Catholic responses to Blake Ostler (Mormon apologist)?

[lax16]

Even when I get caught up in the questions, I’ve always found his Catholic Church has a very reasoned answer. Sometimes it may take me 20 years to understand it but the answer is always there.

I have found the same thing.

And it all starts with obedience!

 

[lax16]

“like most LDS, you consider truth and facts rude.”

No. But I do admit that there are some of LDS people who do consider bad news rude. I could tell you some funny stories about BYU … I was never like that, even when I was LDS.

I wonder how many Catholics on this site could say with a straight face that they do not think that your posts about Mormons are rude, Tex. Or an embarassment to your community… As I felt when one of my mission companions used to say rude things about Catholics. Come to think of it, he also used to use that “truth” defense.

I do concede that some of the things that you say is true. Like the LDS hypersensitivity to rudeness and conflict. But that’s generally true of most consensus-driven societies.

TexanKnight is not an embarrassment to our community.

We all have our own style - it’s kind of like being a part of a big family with all kinds of personalities and temperaments. We are all on a journey trying to get closer to Christ.

I like the diversity here on CAF.

However, I always appreciate reminders to treat others with charity.

 

[kimg901]

Wow, TK is rude and an embaressment to our church on this thread too? To be fair, why dont you (Stone) do some fair research on the mormon religion before going back and see if what we are telling you is rude (if you already havent) Ask the One True Living God for guidance and the knowledge to discern truth from lies.

 

[KathleenGee]

E . Stone…

When someone has been abused by religion, especially from family members or loss of children, the pain is tremendous and traumatizing. It puts a bad face on God Himself.

We need faith in God, and when that relationship is damaged by scandal and abuse, it destroys the life of the person.

Very serious stuff.

Many who have been abused by clerics never get their life back in God…or those as well who were former Mormons.

 

[TexanKnight]

People who have called me rude have never been able to say specifically what I said that was rude.

I have been very honest and prayerful with what I say, but typing makes words harsher than spoken words sometimes. I am also a military officer and grew up in the country. We tend to be blunt and honest.

Despite my feelings about the LDS Church, I loved being LDS and loved being a missionary. I know how good it feels and how it can draw you in. I feel a special calling to help those in the Mormon Church.

I pray for all of us as we enter Holy Week.

 

[Marie5890]

E . Stone…

When someone has been abused by religion, especially from family members or loss of children, the pain is tremendous and traumatizing. It puts a bad face on God Himself.

We need faith in God, and when that relationship is damaged by scandal and abuse, it destroys the life of the person.

Very serious stuff.

Many who have been abused by clerics never get their life back in God…or those as well who were former Mormons.

Completely agree.

We have all seen the destruction caused by sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church and how it deeply wounds them. Scars them for life. The victims who have deep seated hatred, hatred, the real thing for the Catholic Church. Angry and bitter

It happens to Mormons and former Mormons as well. The deep seated wounds, scars. How they are left angry, bitter, deep seated hatred.

Crimes, regardless of the faith affiliation, are deeply traumatizing to the soul. It affects the prism they view their culture with, the prism of a faith, a church.

We should always be praying for the victims of crimes, esp when they are associated with a church.

Thanks Kathleen, for your post.

 

[Ezekiel_Stone]

lax16;:

the person might know that JS had multiple wives, some underage, and ask about that.

Not so long ago, that information was not available to the average person.

Also, listening to Catholic radio (especially Catholic Answers Live) has helped so many Catholics get up to speed on their faith that they are far more knowledgeable than ever.

You might want to check your fact on that one. What the age of consent was in the United States that time? LOL! Look it up. You would not believe me if I told you. It wasn’t unusual for 14 year old to get married. Blessed Mary herself might very well have been 14 when she married Joseph the carpenter. And it’s far from clear that miss Kimball actually married Joseph Smith, let alone if the marriage was consummated.

