Catholic Question - Why don't the clergy marry?

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ralphinal said:
I would at least want to be considered a kind and considerate human on earth…
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Kindness is only good to a point (I think that point is reached at intellectual insincerity). If dissent is viewed as unkindness, then kindness has lost any substantive value (and in fact it becomes an oppressive idea).

Plus, I’m a New Yorker 🙂
 
I used to wonder this, then came around to the points most of you have made ( and this was after finding out this wasnt a dogma). It would be hard to be torn between the church and the wife and if they did get married they darn well better get a wife who could handle it. That being said, I know of a situation where a priest was living with a woman , as her husband, for around 20 years. He finally left the priesthood and married her. I asked him how his consience could let him do that and he replied that the Orthodox priests were allowed to be married. I should mention that most people in his congregation knew about this and even assumed that the woman’s child was his (the child wasnt, it was from her previous relationship). No one seemed to hold it against him. As someone else mentioned, isnt that the equivelent of adulderty? Why is it that a marriage can be annulled but a vow to the priesthood cannot?
 
char1963 said:
I used to wonder this, then came around to the points most of you have made ( and this was after finding out this wasnt a dogma). It would be hard to be torn between the church and the wife and if they did get married they darn well better get a wife who could handle it. That being said, I know of a situation where a priest was living with a woman , as her husband, for around 20 years. He finally left the priesthood and married her. I asked him how his consience could let him do that and he replied that the Orthodox priests were allowed to be married. I should mention that most people in his congregation knew about this and even assumed that the woman’s child was his (the child wasnt, it was from her previous relationship). No one seemed to hold it against him. As someone else mentioned, isnt that the equivelent of adulderty? Why is it that a marriage can be annulled but a vow to the priesthood cannot?
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I do not know canon law that well, but I would think that some of the same things that can cause an annulment to be granted could negate a vow to the priesthood, such as making it under duress and being unable to actually consent. The difference is that the formation process is so long, the chance of any of those being an issue is slim
 
bridgeforsale said:
Kindness is only good to a point (I think that point is reached at intellectual insincerity). If dissent is viewed as unkindness, then kindness has lost any substantive value (and in fact it becomes an oppressive idea).

Plus, I’m a New Yorker 🙂
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You can dissent without the snide comments. Wait, nevermind. You are a Yankee. 😛
 
ralphinal said:
You can dissent without the snide comments. Wait, nevermind. You are a Yankee. 😛
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Grrr… Yankees… I hate the Yankees. Oh, wait. You are referring to Northerners, not necessarily the Yankees.
 
char1963 said:
I used to wonder this, then came around to the points most of you have made ( and this was after finding out this wasnt a dogma). It would be hard to be torn between the church and the wife and if they did get married they darn well better get a wife who could handle it. That being said, I know of a situation where a priest was living with a woman , as her husband, for around 20 years. He finally left the priesthood and married her. I asked him how his consience could let him do that and he replied that the Orthodox priests were allowed to be married. I should mention that most people in his congregation knew about this and even assumed that the woman’s child was his (the child wasnt, it was from her previous relationship). No one seemed to hold it against him. As someone else mentioned, isnt that the equivelent of adulderty? Why is it that a marriage can be annulled but a vow to the priesthood cannot?
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Wow. A priest with a kept woman. But then again, I guess we all sin.
 
It is interesting to note that the strict requirement for strict celibacy within the Roman Catholic Church has not always been required in the Universal Church.

Most certainly, it was not required before the Great Schism between East and West - and as we Orthodox say, strict celibacy is a recent and historical Roman “innovation”. It was not part of the Ancient Church or Ancient Christian Faith prior to the split.

Today - Orthodox Clergy, known as the “Black Clergy” may marry. These are the ranks below Bishop. The “White Clergy” or the ranks of Bishop and above, are not permitted to marry, but may be widowed. These rules pretty much applied to the pre-schism Church too.

Many Catholic Clergy are also today permitted to marry according to virtually the same rules as followed by the Orthodox, and this is commonplace in the Eastern Rite, or Byzantine Rite Catholic Churches, who are of course, in full communion with Rome and the Papacy.

This indicates that whilst scriptural justification might be found one way or the other - the question of celibacy is not primarily a theological issue. Rather, it seems to be a heirarchical disciplinary issue over which practical considerations have been most important - rather than spiritual considerations.
 
So, not to completely throw this off, if they are all part of the Catholic Church, why could a priest who wants to marry, just leave the priesthood, marry, then joint the priesthood?

(This probably shows my lack of knowledge of the inner workings of the Catholic church).
 
Well, hmmmm…

I think that only Roman Catholic Clergy cannot be married at all - ever.

The Orthodox, and Byzantine/ Eastern Rite Catholics can be married below the rank of Bishop - although the requirement that they marry before they are ordained is not always applied - and dispensation can be granted for an ordained priest to marry after their ordination based upon practical considerations (say in the case of a very youthful priest)…

I guess if the priest couldn’t get permission to marry after ordination, then left the priesthood just to get married, and then applied for re-admission, the Orthodox Church (or Eastern Rite Catholics) would probably just say “sorry, but NO”.

There was a case like that here in Australia about 20 years ago, and the priest (a Byzantine Rite Catholic) was simply not re-admitted to the Catholic Church. So he applied for ordination in the Orthodox Church - and was successful, as the Orthodox considered his Orthodox ordination - his very first ordination!!!
 
Yeah… see what you mean.

I guess this underscores the point that the celibacy thing is not considered to be the biggest of all of the big issues - and is certainly not thought to be a theological article of faith, or “dogma” as you guys call it.

