Catholic Question - Why don't the clergy marry?

[PJM]

=Xavierlives; (I’ve ventured into the Catholic forums 2 months ago and have never really asked a Catholic question)

1 Tim. 3:1-5 says
1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

If the Bible makes provisions for marriage and a family, why don’t the clergy marry?

***The PRACTICE of an unmarried clergy within the CC is just that. “A Church “Practice” and as such is able to be changed, although this is quite unlikely. It is neither doctrine or dogma.

Sacred Tradition and Prudence over a 2000 year span, most of which included this practice, have clearly demonstrated, the wise application of this position. Jesus Himself tells us “ “If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.” Mark 3: 24-25.* And this from Mt. 6: 24 is also applicable to this discussion. “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon“. I am not saying that marriage equates to Satan, or evil however LUST has sent many to hell. And trying to be a husband, father, and Priest at the same time is courting trouble. Not an impossibility, but an unnecessary hardship.

The first miracle that Christ performed was at Cana, where He turned ordinary water into extraordinary wine. It was here that Christ Instituted the Sacrament of matrimony , and introduced His Divinity. [As a side note, this miracle was to foretell our Lords later institution of His real Presence in Catholic Holy Communion.]

Mt. 28:19-20 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” ‘[This too is evidence of Christ Real Presence.]

John.15: 16 “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.”

1 Cor. 7: 8 “I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do.”

Because one is called by God for the sacrament of Holy Orders, one is assured of sufficient GRACE from God, to live the life that is freely committed to. One is never forced to be a Priest, and one goes into this call from God, knowing what is expected, and freely offering this sacrifice up to God.

Because an unmarried Priesthood is so effective, it is unlikely to change.**

Love and prayers,

Pat

 

[fish90]

Great Post!!!

 

[choy]

Actually, that verse does not say that he must be married. It does say that he may not have but one wife.

If Jesus had intended bishops to be married, all of the Apostles would have been married. We know that Peter was, but not any of the rest. We know that Paul was not. We do not even know the status of Peter’s wife, though tradition tells us his son was named Mark.

its in one of Peter’s Epistles where he say he is with his son, Mark

is the Mark his scribe and Gospel writer the same Mark? did he just refer to him as his son without being his biological son? i’m confused on that part

 

[choy]

some of the earlier popes were also married

i’m curious when did the practice of celibacy became part of the vows of a priest?

 

[choy]

Actually some Catholic Clergy are ordian and married. The pope (John Paul II and Benidict vI) have allowed Priest from the Anglican communion to be ordian Catholic priest and remain married.

Also there is the (little know in the US) eastern rite Catholic Church (Eastern/Orthodox Churches in communion with Rome) Examples of eastern rite catholics are the Byzantine Catholic, Ukrainian Catholics, and Etc. They report directly to the pope and their priest are allowed to be married. I do believe they can not become Bishops and married.(but I am not sure on that fact)

i think thats correct. married priests cannot become bishops

in the Latin Rite, married men can become Permanent Deacons

the hard rule is that you cannot get married after you received the Sacrament of Holy Orders

 

[po18guy]

its in one of Peter’s Epistles where he say he is with his son, Mark

is the Mark his scribe and Gospel writer the same Mark? did he just refer to him as his son without being his biological son? i’m confused on that part

The Gospel according to Mark is believed to have been written by John Mark, a cousin of Barnabas and companion of Saint Paul. Christian tradition agrees that he was either the interpreter or translator for Simon Peter. He is referred to in Acts 12:12, Colossians 4:10, 2 Timothy 4:11, 1 Peter 5:13 and elsewhere. Peter refers to him as “son” in much the same way as Paul mentions that he had become a father to Timothy, who was not related to him.

 

[Xavierlives]

***The PRACTICE of an unmarried clergy within the CC is just that. “A Church “Practice” and as such is able to be changed, although this is quite unlikely. It is neither doctrine or dogma.

