ve battled this one many times because of a decision particular to our ordinariate which allows lay-preaching…as long as it’s done by a pastoral associate. Not that it matters, but some of them have proven themselves to be gloriously UN-qualified to preach.

Thing is, there IS already a place for a lay-person to address the congregation, in the form of a ‘reflection’ after Communion. This does not replace a homily given at the proper time.

There is NO reason for a priest to abuse his charism and authority by encouraging a lay-person (however well-qualified to speak) to disobey.

 

[jdnation]

If lay people have something wonderful to say, then invite parishoners to remain after the Mass to listen to them.

If what they have to say is lengthy, then allow people to remain after mass. If it’s short invite them to say it before the dismissal, or even before the Mass begins.

You can even have it written up and printed in the Church Bulletin or on a Parish website if you have one.

There are many avenues to do this without taking away the role and importance of the priest. All these community concerns are precisely why nobody sees the importance of priests or have reverence for the mass or Eucharist. During the mass our focus must be on Christ, and everything that occurs must take pains to promote that fact. The Gospel is the Word of the Lord because we have actual quotations from Christ and the priest himself acting in his role should be the one to explain the message of the readings during mass to drive home the fact that teaching authority and correct interpretation belongs to the Church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I think this priest is doing is encourage women preachers. is it not she who preached? how sad for this Church.

 

[Suudy]

When I went through RCIA, we had a crabby old priest that (I think) liked to thumb his nose at the hierarchy. Now, he was retired priest that was called in because the regular pastor had serious health issues and a sub was needed until a replacement could be found. But he did things like this all the time. There is a monastery not too far away that the priest would invite nuns to come and speak all the time. Frequently they gave the homily.

But this priest would do all kinds of things. One Christmas he declared that since the Vatican was considering changes to the mass, he’d try it out himself. So he did the homily right after the opening hymn, and skipped the creed and the prayers of the people. Everyone, used to his antics, didn’t skip a beat. They knew he was old, stubborn, and willful.

I do hope that priests like this are on their way out, and those obedient to the hierarchy are replacing them.

 

[area525]

minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/02/24/catholic-priest-debates-church-rule/

Catholic Priest Debates Church Rule

February 24, 2011 2:44 PM

By Edgar Linares, NewsRadio 830 WCCO

BLOOMINGTON, Minn. (WCCO) — Rev. Mike Tegeder of St. Edward Catholic Church in Bloomington disagrees with a 2004 church rule that bars lay preaching. It’s a rule that recently got him in hot water.

“I’m just trying to use the gifts of my staff and give people a break from listening to me,” said Tegeder.

Lay preaching is when a non-clergy member delivers a sermon or homily to the congregation. On Jan. 23, he let Heidi Busse take the pulpit and deliver the homily.

“She’s extremely qualified, she does a great job, people love her,” said Tegeder.

Busse is in charge of adult faith education at St. Edward and has a master’s degree in theology. WCCO attempted to speak with Busse but she wasn’t available for comment.

Soon after the sermon, Tegeder received a phone call from Minneapolis-St. Paul Archbishop John Nienstedt, reminding him of the policy established in 2004 by the Roman Catholic Church.

“I know one parishioner wrote to the Archbishop, and he’s written about other things too, which I appreciate. I need critique and feedback. I wish he would have come to me first,” said Tegeder.

Tegeder says he has a big parish with 2,300 households and a lay staff. He says among his staff he has seven people with the equivalent degree of a Catholic priest.

“I have one retired priest who helps me out, mainly on weekends,” said Tegeder.

Tegeder says there shouldn’t be a rule against lay preaching because he feels his congregation can benefit from it.

“If somebody has a wonderful message to share, hold it up! People are energized by that. … There are other parishes that use and continue to use lay preachers on a regular basis,” said Tegeder. He says he doesn’t regularly use them at St. Edward.

WCCO tried to reach church leaders at the Archdiocese of Minneapolis and St. Paul for reaction, but they did not want to comment. Tegeder believes the reason this incident was amplified could be because a woman delivered the homily.