As any Catholic on the site really should know, the Internet is an amazing vehicle for spreading disinformation. Just on this site in the last 48 hours, I’ve seen some new member who claims to be a Catholic, starting threads like "have you heard that rumor that insert vicious calumny against the Catholic Church here] "

Sounds familiar? Do you seriously think that this only happens to Catholics? They do it to Mormons too.

 

[Ezekiel_Stone]

People who have called me rude have never been able to say specifically what I said that was rude.

Yes I have. I told you specifically that was rude, and unfair, for you to accuse me of insincerity, when I said nice things about the Catholic Church. The specific words you used were, “playing innocent”

I’m only responding to you now, because the last thing you said sounded really sincere. If you are willing to knowledge that perhaps you and I’ve had different experiences in the LDS Church, then I’d be happy to give you another chance. I can’t have a reasonable conversation with you, if you insist on calling me a liar it every turn. Thats not polite, or charity. If this was an LDS site, I would not let you get away with treating a non-mormon that way.

 

[RebeccaJ]

You might want to check your fact on that one. What the age of consent was in the United States that time? LOL! Look it up. You would not believe me if I told you. It wasn’t unusual for 14 year old to get married. Blessed Mary herself might very well have been 14 when she married Joseph the carpenter. And it’s far from clear that miss Kimball actually married Joseph Smith, let alone if the marriage was consummated.

As any Catholic on the site really should know, the Internet is an amazing vehicle for spreading disinformation. Just on this site in the last 48 hours, I’ve seen some new member who claims to be a Catholic, starting threads like "have you heard that rumor that insert vicious calumny against the Catholic Church here] "

Sounds familiar? Do you seriously think that this only happens to Catholics? They do it to Mormons too.

A married man in his thirties chasing after adolescent children is not comparable to anything that has to do with the Blessed Virgin Mary. You might want to rethink that.

 

[TexanKnight]

Yes I have. I told you specifically that was rude, and unfair, for you to accuse me of insincerity, when I said nice things about the Catholic Church. The specific words you used were, “playing innocent”

I’m only responding to you now, because the last thing you said sounded really sincere. If you are willing to knowledge that perhaps you and I’ve had different experiences in the LDS Church, then I’d be happy to give you another chance. I can’t have a reasonable conversation with you, if you insist on calling me a liar it every turn. Thats not polite, or charity. If this was an LDS site, I would not let you get away with treating a non-mormon that way.

Actually, you were never specific. You simply called me names and said very uncharitable things. That is ok…I expect it from Mormons when they do not wish to address the points.

I have never called you a liar, or anything else. I typically do not out up with that kind of dishonesty. You said you were going to ignore me. You didn’t. You are free to decide what to call it when someone declares something then does something different.

I will continue to be who I am. You are free to dispute my facts…or continue to attack me.’’

I will continue posting the truth.

 

[Ezekiel_Stone]

Actually, you were never specific. You simply called me names and said very uncharitable things. That is ok…I expect it from Mormons when they do not wish to address the points.

I have never called you a liar, or anything else. I typically do not out up with that kind of dishonesty. You said you were going to ignore me. You didn’t.

I did for a while. Then when other people explained it kind on that I had misunderstood you, i offered you another chance, and you set my olive branch on fire. Not very gracious.

Again .with the false accusation that I called you “names”?

 

[twopekinguys]

I did for a while. Then when other people explained it kind on that I had misunderstood you, i offered you another chance, and you set my olive branch on fire. Not very gracious.

Again .with the false accusation that I called you “names”?

So, calling him an “embarassment” is a term of endearment in your eyes?

I asked you this before, but I have not seen a response to it.

 

[lax16]

You might want to check your fact on that one. What the age of consent was in the United States that time? LOL! Look it up. You would not believe me if I told you.

It wasn’t unusual for 14 year old to get married. Blessed Mary herself might very well have been 14 when she married Joseph the carpenter. And it’s far from clear that miss Kimball actually married Joseph Smith, let alone if the marriage was consummated.