Sacred Tradition and Prudence over a 2000 year span, most of which included this practice, have clearly demonstrated, the wise application of this position. Jesus Himself tells us “ “If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.” Mark 3: 24-25.*** And this from Mt. 6: 24 is also applicable to this discussion. “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon“. I am not saying that marriage equates to Satan, or evil however LUST has sent many to hell. And trying to be a husband, father, and Priest at the same time is courting trouble. Not an impossibility, but an unnecessary hardship.

The first miracle that Christ performed was at Cana, where He turned ordinary water into extraordinary wine. It was here that Christ Instituted the Sacrament of matrimony , and introduced His Divinity. [As a side note, this miracle was to foretell our Lords later institution of His real Presence in Catholic Holy Communion.]

Mt. 28:19-20 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” ‘[This too is evidence of Christ Real Presence.]

John.15: 16 “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.”

1 Cor. 7: 8 “I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own special gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do.”

Because one is called by God for the sacrament of Holy Orders, one is assured of sufficient GRACE from God, to live the life that is freely committed to. One is never forced to be a Priest, and one goes into this call from God, knowing what is expected, and freely offering this sacrifice up to God.

Because an unmarried Priesthood is so effective, it is unlikely to change.

Love and prayers,

Pat

So, the Catholic Church has records of when this tradition started?

 

[fish90]

So, the Catholic Church has records of when this tradition started?

Yep.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priestly_celibacy

Somebody can find better sources for you.

 

[po18guy]

So, the Catholic Church has records of when this tradition started?

Yes, but not from the source that you would imagine: Saint Paul. 1 Corinthians 7:32-34 (King James Version) “But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife. There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.”

Thus come virgins consecrated tot he Lord, both male and female.

We do not know that marital status of any of the twelve - only that Simon Peter was married at some point.

apostles.com/apostlesmarried.html

Again, celibacy is a grace from God and is a discipline, and not a tradition. It can be changed.

The source of this discipline is our Lord Jesus Himself Who, of course, remained celibate: Matthew 19:12 (King James Version) “For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.”

A very Merry Christmas and a new year of peace to you.

 

[KathleenGee]

Hello Xavierlives…this is an endless diliemna for English speaking people. If you ever get the calling to be a priest but want to get married, if you aren’t already, then aim for the Eastern rite churches. They can.

The Latin rite will always be celibate but it wasn’t always so…St. John the Evangelist was celibate…Mary and Joseph were…there are people in the church who make vows like marriage, are dearest of friends–men and women, but do not have conjugal relations.

Priests in the past married…and they also left their wives and had affairs…and some did worse…and people were very mad and did not want their stipends used to support such ‘arrangements’.

Grace works through nature. The Catholic Church in its primitive state did not look like the church several hundreds of years later or so on. When celibacy was no longer an option, the Church was ready for this discipline…and people were fed up on scandals as well.

I have worked with priests…if they had families, they would not be able to go into deep spiritual depths or be available for people when they needed a priest. They get up at all hours of the night to go out…in the day time, they are swamped with work…like a priest told me, when we rest, we want to be alone!!!

Most priests also say they never have regretted their choice. They are very happy.

I know a priest of whom I worked with most closely…He shared with me his memories of considering marriage but felt the call to the priesthood much stronger…we reconnected this past year, and all I can tell you is that this man lived a most heroic life in a war zone, saying Mass, then when famine came, going out every day to help the poor and starving…he endured there for 28 years. He is back home now. He did spiritual work and did many good things for buildings there as well. He is now pastor of a parish that has a history of bloodshed in bygone days…If he had married, he would not have done all that he had or been such a witness to our faith…

At the beginning, a priest may think about it …for a little bit…then the invites come for dinner, outings, trips, etc…they have a most full social life! The religious priests have a more indepth fraternity and special vows of poverty, chastity and obedience and bear great graces as well…

Praise to you Lord Jesus Christ!!!