“The funny thing is they make these rules over in Rome,” said Tegeder. “You go to Rome and go to a church, you can shoot a canon through it and you’re not going to hit anyone. Nobody goes to church over there. And yet they tell us what to do when we’re fairly successful. I have a fairly strong congregation. I think they should come over here and learn a few things.”

He added that in the United States everything is black and white.

“If you have a rule it’s either can you do it, or can’t you do it. Over in Rome, well, we have this rule but you’re the pastor, you know the flock. You have to apply it. They have all these rules but they have all these exceptions. If you talk to an Italian cardinal, I don’t think he’d make a big deal about it,” said Tegeder.

Tegeder plans to continue using Busse to perform other services outside of mass. He also believes Nienstedt should focus on more pressing issues happening in the clergy.

“I think the church has a lot of other responsibilities they should be focused on. One of our priests was arrested for criminal sexual behavior. Last fall, one of our priests was arrested for exposing himself to an undercover agent in a public park in St. Paul. These are things I’m concerned about. And the Archbishop should be taking care of that and find out why we’re not attracting healthier people into the ministry,” said Tegeder.

To be a priest or pastor is a calling…
1Tim3:1-7 listed the qualification of an overseer. Also, the Word of God proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11-12). In the church, God assigns different roles to men and women. This is a result of the way mankind was created and the way in which sin entered the world (1 Timothy 2:13-14). God, through the apostle Paul, restricts women from serving in roles of teaching and/or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors over men, which definitely includes preaching to, teaching, and having spiritual authority.

To God be the glory…

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

There are many avenues to do this without taking away the role and importance of the priest.

Why must the priest be the one to give ALL the sermons? Whether the pastor is a gifted speaker or not, if the parish is blessed with a knowledgeable parishioner who can give a fine sermon, it ought to take advantage of that.

All these community concerns are precisely why nobody sees the importance of priests or have reverence for the mass or Eucharist.

How is having a layman giving the homily disrespect for the Mass or the Eucharist?

The Gospel is the Word of the Lord because we have actual quotations from Christ and the priest himself acting in his role should be the one to explain the message of the readings during mass to drive home the fact that teaching authority and correct interpretation belongs to the Church.

That is NOT the purpose of a homily. The purpose of the homily is to deliver the message of whatever topic is being preached about. It isn’t to affirm that teaching authority belongs only to the Church.

 

[TMC]

Is it not what protestants do? if you like laity taking over just go to protestants congregations. the CC has laws and rules that needs to be followed.

Did you read my post? I said that we must follow the rules, but that I would like to see some of the rules change. I see nothing wrong with having qualified non-priests giving the homily. There is nothing “protestant” about that, and frankly I am a bit put-off by your suggestion that I leave the Church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Did you read my post? I said that we must follow the rules, but that I would like to see some of the rules change. I see nothing wrong with having qualified non-priests giving the homily. There is nothing “protestant” about that, and frankly I am a bit put-off by your suggestion that I leave the Church.

I have nothing against you but your opinions and I am frankly dissapointed at people who wants to change everything in the Church of always. It was never done in teh Church and it should never be accepted. We should be concerned in preserving what the Church has always done. Listen to ST Paul, all his teachings are the HS teachings.

 

[TMC]

I have nothing against you but your opinions and I am frankly dissapointed at people who wants to change everything in the Church of always. It was never done in teh Church and it should never be accepted. We should be concerned in preserving what the Church has always done.

Very, very few things have always been done in the Church. The rules on preaching are merely a discipline, not an article of faith, and the Church can change them if she decides they should be changed. Catholics should follow the current rules on preaching, but there is no reason why Catholics can’t also discuss whether or not its a good idea to change the rules.

Listen to ST Paul, all his teachings are the HS teachings.

I agree that Paul’s teachings are important to the Church, but where does Paul say that lay people should not preach?

