Catholic Public Domain Version

[TypesAndShadows]

Hi Ron,

Congratulations! That must have taken several years of hard work.

Just curious, do you have it in a format that can be parsed? Like xml?

Having it in a format like xml would make it very simple for a developer to turn it into a module for programs to consume and display. Such as for desktop programs, apps for phones and tablets, websites etc.

On Ron’s website for his translation, he included specific prophecies in his reasons for creating this translation. This included the prophecy that, by this July that has just passed, the “city of the Vatican” would be destroyed. I consider this an excellent, testable prophecy, that allows one to judge whether this was genuine and trustworthy. Case closed.

 

[irenaeuslyons]

On Ron’s website for his translation, he included specific prophecies in his reasons for creating this translation. This included the prophecy that, by this July that has just passed, the “city of the Vatican” would be destroyed. I consider this an excellent, testable prophecy, that allows one to judge whether this was genuine and trustworthy. Case closed.

Why are you replying to me with case closed?

 

[denton_catholic]

St. Ambrose:

I can’t tell you how thankful I am for your response. By the way, I use St. Jerome for the few times I communicate anonymously on the Internet, like on Amazon.

So, here’s my question. And I’m almost embarrassed to ask because it seems so small minded and short-sighted. But it’s what is nagging at me so I might as well be honest.

Just the slightest bit of background. I came into the Catholic faith five years ago. Ethnically Jewish, but married into wonderful Italian Catholic family. Agreed kids would be raised Catholic, and they are in (and have always been in) Catholic school. Long story short, when I came to faith, I came to faith by studying my way into faith. That’s why I have chosen St. Jerome as my Saint.

I tend to be (and this is a strong tendency) fairly rigid and conservative in all things (a plus and minus at times!). I like the idea of tradition.

I really enjoy Knox and when I read the Bible it speaks to me at times in ways no other translation does. I am very much into Bible translation, and constantly look at as many different versions as possible when studying Scripture. Some of the translation choices used by Knox have bothered me, but when I examined his reasons, I have come to appreciate his translation. So, too, I can see the depth of using the word “maid” to convey something more, and arguably even something more supernatural than, use of the word “virgin.” BUT, Catholic faith and tradition and St. Jerome is so rooted, and rightly so, in the word “virgin,” in Isaiah, that I find this a stumbling block. Enough to toss aside the entire Bible version.

So, please help me on this one. Do I stick with Knox despite this reservation, or stick with the Douay Rheims? My wife thinks it’s silly to toss aside the entire Knox Bible over this. But something tells me if you are going to tinker and change something so important and fundamental to the entire Catholic faith, then it’s a version you should not be reading. At least not as a primary source as opposed to occasional consultation.

Any additional insight you may have, or anyone else for that matter, is greatly appreciated! Thanks and God Bless

 

[AmbroseSJ]

@ denton catholic: Thanks for the kind words, and congrats on finding the fullness of Truth in Catholicism. It must have been a very costly decision. But I have to agree with the Mrs.; Ronald Knox can really shine in some circumstances. The Pauline epistles are really his strong suit. But for the OT, since it is still a translation from the Vulgate, albeit with some rare aberrations, (like Isaiah 7:14) he is otherwise orthodox. For example he translates Genesis 3:15 very much in line with the D/R and the Vulgate, and passes over the Dead Sea Scrolls (or the Greek/Hebrew) in this case. Same goes for Luke 1:28. He still uses the expression “full of grace.” 3 verses very much concerned with the BVM and Marian doctrines, and those same verses watered down or dramatically changed in the Greek/Hebrew translations. They have become sore spots with many old time Catholics, as well as yourself! I think the fact that the English Catholic Church used his translation in the Liturgy is a very good approbation for his work and its orthodoxy. If you find any more jarring judgements in translation I would be interested in hearing about them.

p.s. by orthodox I mean true to the Vulgate.

 

[denton_catholic]

Thank you SJAmborse! Really appreciate your help. Whatever little anguish I experienced in my conversion has paid dividends a thousand times over! Love being Catholic! Thanks again and God Bless!!

 

[TypesAndShadows]

Why are you replying to me with case closed?

Sorry if this was unclear. You were discussing how useful Ron Conte’s Public Domain translation would be. I was pointing out that the reason he gives for why we’ll need it and why he did it includes very specific prophecies that have not come to pass. If the lack of Imprimatur was not enough, this should be.

Unless I misunderstood, and you were meaning the Ronald Knox Bible?

 

[Ron_Conte]

On Ron’s website for his translation, he included specific prophecies in his reasons for creating this translation. This included the prophecy that, by this July that has just passed, the “city of the Vatican” would be destroyed. I consider this an excellent, testable prophecy, that allows one to judge whether this was genuine and trustworthy. Case closed.

There were no “specific prophecies” in my reason for translating the entire Latin Vulgate into modern English. I only said that I expect the tribulation to begin soon.

My writings in eschatology are speculative and fallible. These writings are not “prophesies”, but speculative eschatology.

 

[Ron_Conte]

While it is certainly a notable accomplishment to translate the entire Bible from the Vulgate, it’s hard for me to understand why a Vulgate-based translation would be superior to one from the original Greek and Hebrew. Modern archaeology has found Greek and Hebrew texts that are older than Jerome’s Vulgate (commissioned in 382 AD), so why use the Latin text as a major basis for an English translation?
-Joe Offer-

Older texts are not necessarily better. The Dead Sea Scrolls include versions of OT books used by the Essenes at Qumran. But they were a separatist group that followed an altered version of Judaism. And those texts were never used in the Church. Usage is important to the authenticity of the text.

The Latin Vulgate has been used for centuries by the Living Tradition and the Magisterium. This long use by the Church allowed the Council of Trent to declare:

“that the said old and vulgate edition, which, by the lengthened usage of so many years, has been approved of in the Church, be, in public lectures, disputations, sermons and expositions, held as authentic; and that no one is to dare, or presume to reject it under any pretext whatever.”

and

“But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition; and knowingly and deliberately contemn the traditions aforesaid; let him be anathema.”

The truths of Scripture can be expressed clearly in any language. But the Latin Vulgate has the advantage of " the lengthened usage of so many years".

 

[patrick457]

Older texts are not necessarily better. The Dead Sea Scrolls include versions of OT books used by the Essenes at Qumran. But they were a separatist group that followed an altered version of Judaism. And those texts were never used in the Church. Usage is important to the authenticity of the text.

Just to comment on a single point: leaving aside the question as to whether the Qumran sectarians were really some kind of Essenes or some other group, I wouldn’t exactly say that they “followed an altered version of Judaism” because there was really no fixed ‘Judaism’ at that time. In other words, the Essenes and the Pharisees and whatnot are all simply following particular ‘Judaisms’ of their own.