 

[Yerusalyim]

The reason that a priest may never marry (once ordained) is because this priest has taken on the role and Personhood of Christ in a mysterious, Sacramental way. Thus, he is essentially married to Christ and married to the Church, JUST AS Christ Himselfis married to the Church.And, since the priest already has a Bride (the Church), how can he take another bride?(This is prefigured in O.T. Testament times: the priests who rotated terms of service in the Temple were required to practice sexual fasting during the time of their service. We see this at the beginning of St. Luke’s gospel when he presents us with the account of Zachary and Elizabeth and the conception of John.) **

In becoming a priest, the ordained man has consecrated himself to the service of Christ’s Bride in the person of Christ Himself.* As in Baptism, the priest has “died with Christ,” but now for the sake of this Bride and service to this Bride.Thus, it would be alien to the nature of the Christian priesthood for the ordained man to enter into a subsequent covenant (e.g. marriage) or to have any secular purpose to his life or vocation (e.g. inheriting a kingly throne) that would detract from his commitment to be an “alter Christus” for the Church and the eschatological significance that goes with it.

So, in short, a priest’s inability to marry after ordination is not a mere discipline, but something intrinsic to the Sacrament of Ordination itself.*One’s priesthood is a matter of Sacramental reality -a reality than can never be removed (even if one is laisized).

You are absolutely incorrect. There is NOTHING intrinsic about ordination that would prohibit marriage…NOTHING…to say that would also be to say that there was something intrinsic about marriage that would prohibit ordination. The restriction against married men being ordained is unique to the Latin rite of the Church…other rites of the Catholic Church allow married men to be ordained.

I also challenge the idea that Paul was not married…I think he was a widower…but might have even been married at the time of his converstion. Here’s the argument…Paul was a Rabbi that actually went to school to earn the title…rather than receiving the title honorifically as Christ had earned it. One of the requirements to be an “ordained” Rabbi was to be a married man. Also, remember, Paul was a Jew faithful to the Law even after his conversion.

 

[KyivAndrew]

Also there is the (little know in the US) eastern rite Catholic Church (Eastern/Orthodox Churches in communion with Rome) Examples of eastern rite catholics are the Byzantine Catholic, Ukrainian Catholics, and Etc. They report directly to the pope and their priest are allowed to be married. I do believe they can not become Bishops and married.(but I am not sure on that fact)

Well, I do hope we are not little-known but yes, Ukrainian Catholic priests can be married before being ordained, but married clergy cannot become bishops in our Catholic Church.

God Bless everyone!

 

[KyivAndrew]

Oh and just by way of personal experience, we Ukrainian Catholics also of course have priests that choose not to marry but of all the priests I ever encountered the most blessed was a Father Galk (I’ll say). He was incredible. After the Soviets reconquered Ukraine after World War Two and forced Ukrainian Catholics to renounce their faith or be sent to the Gulag or tortured (as many bishops were) unless they joined the stated-sanctioned Russian Orthodox Church, father Galk calmly took his priestly capacity into hiding. This brave man would go from village to village in Ukraine, administering sacraments, confessions, baptisms, liturgies, in forests, hiding spots, at great risk to himself (and his family) while keeping a normal job in the day. The Soviets finally let him out of the empire in the 1960s as an exception to their iron curtain because they thought the man was too old and his wife too and they would surely die soon.

He came to my parish. He lived another 30 years as parish priest! He cared for everyone and had that noble religious calmness and love that one sees in a true shepherd. He was quite simply, a man like no other I had met.

In North America, he took to beekeeping as a hobby and enjoyed it thoroughly. Throughout the 60s, 70s, and 80s, he insisted that he had to live to 1988 to see the Commemoration of the Millennium of Christianity in Ukraine which meant he would have to live to 100 years old (born 1888). He did (and so did his wife) and he celebrated our parish’s official liturgy. He passed away the next year in the late winter. Funny thing. At his burial, with the snow still not melted, a whole hive of honey bees arriving from nowhere hovered over his tombstone for the entire service. He was a saintly man.