 

[HollyDolly]

I don’t know the reason why this priest or any would have a lay person give the homily or sermon, unless they themselves are too lazy to do so.As far as women giving sermons, well I do know that the early Church had women deaconesses, but I don’t think we know much about the role.I know they assisted in the baptisim of women and did charitable work and such,but whether they gave sermons or stood on the street corner and preached the gospel who know. Peter Waldo, from whom the Waldesians take their name,studied the bible and other texts. He wished to preach, but the bishop and others objected be cause he was a layman.Yet many people often come to Christ because of someone they know,whether Catholic or Protestant,who trys to live the gospels in their daily life and are always cheerful and kind to people,etc.We maybe that person’s first encounter with Christ in a long time. They may have fallen away and no longer go to church regardless of their denomination.They may approach us because they feel that maybe we won’t judge them as harshly as a priest or preacher.And Jesus did tell us to spread the Good News.
If a lay person does give the homily, let it be perhasp the deacon,if it has to be done at all.
Has never happend at the parish I go to.

 

[Alan55]

This issue cuts close to home for me. Some 25 years ago my wife and I attended the Paulist Center in Boston, where a married woman on the ministerial staff gave a sermon during the Good Friday service (technically not a mass but a communion service). When he found out about it, then-Cardinal Law of Boston threatened to throw the Paulist Fathers out of the Paulist Center in Boston and shut it down or re-staff it. My wife, who was in the RCIA program and planning to become a Catholic, decided not to go through with reception into the Church as a result. To this day she refuses to become a Catholic, citing this incident and the Church’s poor treatment of women. The fact that she did not become a Catholic eventually meant that we did not raise our son as a Catholic and prevented me from becoming a deacon in my diocese, despite the strong recommendation of my pastor.

Occasional lay preaching under the supervision of the pastor strikes me as perfectly acceptable, assuming that the lay person is a good speaker and has something to say. Since so many lay persons fill church staff positions and have advanced theological training – some far better trained and more capable preachers than most priests – I think the time has come to relax this discipline, particularly in situations in which one priest serves a number of parishes. Of course, some lay people will not be good preachers, as some have noted. However, I daresay that the level of preaching will increase, not decrease, on the average, and that the people of God will be well served by such a change.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

then-Cardinal Law of Boston threatened to throw the Paulist Fathers out of the Paulist Center in Boston and shut it down or re-staff it. My wife, who was in the RCIA program and planning to become a Catholic, decided not to go through with reception into the Church as a result.

Bernard Francis Law. You need say no more.

 

[jdnation]

Why must the priest be the one to give ALL the sermons? Whether the pastor is a gifted speaker or not, if the parish is blessed with a knowledgeable parishioner who can give a fine sermon, it ought to take advantage of that.

How is having a layman giving the homily disrespect for the Mass or the Eucharist?

That is NOT the purpose of a homily. The purpose of the homily is to deliver the message of whatever topic is being preached about. It isn’t to affirm that teaching authority belongs only to the Church.

The homily is part of the mass, and the mass as a whole is representitive of far greater things. Every action and detail has been given a meaning, and the role of the priest especially in what he does and how he does and says things carries this with it. Such things must always be kept in mind, because all these are reminders to the people about more than just the topic of the homily.

It is also meant to discourage potential abuses and heresies from uninformed laypeople to get passed through and to discourage any sort of subtle rebellion. Though given the quality of quite a number of priests I dare say that some laypeople are better qualified these days… Anyway, that’s how it is. And as I said, there are lots of other ways to allow lay people to lecture the parishioners. Our Parish does it all the time before the dismissal by inviting people or nuns to speak about certain things. We’ve never had any problems.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

It is also meant to discourage potential abuses and heresies from uninformed laypeople to get passed through and to discourage any sort of subtle rebellion.

It seems that the same might be said of some of the clergy.

Though given the quality of quite a number of priests I dare say that some laypeople are better qualified these days.

Yes. That’s why it might be good to have an orthodox, educated, knowledgeable layman give the sermon. Not even every sermon, but a few on Sundays.