As any Catholic on the site really should know, the Internet is an amazing vehicle for spreading disinformation. Just on this site in the last 48 hours, I’ve seen some new member who claims to be a Catholic, starting threads like "have you heard that rumor that insert vicious calumny against the Catholic Church here] "

Sounds familiar? Do you seriously think that this only happens to Catholics? They do it to Mormons too.

Ezekial - What a great apologist you are! See how you took just one bit of info out of my post (and ignored the rest) and responded with an answer that redirects the blame off Joseph Smith? I actually added that little bit about JS to see if you would bite.
Joseph Smith always starts a lively conversation!

The Blessed Mother lived 2,000 years ago and JS lived less than 200. I don’t see the comparison.

By stating that the internet is an amazing vehicle for misinformation, are you claiming JS did not have multiple wives, at least one that was a young teenager? Or are you claiming
that I believe everything I read on the internet?

 

[lax16]

A married man in his thirties chasing after adolescent children is not comparable to anything that has to do with the Blessed Virgin Mary. You might want to rethink that.

See, this is why people can get angry at the Mormons!

To compare God’s choosing the Blessed Mother at the age of 14 to Joseph Smith marrying 14 years old is a new one.

 

[Ezekiel_Stone]

Ezekial - What a great apologist you are! See how you took just one bit of info out of my post (and ignored the rest) and responded with an answer that redirects the blame off Joseph Smith? I actually added that little bit about JS to see if you would bite.
Joseph Smith always starts a lively conversation!

The Blessed Mother lived 2,000 years ago and JS lived less than 200. I don’t see the comparison.

By stating that the internet is an amazing vehicle for misinformation, are you claiming JS did not have multiple wives, at least one that was a young teenager? Or are you claiming
that I believe everything I read on the internet?

Neither. Reread in contex of what i was responding to.

I’m confused. Are you blaming Joseph Smith, for letting miss Kimbal seal herself to him when he was dead even though she had been 14-15 when she knew him? Or are you balming him for living in states where the age of consent was 10? Either way it seems like a week argument.

 

[Ezekiel_Stone]

See, this is why people can get angry at the Mormons!

To compare God’s choosing the Blessed Mother at the age of 14 to Joseph Smith marrying 14 years old is a new one.

I said nothing about God choosing her. I was talking about when Joseph the carpenter married her. Please distort what I said. I was talking about her marriage; I was not the 1 with the other half the to bring up the Holy conception in this context. Remarks like that are the ones that make mormons feel that some of you hate us more than you love Jesus. And that is sad.

 

[Ezekiel_Stone]

So, calling him an “embarassment” is a term of endearment in your eyes?

I asked you this before, but I have not seen a response to it.

A misepresentation of what I said does not want a response. Is the other Peking guy in the house? I think I like him better.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I said nothing about God choosing her. I was talking about when Joseph the carpenter married her. Please distort what I said. I was talking about her marriage; I was not the 1 with the other half the to bring up the Holy conception in this context. Remarks like that are the ones that make mormons feel that some of you hate us more than you love Jesus. And that is sad.

Again, A married man in his thirties chasing after adolescent children is not comparable to anything that has to do with the Blessed Virgin Mary. You might want to rethink that.

 

[twopekinguys]

See, this is why people can get angry at the Mormons!

To compare God’s choosing the Blessed Mother at the age of 14 to Joseph Smith marrying 14 years old is a new one.

If you check his posting history, it is obvious he is not here for honest conversation. IMHO

 

[Ezekiel_Stone]

Again, A married man in his thirties chasing after adolescent children is not comparable to anything that has to do with the Blessed Virgin Mary. You might want to rethink that.

Ah now that is a valid argument. I was responding to the ignorant “14=underage” argument. If Joseph Smith did blust after teenage girls while married, that would be reasonable cause for concern. Or even cause for God taking him out of the picture prematurely, as he did Moses, after the rod incident.