 

[KathleenGee]

KyivAndrew,

Thank you for the post…your priest sounds similar to the one I know who is alive in Andria, Italy.

I know a Maronite priest, celibate, who said that the Latin rite is the administrators, theologians, the lawmakers over the whole church. Because of the issue of governance through the seat of Peter, I am wondering if this is the reason the Latin rite is to be celibate now…I know scandals led to mandatory celibacy as well…

But I am also beginning to see the Latin rite as administrative and law making…and it requires that much more devotion.

The Maronites are rather disposed to the contemplative side of faith…I think there are references to the Eastern rites…more mystical, interior…but not sure…

 

[PJM]

=choy;6088525]its in one of Peter’s Epistles where he say he is with his son, Mark

is the Mark his scribe and Gospel writer the same Mark? did he just refer to him as his son without being his biological son? i’m confused on that part

***Yes

Just as Christ calls us “sons” the Apostles often used the same term:

Mt. 5:9, Lk. 6:35, Jn. 12:36, and Paul Acts 9:15:thumbsup:

Love and prayers,

Pat***

 

[Xavierlives]

So because this is a “tradition” there can be this variations in the branches of the Catholicism and this isn’t viewed as a contradiction because it is a tradition and not doctrine. Maybe I need to explore catholic tradition more.

 

[po18guy]

So because this is a “tradition” there can be this variations in the branches of the Catholicism and this isn’t viewed as a contradiction because it is a tradition and not doctrine. Maybe I need to explore catholic tradition more.

Well, “tradition” refers to a couple of things. We have Sacred Tradition, which is the non-written, Spirit guided teaching handed down from the Apostles. It cannot change, as it is revelation from God. It is referred to as large “T” tradition. Then we have small ‘t’ tradition, which encompasses things that are not related to revelation. They can and occasionally do change. Priestly celibacy, while also considered a tradition, is more correctly called a discipline of the Church.

 

[KathleenGee]

(Yes,…we have Scripture and traditions and the only way you can deal with them is simply live them out in your own diocese…and usually ones around you practice same…small t traditions…that might encompass a country or group of countries…but when you go to a different region far from you, you notice their culture right away, learn it but when Mass starts, you can then identify the parts of the Mass and the meaning is the same…)

Latin rite is only one requiring celibacy that i can think of…

 

[StrawberryJam]

(Yes,…we have Scripture and traditions and the only way you can deal with them is simply live them out in your own diocese…and usually ones around you practice same…small t traditions…that might encompass a country or group of countries…but when you go to a different region far from you, you notice their culture right away, learn it but when Mass starts, you can then identify the parts of the Mass and the meaning is the same…)

Latin rite is only one requiring celibacy that i can think of…

Thank goodness catholics have a worship service, that anyone from any part of the world can kinda follow, because they may not know the language but they do know the parts of the Mass that take place, why and when. Must be like breathing.

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes, Catholicism is wholistic, earthy, connected to both heaven and earth…always seeking truth and beauty…and unity with all…with integrity.

Mostly, the Church is mystery…when you realize how many people are on so many different levels just in one parish…but we connect with Jesus and the divine through the sacraments…Jesus lives in them…

When we enter our churches, we bless ourselves with holy water to recall our baptism with the sign of the cross – the price Our Lord paid for our salvation and freedom…albeit interior with that…

Ask for faith …we take one little step towards the Lord in faith…today is Christmas Day…and the Lord takes the 99 steps to us…it is like that every day in the walk of perfection…union with God which is pure Charity…climbing the mountain (our sinfulness as well we climb over) of the Lord requires purity of heart and soul and avoiding lies…it doesn’t require intellectual reasoning, rather saying yes and stepping out just one step…with the Lord…as He takes a huge reach out to you.

Merry Christmas and may the Baby Jesus be born in you today that you will bear the everlasting innocence and sweetness to touch your entire life…and to underline such a sweet name as yours!