Still getting used to the terminology used here, but I think we are on the same page on this one mate!

I guess I have to acknowledge, that as a disciplinary rule, celibacy certainly has both advantages, and also has disadvantages. I think its important to acknowledge that Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants all see the benefits of certain ‘participations’ in the priesthood, despite marital status rules in every case, with no exceptions, being enforced.

I think that’s a positive and good thing for the broader Christian Church - as long as priests remain faithful to their own discipline and rules.
 
ralphinal said:
First, it is insulting to me as a man to say that men cannot overcome their sex drive. It says that we are not any better that dogs. THat is junk. The reason men do not overcome their sex drives is because they do not want to and society gives them a walk.

Second, you are aware that married non-Catholic clergy are more likely to have sex with their congregation than Catholic Priests, right?
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Firstly, your ability to abstain has nothing to do with God. If you succeed, well and good, if you fail, that’s really just your business. What is important is an appointment toward’s God’s service should not put at risk by binding it with burdensome requests. If the person abstain, good for him, if he wishes to marry, that’s his personal decision. Not yours to force upon him to live up to in YOUR expectation for a man who dedicates himself to God’s service.

Secondly, I am not aware of the validity of your claim. But if it is true, please refer to my answer above.
 
Mosacked said:
Firstly, your ability to abstain has nothing to do with God. If you succeed, well and good, if you fail, that’s really just your business. What is important is an appointment toward’s God’s service should not put at risk by binding it with burdensome requests. If the person abstain, good for him, if he wishes to marry, that’s his personal decision. Not yours to force upon him to live up to in YOUR expectation for a man who dedicates himself to God’s service.

Secondly, I am not aware of the validity of your claim. But if it is true, please refer to my answer above.
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See this chnetwork.org/forum/moral-and-social-doctrine/%27it-ain%27t-just-catholic-priests%27-resources-on-shocking-statistics-of-clergy-sexu/?wap2site

Now, please tell me, did Paul ever tell anyone that it was better to be single? Did Jesus ever say it? If the answer to both is yes, then it cannot be seen as burdonsome.

Besides, no one forces anyone to be single or to be married. You have the choice. Just like in everything else, choosing one may limit other choices. Can a married man have sex with whomever he wants?
 
Xavierlives said:
So, not to completely throw this off, if they are all part of the Catholic Church, why could a priest who wants to marry, just leave the priesthood, marry, then joint the priesthood?

(This probably shows my lack of knowledge of the inner workings of the Catholic church).
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The problem is that being a priest automatically creates an impediment to marriage. So, this priest cannot be married within the Catholic Church. Since his marriage would be invalid, he could not return to the Church and live life as a married couple.

However, there is a possibility that a man who is married can petition to be allowed to become a priest.

Here in Birmingham, AL, we have a priest who was married, had a family, and was a doctor. After his wife passed away, and since he had grown children, he was allowed to be ordained. That is not exactly what we are talking about. Again, there are married men who are priests.
 
ralphinal said:
The problem is that being a priest automatically creates an impediment to marriage. So, this priest cannot be married within the Catholic Church. Since his marriage would be invalid, he could not return to the Church and live life as a married couple.

However, there is a possibility that a man who is married can petition to be allowed to become a priest.

Here in Birmingham, AL, we have a priest who was married, had a family, and was a doctor. After his wife passed away, and since he had grown children, he was allowed to be ordained. That is not exactly what we are talking about. Again, there are married men who are priests.
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OOOooo… hold on. A priest cannot leave the priesthood and remain Catholic?
 
Xavierlives said:
OOOooo… hold on. A priest cannot leave the priesthood and remain Catholic?
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Nope. That is not what I said. What I said was that a priest cannot leave the priesthood, get married, then come back and be a priest.

There are times where a priest will leave the priesthood and still remain a practicing Catholic with no issues at all.
 
Some priest do marry, and some do not the one that do not is because of disciplinary rulles
 
Mosacked said:
Firstly, your ability to abstain has nothing to do with God. If you succeed, well and good, if you fail, that’s really just your business. What is important is an appointment toward’s God’s service should not put at risk by binding it with burdensome requests. If the person abstain, good for him, if he wishes to marry, that’s his personal decision. Not yours to force upon him to live up to in YOUR expectation for a man who dedicates himself to God’s service.

Secondly, I am not aware of the validity of your claim. But if it is true, please refer to my answer above.
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Priests don’t have to abstain. It is by their choice. They don’t have to be priests after all. Married life alone is such a HUGE commitment, no matter the marriage. It is a thing of beauty that the priests give up for Christ and his Church. It isn’t just OUR expectations for a man. It is also their own expectations for themselves. They enter into it fully aware of what they are doing, most times anyway. There are the few that don’t grasp it.

It’s their choice, their gift, and their lives to decide. If it’s not right for them, they don’t have to be priests my friend. No one is forcing them.
 
With the greatest of respect to all who have commented here, i repeat what I said earlier.

It is obvious that marriage can be an advantage, as well as a disadvantage to a dutiful and devout priest in any Church.

Advantages: Support, understanding, love, family life, less sexual temptation, greater affinity with the broader congregation etc…

Disadvantages: Distraction, divided loyalties, cleanliness in the eyes of God etc…

I understand that some Catholic Rites and the Orthodox have no prohibitive disciplinary rule regarding marriage for the Black Clergy.

Surely, reason and the specific role and circumstances of the individual Priest must have relevance and be considered. Surely.
 
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