Catholic priest Pennsylvania scandal

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My reference was to the John Jay report and the US. Comparing the US to any other country in terms of statistics of abuse is not particularly helpful to the conversation. There are any number of reasons why one country can have a higher rate of incidents than another, making any comparisons debatable.
 
fin said:
So you are correct that most of the abusers wers men, but they were also women.
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In the full list of accused abusers posted by the Diocese of Erie, which included lay employees of the Diocese, there were several lay people who, based on their names, were women and had been accused of sexual abuse.
Obviously if you’re looking at clergy who abuse, most of them are going to be men because women aren’t allowed to be priests, seminarians or deacons, but yes, there are a lot of women who sexually abuse.
 
Prodigal_Son said:
Why would this policy change with an adult? Harassment is not something that merely happens to children.

Perhaps the problem – and a problem evident with McCarrick – is that the Church has intense and strict polices about relating to children, but insanely lax policies about sexual harassment of adults. I’m open to being corrected, but that is my observation.
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From a realistic standpoint, a priest is from time to time going to have to be alone with another adult, whether it’s a parish employee, one of his fellow priests, someone who he is counseling in private - although I think in the counseling case the priest would be prudent to have other staff working in the building these days and not be there completely alone with no one else around anywhere - we just had a case in Delaware where a priest was attacked and almost killed by a man he was counseling, and had to be rescued by his staff as the man was beating him senseless in his office.

Most of us who work in offices have also had times of being alone with our bosses, such as in an office with the door shut, or working late on a project, or on a business trip.

From a practical standpoint, it is not always possible to have a third adult around watching all interactions between two adults. An adult is expected to understand that abusive behavior is not normal and take steps to protect/ defend himself or herself. However, a child or even a teen is not expected to have that understanding or that ability.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
From a practical standpoint, it is not always possible to have a third adult around watching all interactions between two adults. An adult is expected to understand that abusive behavior is not normal and take steps to protect/ defend himself or herself. However, a child or even a teen is not expected to have that understanding or that ability.
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I think you took the comment I made in the opposite direction as I intended. My point was more that sometimes it is worth trusting people, because private conversations can be so very valuable and people can have proven themselves worthy of trust. I think that is true for one-on-one conversations involving adults or children. I know my children have benefited from one-on-one conversations with other adults that they (and we) trust. Usually these conversations take place “off to the side” of a semi-public place, but I know plenty of adults who I would trust alone with my kids. (Hence, you know, babysitters?)

My comment about harassment was a response to the idea that somehow turning 18 makes one magically immune to manipulation and abuse. You’re right that adults are “expected to understand” the relevant lines, but many of us don’t. And many older children, ironically, do. Nothing is neat and tidy in these matters, in my experience.
 
Who and what are Rod Dreher-ing?
I see he’s a blogger, but what’s it about?
 
Well, I didn’t mean to say that was worse. I just used it to illustrate we’ve had bad clergy before.

And it is true that raping a child is much more terrible than desecrating dead folks.
 
There is an AP story today that gives the big picture: Church sex scandal: Abuse victims want a full reckoning

“US bishops have acknowledged that more than 17,000 people nationwide have reported being molested lby priests and other in the church going back to 1950.”

“Only about 40 of the nearly 200 dioceses in the US have released lists of priests accused of abusing children, and there have been only nine investigations by a prosecutor or grand jury of a Catholic diocese or archdiocese in the US.”
 
Erikaspirit16 said:
there have been only nine investigations by a prosecutor or grand jury of a Catholic diocese or archdiocese in the US.
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This is a large monetary expenditure, and will only be done if either (a) the public calls for it, which they very well might, or (b) the prosecutor thinks this will either result in significant cases to prosecute, or will make him somehow “look good” to those who vote for him or for the person who appointed him.
 
phil19034 said:
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spockrates:
I mean, this is a reason I struggle with returning to Catholicism. I don’t see such wide-spread sin of this kind in Christian denominations I’ve considered (just isolated incidents) so…
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It is just as wide-spread in other Christian denominations… but they are simply not getting the attention

Here is an article from GetReligion
Sex abuse in Protestant life: Is Rachael Denhollander the tip of a newsworthy iceberg? — GetReligion

Six Myths About Clergy Sexual Abuse in the Catholic Church | Psychology Today
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Thanks. So, I’ve attended two Evangelical churches where the pastors (both extremely talented speakers) were removed from their positions for immoral sexual contact (having an extramarital affair with a member of the church). In both cases the pastors were told they could never be pastors again, even though most of the members of their congregations wanted them to stay.

Perhaps that’s the difference? You sin seriously outside the Church, you’re no longer a pastor. You sin seriously inside the Church, you’re moved to another parish? Or are there cases where priests are removed, now?
 
How many people are living with the nauseated memory of having been abused sexually? Once this is committed on a child or young person they are scarred. The millstone and the bottom of the sea awaits the perpetrator. A priest that is homosexual could develop an obsessive need to engage in sexual relations, not having a ready partner, an innocent child could substitute very easily. IMO celibacy is not an excuse nor a reason to blame this sinful crime. IMO same sex attraction is a weakness and vulnerability to begin this process.The same holds for women that are obsessed with the attraction. These dangerous people are more vocal and visible in their acts and breeds more of the same.
This sin has been around since Our Lord’s time and he spoke about it. Why do we ignore the lesson today. Have we been conditioned to think that its “normal not deviant”, and “acceptable” among those of like mindedness? Where does that come from?
Now, I suppose the angry voices of those that have a special interest in same-sex marriage, pedophilia pornography, lawsuits against bakers that refuse to celebrate their partnering as a marriage before God, will roll. Have at it! P.S. Abortion is mortal sin!
 
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spockrates said:
Or are there cases where priests are removed, now?
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Nowadays an accused priest is gone very quickly, and if the legal system finds him guilty, he can go to prison.
They are not just transferred around any more because bishops have finally woken up to the liability issues if they do that.
 
spockrates said:
Perhaps that’s the difference? You sin seriously outside the Church, you’re no longer a pastor. You sin seriously inside the Church, you’re moved to another parish? Or are there cases where priests are removed, now?
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Today, the priests are removed.
 
It should be this way but until the Diocese openly turns complaints immediately to the Police, to verify thru investigation, they are complicit.
 
Do you have a recent example of a Diocese in USA in the last few years not doing this?

The last 2 priests I heard about having a scandal locally here (one sex abuse, one drug addiction) the police were called right away.
 
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In my diocese a priest was accused of molesting a child and he was immediately removed from service. This is NOT a church wide phenomenon. This is a group of Bishops who failed. But not ALL Bishops fail in the same way.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
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spockrates:
Or are there cases where priests are removed, now?
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Nowadays an accused priest is gone very quickly, and if the legal system finds him guilty, he can go to prison.
They are not just transferred around any more because bishops have finally woken up to the liability issues if they do that.
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That’s good!
 
The Saginaw MI Diocese recently drew “raids” on three locations, including the Bishop’s home. Don’t know the results … silence.
 
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